Oakspear

Looks to me like Wordwolf's description is pretty accurate. Not the words Mike would pick, but accurate nonetheless. Mike does speak for himself, voluminously! The only difference with Wordwolf's description is that he presents Mike's position as a bad thing, while Mike would present the same position positively. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Regarding "Christ In You": Martindale taught that "Christ In You" was figure of speech because he was a literal man who could only be in one place at one time; the figure referred to us having the abilities, etc. of Jesus Christ. Don't know if Martindale's position accurately reflected Wierwille's teaching on this. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Yeah Steve!, that and ten bucks will get you into that bar we went to when I was in Chicago. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Tom's Bedtime CD Pick: Rick Wakeman's The Six Wives of Henry VIII. Very cool! I never got to see Wakeman live, the only time I saw Yes was when Wakeman was on the outs with the rest of the band during the Relayer tour and had Patrick Moraz on keyboards. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

The Moody Blues played here in Lincoln last month, about 2 blocks from my house, but I couldn't get tickets. I'm listening to Spirit right now, a "best of" called Time Circle. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Yana: Journey hit the top 40 with Mr. Perry, but they were definitely a better band before he showed up. Rolle and Shoen (sp?) were refugees from Santana, and it showed. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

I checked my phone book and there are some numbers written in red. Are these the phone numbers of Jesus? Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

So Wierwille had a recurring theme that there was a difference and opposition between the "spiritual" and the "five-senses". You think that this was hidden? I always thought this was pretty obvious after about a five minute exposure to anything he said or wrote. You don't need to examine lists of "code words" to figure this out, it's pretty plain. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

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Tomorrow night is open stage night at Duggan's Pub here in Lincoln. One of the benefits of having Tuesdays off is that I can stay out late and watch the incredibly talented musicians that live in this town. The focus is on the blues, but country, rock, reggae and whatever else you can think of can be heard. There's no cover charge and the beer is reasonably priced. Anytime any of youse are passing by this way, arrange your schedule to get here on a Monday night and we'll do Duggan's :D--> Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Tom's Bedtime CD Pick for tonight is the self titled premier album by Fine Young Cannibals. Great cover of Suspicious Minds. Roland Gift had quite the unique voice, but I don't know whatever happened to them. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Kathy: I agree with you about LCM not starting the ant-secular music thing, but I think there was an ambivalence about "wordly" music by Martindale and other top dogs in TWI. On the one hand you had Martindale talking about the hard-edged music that he listened to (mainly to have some common ground with his kids if I remember correctly); on the other hand you had teachings about "everything gives off something", and comments going back as far as Wierwille's Advanced Class about successful musicians being possessed, including Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart; on the gripping hand you had local Corps leaders interpreting and applying these "doctrinal" statements in the practical manner that fit with their own view of the bible. I never saw any real organized effort to eliminate secular music from wayfers' lives, but individuals did from time to time get on the Way Production-only bandwagon. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

I hope I'm not being shunned because of Black Sabbath :D--> !!!! Tom's Saturday night Bedtime CD Pick: Jeff Beck's Who Else Excellent instrumentals (what Jeff was always best at) Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

okay, sorry about the Black Sabbath thing :P-->, but I really do like the Volume 4 and Paranoid albums. Tonights Tom's Bedtime CD Pick: is The Allman Brothers' Eat A Peach no commentary needed :D--> Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Deception cannot, in my opinion be adequately confronted while remaining within the confines of TWI. I'm not talking about small-time, one-on-one issues, but the over-arching big-picture (I like hyphens this morning :D-->) issues that plague TWI. There are several reasons for this 1. The "leadership" community of TWI believes that they are the God-inspired arbiters of what is true and what is not, doctrinally and practically. Questioning the veracity of integrity of "leaders" becomes an offense and even a sin. Even when the pressure and control tactics are lessened, this ex cathedra world-view is still there. While some are using this mind-set to manipulate others, many "leaders"actually believe that this is true and godly. 2. There is a culture of "cover your own foot" is the upper echelons. The judge in the Allen lawsuit cited testimony that indicated that Rivenbark at least knew of Martindale's womanizing for at least five years. Admitting any errors is not in their best interest, legally or in the context of maintaining power. 3. TWI's core doctrine's promote an us vs. them view of everything. Questioning or confronting puts you firmly in the them camp. Many people have tried to confront doctrinal error, practical error, and abuses over the years. Some of those worked on a small, fellowship based problems, while others attacked the problems right in New Knoxville. Not a few of those people post here. I tried in my own small way. Can anyone thing of one person who has succeeded? Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

...of course, contrasted with gobbledy-gook of the best sort :D--> Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

I was amazed when I recently learned that Stiles wrote a book at all. He is presented in The Way, Living in Love as being a guy who happened to be at that conference in Tulsa who led Wierwille into speaking in tongues. Surprised I was to learn that parts of RHST is copied from his book. BG Leonard is another one. He is presented in TWI mythology as a guy who ran a class that was long on practical experience and short on the Word. We find out that parts of his books are copied directly into Wierwille's. So Wierwille kind of, sort of acknowledges these men, but not really. Then there's Bullinger. Wierwille refers to Bullinger all the time, he sold his books and commentaries in his bookstore, yet Wierwille claimed that he came to the conclusions that Bullinger did independently. What is funny sometimes about Wierwille's use of Bullinger is that he doesn't always understand Bullinger's point. He'll mouth something that Bullinger said to support a point, yet Bullinger was of an opposing opinion. Something that always puzzled me, but doesn't now, is the widely varying styles in Wierwille's different books. Some are relatively scholarly in tone, some sound like a C - minus seventh grader. Some contain copious notes and references, others just spout things that seem to come out of thin air. Some are logically put together, others are gobbledy-gook of the worst sort. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Tom's(no kidding)Bedtime CD Pick:Volume 4 by Black Sabbath Okay, Sabbath may not have been the best musicians out there, but Volume 4 had it's moments: Ozzie hadn't totally slid into the cesspool of drugs and alcohol yet, and there are some decent instrumentals; FX, Laguna Sunrise, St. Vitus Dance. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Socks: Rhodes et al were not part of Black Sabbath, but Osbourne's post-Sabbath band. Tony Iommi was Black Sabbath's only guitarist. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

chwester: Let's Spend The Night Together was by the Rolling Stones. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

The Music Thread Lives Again Tom's Bedtime CD Pick also lives again! :D--> ...they got music in their solar system...let's go space truckin'... Deep Purple's Boxed Set!!!!! Tonight I'm listening to disc 2: Space Truckin' Smoke On The Water Highway Star Fools Never Before When a Blind Man Cries Pictures of Home All cuts by Deep Purple mark II Ritchie Blackmore on guitar Roger Glover on bass Ian Gillan's vocals Drummer Ian Paice Jon Lord on keyboards Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

What is the sound of one baby clapping? The bathwater that you perceive is not the true bathwater. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

dia duit my sister Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Deep Purple: Smoke On The Water The Kinks: Lola Aaron Copeland: Fanfare For The Common Man Derek and The Dominoes: Layla Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

I also noticed that Ben Urich was a reporter for The New York Post rather than The Daily Bugle. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare