Oakspear

Gee, I'd hate to see this thread closed down In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

You have to stop and think? You don't know 'em all? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Lightside: Since we're talking about six months, I'm assuming that there is still no cancer. Great! In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Done playing with your new toy? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

If RFR was installed as President with any kind of ceremony, including the transfer of the mantle, it was not made known to the rank and file. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Hiya folks: No way did I expect this thread to go where it has, but I'm glad it did. Thanks to those who ripped the scabs off of the old wounds in order that the truth might be better or more widely known. I started it because there seems to be people out there who think that Martindale screwed up a good thing, that he messed up what the godly and venerable founder, our "father in the Word" started. As far as the moral foundation of The Way, it was a stinking swamp when Martindale got in, he didn't make it that way, but he did choose to perpetuate the stench. To think that Wierwille was running a clean operation is to ignore the testimonies of those who were abused. This thread isn't about the doctrine, but any of you who still run the old PFAL classes, how can you stand to hear his voice or look at his face? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Wordwolf: The mantle, aka the skunk pelt was placed on Martindale's shoulders by Wierwille at the "inaugeration and installation" ceremony in October 1982. It was part of a three-part symbolism that included oil, salt and the mantle. Martindale also exchanged an academic hood from KU for a Trustee hood to hang on the back of his clergy robe as part of the same ceremony In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Wasn't the "research" department out looking for all those "texts" and "originals" that Wierwille and Martindale were always saying backed up their opinions? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Socks, my man, you have got some good stories. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

tornadoes are caused by trailer courts In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

PFAL was well designed to lead you down the garden path of blind obedience. It was touted as "a class on keys", a way for you to be able to read and understand the bible without having to depend on what "Right Rev. so-and-so" said, or what was written in commentaries. But it was, in reality, an introduction to taking what Wierwille said as gospel. Oh, you didn't do that? You actually checked out those translations of Aramaic words and verified the translations according to usage? You found independent verification of his definitions of Greek words? Wierwille does a good job in spots, especially early in the class, of letting the bible speak for itself. He points out differences between the clear reading of the bible and what tradition teaches. He starts off by documenting biblically most of what he says. Little by little he starts moving away from that. While reading the King James, he continually tells us what the words really mean, and throws out definitions that occur nowhere else. Because he started out plainly reading what was written and taught us some pretty straightforward "keys", we swallowed what he taught without question. Whether or not you still like PFAL, whether or not you saw any good in it, whether or not you thought it accomplished a godly purpose, the PFAL class was designed to put you under a "spell", to captivate you and cause you to accept without critical thinking. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Hopefull: Personally, I get nauseous when I hear Wierwille referred to a "doctor". For me, it's bad enough when he's called "Dr. Wierwille", but when a hear a statement like.."when doctor said such and such"...it just turns my stomach In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Just Thinking: My point exactly :D--> Rafael: Shh...you'll wake him :P--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Yup, Martindale was an idiot who didn't have the watts to figure out that he could keep the TWI scam going if he came across as a "leader", rather than a tyrant. He foolishly and vainly thought that the skunk pelt and the acompanying spiritual claptrap would render him immune to any dissension. The lesson he learned from the Geer pseudo-coup was to be more of a jerk, not be more godly-seeming, as his mentor did. Wierwille, despite all the sexual abuse, lying, plagarism, behind-the-scenes politicking, bullying and whatever else, generally did not present himself publically like that. Wierwille crafted a persona that made it difficult to believe that he would do the things that he was accused of doing, Martindale's public persona created an atmoshere where we wanted to believe anything bad that we heard about him, his own public face made it that much more plausible. Wierwille got what he wanted by leveraging and manipulating, Martindale got what he wanted by bellowing orders and bludgeoning people over the head with TWI's version of God and his own MOGship. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Adam didn't speak English? --> When I read my bible it seems like he is. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

How come Elrond is the only Elf that's not pretty? :D--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

By the way, I didn't make up the skunk pelt thing. Another GSer, whose handle escapes me, did about two years ago. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

ExC: Well, there are sickos out there who might...it's happened. I don't know why, but some folks have been falsely accused before. Why someone would drag themselves through the mud like that is beyond me, but there have been instances. Frankly, if it was just one or two I might have retained my own doubts, but there are just too many to be the fantasies of a sick mind out to "get" Wierwille. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

SKUNK PELT!!!!! I just wanted to say that again :P--> :D--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

I don't take Wierwille's (or Martindale's) offenses against others personally, but I do take note. For years the only information that I had (or at least the large majority of it)about the first two Presidents of The Way International came from...(*gasp*)the first two Presidents of The Way! And, surprise! I didn't hear anything bad from them about themselves! Now I can balance that information with first-hand accounts of people who were abused by these two. In addition, I can see for myself the obvious plagarism, the outright lying, and the misrepresentations that both of these guys perpetrated. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

If what folks say about Wierwille is "rumors without evidence", Martindale falls into the same category, with one exception. He admitted to a "one-time consensual affair". In my opinion, Wierwille covered his foot better than Martindale did, he presented himself to the masses better, he played the role of our "father in the Word" to the hilt, and orchestrated things so that even questioning him became taboo. Martindale, evidently thought that the conferring of the skunk pelt :P--> gave him the same aura of holiness that Wierwille cultivated over decades. Martindale therefore made no effort to appear wise and loving; he was the MOG, so that was that. He did not "work the crowd" like Wierwille did, so he appeared as he was, a jerk. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Actually, Linda Carter, you're not answering my question. But that's okay, the question was mainly for folks who acknowledge Wierwille's sins but excuse them for one reason or another. So, that's the best you got? He's dead and can't defend himself? It's all rumors? Oh, and welcome to GreaseSpotCafe :D--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Let's see, how about multiple adulterous liaisons(sp?) and sexual abuse? First-hand accounts abound, here and on other sites, too many IMHO to be discounted. How about continuous lying about his credentials, background, specific incidents and supposed phenomena? How about egregious plargarism? Scan the site LC, incidents and supporting information abound.In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

I dare because I hold the whole concept of someone proclaiming himself to be The Man of God for Our Time in contempt, and the silly posturing and faux symbolism of the "transfer of the mantle" in equal contempt. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear