Oakspear

Of course TWI wasn't unique. But TWI is what we're talking about here :D--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Checked airline ticket prices today...found some good ones, so's I won't have to drive Oakmobile III to Chicago (a true WOWmobile) My girlfriend Susie will be accompanying me to keep me in line a make sure I shave for the ceremony! In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Jerry: It was my observation, and your incident bears this out, that tongues wasn't a "proof", or a "sign that it came from God" to unbelievers, but that it got their attention. It got my attention the first time; I thought it was cool. Peoples responses varied however. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

I have not told this story in quite a while, and not at all since leaving TWI, but here goes: This takes place several months after my WOW year ended. I was living in a Way Home, and there were several other Way Homes in town. One night, Joe xxxxx, who grew up with me in Rosedale, and lived with the Limb Coordinators, called all the men from the various Way Homes together for coffee at Village Inn. I believe that there were seven of us. He started off very seriously, telling us that we were getting legalistic and religious in our thinking, and we needed to do something to shake things up. He then paused, and said with a straight face that we should conduct a ?panty raid?. (I found out much later that this was actually the idea of the LC's wife) We decided to have the raid on the night before Halloween, a Friday night. Each of the Way Homes was co-ed; we convinced the woman that we lived with that we were having a ?guys? night out?. Two of the Way Home Coordinators were women at that time. The plan was that we would wait until all the women were asleep, burst into the house with a lot of noise and bright lights, tie the women hand and foot, and steal all their underwear. We didn't tie them very tight, and we did let them keep whatever underwear that they had on We all wore disguises of some sort: Zorro masks, bandanas, paper bags over our heads, plastic Halloween masks. We piled into Joe xxxxx?s Rambler station wagon and hit my house first. There were three women who lived there with two of us guys, me and Tim xxxxx. We were to split into two teams, Team One for Carol and Joan, who slept in one bedroom, and Team Two for Lisa, in the other room. My team burst into the first bedroom, where Carol and Joan put up a fight before being subdued. Carol two-fisted Doug xxxxx in the balls and he was limping the rest of the night. We found Team Two dithering at Lisa?s door. They had started to enter, only to find Lisa sleeping in the nude, and didn?t know what to do. Lisa was a gorgeous young woman, and as appealing as her naked body was, we remained gentlemen. We rolled her up in her sheets to cover her up, and wound the rope around the sheets. On the way out we hid all the phones so that they could not call ahead and warn the other Way Homes. We ran (or limped) out to the Rambler, dubbed the Zorromobile and headed to Mike and Chris? house across town. Only two women, Kathy and Rosemarie, lived at House #2. We unlocked the door and started hooting and hollering. We didn?t count on Nancy, who was the owner of this house, and a PFAL grad, stopping by for a visit and sleeping in the living room. Nancy was almost deaf, and couldn?t see very well either. We left her alone and moved into the bedroom, where we made short work of the women and captured the contents of their underwear drawers. Just as we were leaving, the phone rang. I answered. It was Carol! She had found the phone. We ran out to the Zorromobile and headed to Way Home #3. Steve and Doug, who lived at house #3, had forgotten their keys. All the doors were locked. We figured that they had been warned. This particular house set on a steep hill. It had only one storey and a basement, but since the hill sloped down from the front, the back of the house was two levels high, while the basement was at ground level. I was boosted on top of the garage, the top of which was right under the kitchen window, which was unlatched! I crawled in, and let the rest of the guys in. Laura and Kris, the two women who lived there, had locked themselves in the bathroom, along with their underwear drawers. Joe managed to pick the lock. We got inside, tied up the girls and made off with the underwear. As we were leaving, Kris called us back. ?You guys don?t think you?re leaving without a kiss, do you? she said. So we all lined up and each gave both of the women a kiss before driving out to a local hotel to hide out for the night. We returned all the undergarments the next morning. Most of the women thought it was pretty funny and began plotting their revenge. Carol, who was a Corps grad, thought it most certainly was not funny, but couldn?t get anyone to listen to her complaints. She even complained directly to Wierwille about a week later. They never did get their revenge! In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Oldies: Read the quote from my post in context of the whole post. This was a real instance that took place, not a fantasy. Perhaps you don't know that I was kicked out less than three years ago, long after your departure from TWI. While you and I and others perhaps could easily see that Wierwille, Martindale and others made mistakes, I don't recall too many incidents where they were admitted, at least not publically. Do you know of any significant instances where anyone corrected Wierwille and Wierwille admitted his error? And that person was allowed to stick around? You would never hear Wierwille (or Martindale) flatly say that they were never wrong, but the expectation was that you would follow them, right or wrong. Corrections, if any, were made quitly and behind the scenes. Admittedly, this escalated and was codified during Martindale's reign, but are you saying that Wierwille's teachings weren't the standard by which the bible was interpreted during his lifetime? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Ha! Got ya to look...thought I posted a wild story :P--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Apparently we're not a very wild bunch In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Yeah, funny, isn't it, Wolf. The infallibility thing was even more insidious. Very seldom would you hear anyone come right out and say that Wierwille or Martindale was always right, but that's what it amounted to. Even if the possibility of fallibility was brought up, only the MOG could decide if the MOG had been wrong. For example, just before I was kicked out, I had gone to one of the Trustees about doctrinal errors that I had seen. He referred me to my Region Coordinator. The RC gave a few examples of things that Wierwille had been wrong about and changed. When I responded with the observation that these errors were evidence that the current doctrine could be wrong, the RC told me that the Trustees would let us know if what they were teaching was wrong. This whole mindset is the very foundation for abuse. The whole concept that the leaders cannot be wrong, but if they are, they will let us know, is a blueprint for mind control. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Seems like we were just discussing this over in Doctrinal. :D--> I wonder if the apparent fact that some people spoke in tongues with ease, some had trouble and some admit to faking is because Wierwille's teaching that "anyone who is born again has the ability to speak in tongues" is wrong. It says that the manifestation (singular) of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal. Isn't "manifestation" synonymous with "evidence"? In other words, ever man will be given evidence of that holy spirit? Then verses 9 & 10 go through the "for to one is given..." and the "anothers". It took Wierwillian scriptural gymnastics to get those verses to say that everyone should speak in tongues, everyone should interpret, everyone should discern spirits, with his teaching that it really meant for to one (profit)...to another (profit)...to another (profit). Seems kind of a stretch. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Yeah, and nobody made the dogs pour their drinks out! In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

I'm not going to dispute whether speaking in tongues is or isn't real, but I don't believe that just because you do it and aren't consciously faking it, that's it's necessarily anything supernatural. People have been engaging in speaking in tongues, or, if you prefer, in something that to the observer looks remarkably like speaking in tongues, for a long time. It pre-dates Christianity, and still goes on outside Christianity. In TWI, and even in churches that elevate the importance of SIT, there is a great pressure to perform (SIT). There is nothing necessarily supernatural about being able to spout out a string of unintelligable syllables when under that pressure, or even when affected emotionally. Your brain will not freeze up when you tell yourself to speak in tongues even if God is not involved. As far as the interpretation goes, even if there is no conscious faking, it is not impossible to shoot out a quasi-biblical pronouncement if your mind is steeped in "The Word" day in and day out. Ever notice how, in general, interpretations were roughly equivalent in complexity to the level of bible (or Way doctrine) people had? Ever have someone in your twig who always said the same thing, or whose interpretation was painfully simple? Or reflected a misunderstanding of scripture or Way teaching? A few people brought up the practice sessions where you would start with the letter "A" and move through the alphabet. How many folks every thought that not every language uses the same alphabet, let alone the same sounds? How about starting a word with the letter ?, or maybe ÿ, or even ?. For a long time my tongue sounded vaguely Asian and contained sounds like pops and clicks. It was described once as a cross between a Thai sportscaster and a Klingon. Also the whole concept of deciding what sound to start a word in tongues in seems to go against the whole "God gives the utterance" concept. So didn't anyone who did this "fake it" by definition? This is not to say that any of you who speak in tongues are faking it or deluded or anything, just that there are alternate explanations. I think that it is possible to be not consciously faking anything without the result being anything supernatural. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Thanks for sharing ExC --> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Thanks Grizz, I will be sure to mention you in my next book as someone who had the basics, but needed me to "put it all together". In theory, there is no difference between theory and skunk pelts...but in practice there is Oakspear [This message was edited by Oakspear on January 06, 2004 at 1:58.]

Ttessa: I didn't say it was easy darlin', just disorderly and unstructured. :D--> and I'm all in favor of riding on someone else's success! In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Opinions that you are entitled to (not a complete list :D-->) The opinion that The Way was (or even still is) a godly organization The opinion that Wierwille was a good man who made some mistakes, but still taught us "The Word" The opinion that what you experienced in TWI was good, great, godly or "neat" The opinion that someone else's memories of the "good ol' days" is a delusion The opinion that someone else's opinion about the worth of Wierwille, PFAL, or TWI in general is WRONG remember, it's not a complete list :D-->In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

My use of the word "excuseable" had more to do with how people viewed the sins, rather than how God views the individual. It was my obsrrvation that some GSers, while ready to agree what an idiot, pervert, loud-mouth, etc Martindale was, seemed somewhat relucxtant to say or think anything negative about "Doctor". In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

...but we smoked and hugged in a most disorderly fashion :D--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

The above list is not meant to disparage the amount of work that the actual cooks put into things, THEY were organized! Oh, we also smoked cigarettes and hugged each other In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Tucket is correct, we are incapable of planning get-togethers! Perhaps congentitally! There have been informal GS meets here and there for the last few years, the biggest difference with the SCWR was that somebody named it! Some of you may be overestimating the amount of order and structure there was in the SCWR. Shell and Rascal told herbiejuan to set the date in the chat room 2.7 seconds later he had done so Somebody (I think herbiejuan) checked into cabin prices at Tim's Ford Those who wanted cabins either reserved them themselves, or hooked up with someone who did, likewise campers several folks volunteered to cook we showed up we ate we drank "adult beverages we ate some more we drank some more we ate the next batch we sat around talking and laughing in between and during the eating and drinking we went home In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Now all I need is a sycophant to mindlessly defend me In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

I thought "skunk pelt" had become a bona fide part of the GS lexicon, I was surprised that some thought I had originated it. Well, you unearthed my plagarism, what next, will you start doubting my doctorate? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Dr. Oakspear, BsD

Rush was the band that convinced me to stop going to concerts under the influence. I had seen them once during the 2112 tour, quite impaired. About a year later I took the subway directly from work to the venue, didn't have time to "impair myself". Nothing was available inside. I was amazed at how much better everything sounded without chemical enhancement. Thanks guys. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

There is unrest in the forest There is trouble with the trees For the maples want more sunlight And the oaks ignore their pleas In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

........... In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Didn't mean to sound anal, but this thread was really going places...how did it become a banned word experiment? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear