Oakspear

There are only six posts before yours. Its not like it's "THE" or a "Mike Thread". You could have read the whole thread in the time you took to type that you hadn't read the thread -->Responses make so much more sense when they are based on previous posts. But what do I know, I haven't even hit 3000 posts yet :D-->

I personally don't know who Jesus is. Was there a person whom the gospel accounts is based on? Pretty d*mn likely I'd say. Was he everything the gospels, let alone the epistles, said about him? Doubt it. I don't believe that it's "all or nothing" as Wierwille taught. I can't see it being all a fabrication, but on the other hand I haven't seen anything to convince me that's it's all godbreathed either. If I hadn't been born into a Christian family in a predominantly Christian culture, I probably wouldn't even be thinking about it.

Who we think Jesus is/was is linked for many of us to our TWI experience, thus "About The Way" is as valid a place for this thread (IMHO) as Doctrinal. Imbus is stating an opinion, inviting others to state theirs, and is not intent on starting a logical debate on "who is Jesus".

Do you really want to start making fun of peoples' grammar mj?

How about the whole WayAP class? (and wasn't it "Go until you hear glass"?)

Don't know any Irish folks...but it's good to see you posting again :D--> Tom Joyce ex-Nebraska WOW 1980-81 :D-->

Isn't there still disagreement about the length of Jesus' ministry? of course? Why? Where do you get THAT from? Resurrection = death + 3 days Ascension = resurrection + 40 days Pentecost = ascension + 10 days

Happy B'day...& hugs from Huggy :D-->

How about small meeting being run the same way one of the huge ones were? Do we really need ushers, parking attendants, a set-up crew, and a refreshments coordinator for a "branch" meeting that can barely scrape up twenty adults? Do we really need to stand and clap for the teacher when we can see him standing in the back of the (small) room the whole time? Are nametags really necessary when we're all in the same twig anyway and see way too much of each other as it is?

I actually left three times 1. In 1982 I married someone (another advanced class grad) who the Limb Leader did not approve of. Shortly thereafter the new LC, filled with stories of how we needed to be watched, pushed me too far one day and we had a yellin', cussin' argument over the phone. We then stopped going to Way functions. As far as I know M&A was not in force, since we still had cordial relationships with several "innies". We continued to believe what Weirwille taught and ended up getting back in at the end of 1990, missing all the excitement of POP and the "loyalty oath". 2. In 1996 or thereabout, the Branch Coordinator yelled at my then-wife over a trivial matter. I yelled back and was thrown out of his house. When we got home I told my family that no one has the right to yell at somebody's wife like that and I wasn't going to stand for it, wasn't going to apologize, so I wasn't going back. My then-wife sided with the BC. Rather than stand outside TWI without her, I went back. 3. About a year and a half after the A***n lawsuit the WayGB discovered that I was posting on GS. Shortly thereafter I was told that I "was not welcome at Way fellowships since I did not believe that the Trustees were leading the ministry in the right direction".

Because it was and is that bad

Happy Birthday!

I for one was not impressed. Nice action with Mr Hyde at the beginning, then a long boring stretch until more action. Yawn. The scene in the Vatican basement seemed really rushed. Did Hugh Jackman leave his personality on the X-Men set? Oh, and thanks for almost having Dracula explain why Van H is alive after 400 years and then NOT explaining it -->

You're right, Johniam, to an extent. The overall mood is that Wierwille & PFAL defenders get nuked here. I believe that this goes back to one of the points that I made in my initial post, that there are plenty of places to get "positives" about VP & PFAL. This is the "equal time". What is the purpose of this fellowship? I'm sure that it's different than the purpose of GS. It has been my observation that praise of VP or PFAL usually comes as a rebuttal of sorts to someone's bringing up a criticism. The general perception when that occurs is that the critic's veracity is being questioned or that the "evil" being discussed is downplayed. Yeah, folks will get a mite peeved when that happens! Another issue is that since we generally don't really know each other, we make pre-judgements based on what we have seen posted. Some posters get pigeon-holed and can't say anything without getting slammed. Of course, some posters richly deserve their reputation!

I was never in the Way Rag, but my ex-wife was in it in 1974: she was in the choir that year and there's a picture of her and the rest of the choir singing in pouring rain. There used to be a guy named Roger in our branch who came to Lincoln with the final wave of WOW's in 1993 or 1994. It seems like he was in about every issue for about a year: WOW pinning, Advanced Class, Word in Biz. Hope: You, a minor celebrity, were never in the Rag? Inconceivable!

It's not a complaint, it's a point of view. Is there anything in there you disagree with?

Are there no places that one could go to hear good things about The Way International? Of course there are such places: any TWI fellowship, branch meeting, publication, class, tape, or to their "International" headquarters. At these places, is it permissable to bring up any "negatives" about TWI? It wasn't when I was involved, less than three years ago, and I doubt it is now. Even at many "offshoots", one can hear TWI's founder and his teachings spoken of with respect. Is it arguable then that the "positive" side of TWI, Wierwille, PFAL, etc is not being presented? Of course not. Not only is the "positive" side of the story presented at TWI, but anyone who wants to suggest that there is a negative side is thrown out, or at least prevented from expressing their opinion. My point is that Grease Spot IS the equal time, balancing out what TWI presents. Why is it that this is so tough to understand? Why do some insist that what goes on here is a 24/7 hate-fest? Why do some insist that abuses that happened didn't really happen, or are minor compared to the "good"? Personally, there was plenty of good, many positive things that took place during my years in TWI. I met lots of good people and had good times. The "keys" in PFAL helped me to understand the bible and make my own decisions. Getting involved in TWI when I did possibly diverted me from problems with drugs and alcohol. So why do I not focus on the good times, the godly aspects of TWI, the "positive"? Because I'm not here to talk anybody into affiliating with or getting involved with TWI. If someone wants to hook up with TWI they'll hear enough reasons to do so from active wayfers. For me, the bad outweighed the good in TWI. If what I write here convinces ONE person to stay away from TWI, then I consider it worth the effort. I don't expect the Wierwille and PFAL fans to let up. Actually, I find that the opposing (i.e. pro-Wierwille) point of view helps keep us sharp, helps us to better and more eloquently phrase our arguments. And to the newbies who are "innies" or sympathetic to TWI, try to get a feel for who we are and why we post what we do before you make your judgements. We've been where you are.

Okay, you be cheery, I'll kick your foot, it'll be all feng shui :D-->

You really wanna know? When ya get done PTing Dougie, call me. My name is in my profile, and my number is the phone book. Or do you really just want to criticize us?

Hey Sudo, you be cheery, I'll be grumpy, it will be a well balanced room :D-->

Me! Me! Me!Heck, I think we all were told that, more so as the years went by and more people were coming up with stuff that contradicted Wierwille. Ticked me off too, especially since reserach doesn't mean "search again". Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary Main Entry: 1re·search Pronunciation: ri-'s&rch, 'rE-" Function: noun Etymology: Middle French recerche, from recerchier to investigate thoroughly, from Old French, from re- + cerchier to search -- more at SEARCH 1 : careful or diligent search 2 : studious inquiry or examination; especially : investigation or experimentation aimed at the discovery and interpretation of facts, revision of accepted theories or laws in the light of new facts, or practical application of such new or revised theories or laws 3 : the collecting of information about a particular subject

I saw another, different trailer over the weekend...they're torturing me!!!

That worked for me too w1, when the problems were between me and another local wayfer; the problems came about when I had issues with what was being taught at the highest levels, or with actions "leadership" took. It was a different story then.One of the things that is evident here is that we all experienced different TWI's in greater or lesser degree, depending on where we were and who our "leaders" were. Check out the threads that deal with TWI doctrines too, very interesting.

Sudo: I'd be honored to room with you again if you'll have me :D-->

Other than your post quouted here oldies, the resposnses were all civil and welcoming. Once again, you are revealed to be full of carp