Oakspear

How did he have time to do all the stuff mentyioned in his resume while he was a "full-time minister" for TWI?

One can believe in God without viewing the bible as literal

Sudo is using the hair dryer to keep the fire going! I'm not sure whose idea that was --> The guys look old because we are :D--> - and the women always look young and beautiful, no matter what their birth certificates say. Names with the "official" pics: The guy in the black t-shirt, whose hairline is headed north, glasses & moustache is me (starting with the first pic) The sweetheat in the grey t-shirt is rascal The other sweetheart in the burgundy t-shirt is wwjesuslaughat The next two pics of the guy who also has a northward heading hairline and glasses, with the grey sweatshirt is our benevolent dictator, Herbiejuan Next is Sudo, "fanning the flames" Herbal giving Sudo rabbit ears Sudo at the falls The third sweetheart with blonde hair is AHAT other than the really tall redhead (Cameron son-of-Herbal) the other kids are either rascal's or a friend of rascal

I arrived home about 2:30 this afternoon, but had to drop off the roaster and coffee pot at work and of course stopping off to see my beloved reikilady was on the agenda! Then there was laundry and tallying up the debit card receipts...well, I'm home safe and sound...and this year's winner of "The Weenie Who Travelled the Farthest" :D--> dmiller, I don't know about that weather report, but we had pretty much constant rain, but plenty of fun anyway! When I get my pics developed, I'll send them to Sudo for posting. One thing you can't see on the back of rascal's RV is that it says "Rascal and the 14th Tribe! - in case ya hadn't figggered it out, all but two of the young'uns are hers (and one of those is a friend of her son's) This year's roast wasn't as "wild" as last year's, but I had a blast. The smaller group made for a more intimate setting, and allowed more heart-to-heart conversations. Sudo, as usual, was an excellent room mate, and I got to talk quite a bit more with Herbal and Rascal than I did last year. I was pleasantly surprised that AHAT was there, and it was a treat to meet wwjesuslaughat. I'm kinda tired, but I plan on posting some thoughts tomorrow. Oh, and Song: you would not have been too much ;)--> - hope to see ya next year.

I'm leaving for the Weenie Roast in an hour, so you're all going to have to carry on without me :P--> To expand on my position: it's not that there weren't good things in the 70's and bad things in the 90's in TWI. Certainly there was. I contend that it was merely a difference in degree, not a basic, fundamental difference; that the obvious legalism and top-down control under Martindale had it's roots with Wierwille. There was little that Martindale taught that didn't have it's origin in Wierwille's teaching or example. I think it is a mistake to view TWI as two distinct entities: TWI-1 and TWI-2, as if there were little or no bad in the TWI of the 70's and no good in TWI of the 90's. And don't forget that TWI had been incorporated for close to twenty years when a lot of us got involved in the mid-seventies. (I'm assuming a 1955 incorporation - not sure if that's correct). How many folks (or perhaps more significantly, what percentage) bailed out in the fifties, the early sixties, or early seventies because of the changes that they perceived? A final thought: I believe that we should all (myself included ) beware the thinking that the time that we left was the best, the most obvious, when things really turned ungodly, as if all that left before us were cop-outs or "carnal", and those that left after us were idiots who couldn't see how bad things were. Have a good weekend!

I'll be leaving in a bout an hour - I've got everything packed except the ground sausage & peppers (keepin' 'em in the freezer as long as possible) Rekilady's coming over to say goodbye :D--> pretty soon, then it's ROAD TRIP!!!!

Radar: Disagreeing is good...I know you and I can do so without being rude to each other and maintaining respect. One of the reasons why I believe that, at least on the local level, there appeared to be love of God and "moving the Word" in TWI-70's, was that the control mechanisms were not keeping up with the rapid numerical growth. When I left New York in August 1980 there were nine or ten full size branches operating in what was known as Area (later Territory) One, which was Long Island, including Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island. There was a huge number of people, and the only Way Corps for all these people were J*ff & D**n* T*ler, the Area Coordinators. Every branch coordinator was non Way Corps, many of the twig leaders were not even advanced class grads. People did what they thought God wanted them to do, not because that was the policy of TWI, but because TWI didn't know what they were doing. The mass exoduses of the late 80's made it easier for the top to control the bottom, not because the policies had changed, but because the ratio of leaders to non-leaders had shifted. I think that it's evident that the intent to control was always there, but it took a while for the means to do so caught up.

wwjla: check! bow: thanks, I'll bring a few of my CD's, including one by Billy Falcon's daughter

Was there a difference between TWI-1 and TWI-2? Even using those terms assumes a major difference between one era and another in the history of The Way International. Most advocates of a "bad" TWI-2 and a "good" TWI-1 point to Martindale's unfitness as a leader and the negative changes that he brought to "the ministry". I say that the only differences were that Martindale was more open about his position, and may have actually believed that he was the "Man of God", yet was incredibly inept. Wierwille on the other hand was a master at working a crowd, and had a benign, fatherly public persona that he kept in the forefront, while his meaner, more controlling attributes stayed in the background. Did Martindale ask, rather demand, for the Way Corps to pledge their loyalty to him? Didn't Wierwille expect the same, but was too smart to foolishly put it in writing? Did Martindale run off those who disagreed with him? Didn't Wierwille dissolve the original Board of Directors in the fifties because they weren't a rubber-stamp committee, instead setting up the Board of Trustees, consisting of his brother and his buddy Ermal? Everything that Martindale did, he learned from his teacher, Wierwille. Many of you claim that there were good times during what you call TWI-1, while there are others, from that same period who were getting ready to run for the hills because it had already gotten so bad, even in the mid seventies. On the other hand, you can find people from the "evil" nineties who thought things were pretty good then. Memories of "good times", while true, exist amidst an ignorance of the rot that had always been there.

Is anybody bringing a CD player?

TWO (although I'm leaving tomorrow)

THREE

Well, he did ask what your opinion of VPW was, or do you know anybody else being discussed on this site with the initials VPW?, or maybe you have a problem with initials in general. Or perhaps he didn't "respectfully" put the "doctor" in there. Yippee! We have another drive by prophet! By the way, WordWolf showed plenty of respect in his reply to you, more than you have showed to him in your last post. Wait! I thought you said that WordWolf didn't rate an answer --> I lovingly and respectfully disagree - you were nasty.

Hey Radar, don't lump Martindale in with us heathens! ;)--> Makes us look bad :D-->

Oh, and I just noticed on their home page it says "Fellowships throughout the United States...didn't they used to claim it was in all fifty states?

Didn't Karen Martin edit her mom's book?

Martindale started using "prevailing" in the nineties, it's true, but that decade was called something else, "The Decade of Victory" maybe, I forget, but the current decade was dubbed "The Decade of Prevailing" just before the dumbfoot was ousted. "Building Biblical Understanding"? What a joke

Rascal: Check your private topics please dmiller: It's not to late to be a weenie bro' :D-->

Okey dokey...we'll meet at Sudo & Oak's at the inn and go from there :D-->

Purty close. ;)--> It's _conducive_. Back off miller, you're not a weenie :D-->

maybe we should use your cabin as the hang out...as long as your gonna be awake. :D--> it may be more condusive (is that spelled right?) to the opening festivities. That is if you're gonna be there early too. Watcha think? Sudo & I will still provide the eats (and coffee)

chaos - ya gotta love it...and it beats stringing chairs

We did some checking: Sudo and I will be in the inn, not a cabin. We both plan on having the means to keep the stew hot. I guess everyone can check at the inn for us when you get there - maybe we can leave a message at the desk. Herbal, on one of the other threads you mentioned arriving by 3 as well, where are you staying? Can you all sound off on who is staying where? Rascal, you're at the campsite, right? Rascal & tribe: campground Oakspear & Sudo: da inn Herbal: ? WWJLA BOWTWI & princess maybe Krysilis - Rascal - I'm still taking care of palsticware, including plates, cups, bowls, spoons, forks, trash bags etc, as well as a roaster full of sausage and peppers & onions

Did we take ourselves too seriously? - During one of the score of classes I was in we developed a small problem with the audio tape; I foget exactly what it was, but the class coordinator decided that we needed to switch tapes. At that time we always kept a backup tape running in sync with the main tape, so we had one ready to go. The head honcho decided that he could not wait until the end of the segment, a mere five minutes away, nor did he want to just pop the tape out and switch 'em. Noooo...the tape was running on a small tape player plugged into the main sound system, and the backup was running on a similar tape player. What he decided to do was have two of us crawl under the table where the tape player was located - one of us poised to yank out the original player, and the other ready to immediately plug the second in...all of this to happen on an extended VP dramatic pause that Mr. Spiritual knew was coming up (he'd taken PFAL quite a few times) Amazingly enough, it worked perfectly, and no one knew what had happened! But looking back I marvel at how we took a simple procedure and turned it into the Allied landings on D-Day.

ONE WEEK When Sudo & I figure out exactly where we are you all will be the first to know ;)-->