Oakspear

Yup Shaz & Cat...my position exactly!

Only went after '78, so it was all at New Knox for me. I hotelled it a few times, that was comfortable, but I didn't like being away from the "action". Never RVed Tents were okay when I was young and single, but hell when I had young kids with me

Nooooo smart guy ;)--> The larger one is a Boy Scout emblem and the smaller a Webelos pin. Although you can't see it in the picture, on my right hand is a silver ring with leaves and a dove in the center that I bought at the ROA in 1979. The chain around my neck is holding up a Celtic knot design that represents the three aspects of the goddess. :D--> Oh, Mr. Dictator: Can we move the Roast back to September? The folks who requested October didn't come...I have inventory the 1st weekend in October and am working at Mystic Fest the 2nd weekend

Well, I found it a welcome challenge to particiapate in discussions without going into agnostic mode. But I hope some of those who left GS will come back & play with us some more

Whether anyone can produce the quotes or not, I remember Rascal being called a liar and full of crap. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Hey Rascal...looks like you've hidden your goat...it doesn't look like he's getting it!

FRom The Cult That Snapped, pp124-125, by Karl Kahler.

dmiller: Can you provide an example of what a "politically correct" monument might be?

Oh good, cuz two failed efforts would have established it, doncha know.

So...there were two "failed" efforts -->

...other than in someone's dreams and imagination

Can anyone name just one poster who has rejected "The Word" because of VP's sins? Or even has rejected any of what TWI taught (true or not) because of Wierwille's sins? I suspect that such a person does not exist.

No one stole me...TWI set me out on the curb.

I was referring to the one VP allowed to stay and graduate, with Del & Nancy D. Pat Lynn? That's the first time that I ever heard a name of anyone in the so-called "zero corps". For those of you who missed the Way-nineties: by 1995 or so there was no one left from the First Way Corps who was still standing with The Way. There was only LCM from the Second Way Corps. At the final ROA Martindale christened some of the "old-timers", Don Wierwille, the Trustee wives, maybe the Georges as "THe First Corps" in recognition of...well in recognition of something or another.

Where do these myths and religious urban legends come from? I saw the story that is recounted on the link you provided over at Living Epistles. It didn't ring true, but I didn't have any evidense for or against. While most of the Founding Fathers were members of mainstream Christian churches, there were a distinct minority who were Deists or humanists. One hardly has to invent alleged sayings of the founders to support the contention that most of them were Christians. Remember that within the context of the 1780's, religious diversity meant various Protestant sects, Jews and Catholics were barely tolerated, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists were virtually unheard of and the native religions were being wiped out along with their adherants. Times have changed. And it's not just a matter of the "evil" atheists and secular humanists trying to eliminate God from government, but recognition that an ever-growing percentage of our people are not Christian.

skyrider: According to Mrs. Wierwille's book Born Again to Serve there was a Board of Directors made up of a variety of PFAL grads and leaders in the early days of The Way. They were not a bunch of rubber-stamping yes-men, so Wierwille eliminated them in favor of the easier-to-control three man Board of Trustees. Wierwille is quoted in the book as saying that the board was not set up to argue with him, but to support him.

Oldiesman: Your whitewashing and denial of evil does God a disservice. We can all see through your pretended inability to understand others' positions (nobody is that stupid). You have learned well the lessons of your idol.

Wierwille & his flacks often said that the money from the classes was to "build committment" and that during the time when there was no fee, people wouldn't stay committed. So? Are we really responsible for what people do with what we teach them? Was it God's will that we get people committed to an organization?

Bzzzzzt! Wrong answer....thanks for playing :D-->

Who makes the decisions that underlie all of The Way International’s doctrines and practices? The Board of Directors. What gives the Board of Directors the authority to make those decisions? The fact that they are the Board of Directors, the implication being that somehow God is behind their appointment and backs up their pronouncements. Verses about following leaders without “murmurings and disputings”, and “not resisting the power” are invoked to prop up this position. Therefore whatever Rosie and the boyz decide is exempt from discussion by the unwashed masses because they are, by definition, right in what they do and say. The current Board of Directors has decided that some things are going to change now that bad ‘ol Craig is gone. The implication is that there were problems, but that everything is fine now. The problem with that position is that if the current B.O.D., by virtue of merely being the B.O.D. is unquestionably right and above argument, then that would apply to the previous B.O.D., including the President, the aforementioned ol’ Craig. Wow! What a pickle. They had to change some things, for legal reasons, and to keep some members, but they can’t come right out and say that Craig and the former B.O.D. were WRONG, because that would open up the possibility that the current B.O.D. could be wrong also. But if the former Prez wasn’t wrong, why is he no longer the Prez? Are there really still innies who don’t see this contradiction?

Eagle: I believe the First Way Corps was nine or ten, the Second about the same.

I heard former Judge Roy Moore on the radio today saying the issue wasn't the ten commandments, but the sovereignty of God.

Oldiesman: Your whitewashing and denial of evil does God a disservice. We can all see through your pretended inability to understand others' positions (nobody is that stupid). You have learned well the lessons of your idol.

One of the reasons (IMHO) that we are now on the third (or "THRID as some would spell it :P-->) annual weenie roast is that we don't have an agenda or any planning other than where to meet. We just show up with food and drink and do whatever we want, which is eat, drink, and TALK!!!! The Weenies are together almost constantly for two days, which gives us plenty of time to have real conversations, rather than just small talk. We can compare our Way and post-Way experiences, viewpoints, spiritual journeys. The natural beauty of the park itself was worth the price of admission as well. Although my calves are still recovering from the two hikes to the falls, I wouldn't have missed them for anything (including scrambling back up on wet stoines in the dark ). Rascal and I both got to "mother" each other ("be careful, Oak" - "stop and rest Rascal" :D-->) As the group started up after our second trek, I lingered behind to spend a solitary moment drinking in the energy and communing with the divine, standing with my arms spread and eyes closed atop a big rock, when I opened my eyes there was Herbal joining in the experience! More of the divine packed into that moment than twenty years of twigs! Start planning now for Weenie Roast IV

Any doctrine worth following is worth investigating and verifying for oneself. For me, the evidence of VPW's sins made it more imperative for me to do that investigating and verifying. The sins themselves did not invalidate anything he taught, but they provided an impetus to look at them a little more closely. Wierwille's sins did not make his teaching void in my mind, but they did cause me to reject taking his word on anything. If it was truth I'd find out through another source, not just because VP said so. I can't think of anyone here who suggests renouncing or rejecting PFAL or any other TWI teaching simply because the teacher was flawed.