Oakspear

Just because the same word is used literally in one place, does not eliminate the possibility that it is being used figuratively elsewhere. There is no contradiction between pater being used literally of God's relationship to Jesus and figuratively of the Pharisees' relationship to the Devil. TWI put a lot of emphasis on what Greek or Hebrew word was used, as if there could be no nuance of meaning, or more than one meaning of the same word. I recall teachers in TWI breathlessly pointing out that the word "love" in a certain verse was agape, as if it was significant...duh! Almost ALL the occurences of "love" in the KJV are translated from agape!

All that this verse says that if we fullfil a condition, i.e. confessing our sins, he will forgive those sins. It does not say that if we don't confess our sins he won't or can't forgive them. Although it pains me to agree with the head brownie-eater himself, one exception to the theory that forgiveness is available only to those who ask for it pretty much disproves it as a rule.

They referred to the apostles remaining in Jerusalem when the rest were scattered after Stephen's death. But they ignored Peter's travels outside Jerusalem, even though he appears to be the leader. They also refer to James & the other elders being in Jerusalem when Paul came there for the Passover, apparently in a position of leadership. Practically, I think that in the 21st century they need some kind of "headquarters" to function as an organization, if only for legal and administrative purposes. Before The Way got very big "headquarters" was simply where Wierwille lived. That it was on a farm with lots of open land, suitable for building, made it easier to expand than had they been in an apartment in Payne or Van Wert.

Mine also!Of course the cat dropping the body part onto the barge was great

If someone were pronounced dead and verified to be so by competant medical authorities, beyond a shadow of a doubt...and he was raised from the dead...all of this witnessed by disinterested observers/witnesses...sure, I'd believe it. If somebody told me that he'd heard about somebody raising somebody else from the dead, but was light on specifics, and there was no observer/witness without a vested interest in the story being true, sure I'd be doubtful. Most (if not all) stories and incidents about supernatural occurences occur away from any means of impartial verification. Doesn't mean that they're not true, it means that telling the story, or even believing it doesn't make it true.

Radar: I know what you mean, it kind of depends on your job whether or not you can pull it off though. For thirteen years, ending in 1999, I was a sales rep, and regional sales manager for a newspaper. My staff and I were given goals. My directors did not care if it took me seventy hours each week to achieve the goals, they had no sympathy whatsoever. On the other hand, if I could achieve the same thing in twenty hours, they had no problem with that either. Generally I was given the territory-from-hell after a succession of bad reps, with the mandate to clean it up. After a few weeks of litle sleep and many meals eaten from behind the wheel of my car, I got it in order and could work a much shorter week. I believed in efficiency and delegating. My current job is assistant manager for a largish grocery store. I am as skilled at delegation, and as efficient as ever; but no matter how quickly I get my projects done, I am expected to "put in my time" at the store. This makes sense, since there are always customers in the store that need attention, care and feeding. Even though I can't leave early, getting all my tasks done early in the day or week, makes for less stress the rest of the time.

Galen: Do you have some information that William Samarin is not a linguist or that there was anything wrong with his study? The reason I am asking is that you put quotes around linguist and studied - doing that indicates skepticism about the words enclosed in quotes. How about speaking in tongues for George's son? I'd pay for the phone call.

Use the Doctrinal Forum, it's not being used for doctrinal discussions much these days

As usual, no discussion from the guy who posted the link; kind of reminds me of the recorded political phone calls I find on my answering machine every day.

The fool hath said in his heart "there are no brownies"

Now not everything that Wierwille bakes is necessarily a brownie

And we ceased, saying, the brownies of the Lord are done

...now any brownies that were baked aforetime were for our learning...

Apollos, the great brownie-tongued orator...

The recipe for the brownies is as much the brownies as the brownies are the brownies

Greeeeeeaaaaaaat are the brownies of the Ephesians...greeeeeeaaaaaaat are the brownies of the Ephesians...

That's right, you move your lips, your throat, your tongue...eat the wonderful brownies of God

What was Paul's thorn in the flesh? Why it was brownies peepul...

Maybe because Jesus was sent to Israel while Paul was a minister to the gentiles?

I've gotten to the point that I'm not overflowing with venom every time I discuss Wierwille, Martindale or The Way. I don't plot the destruction of Way HQ or fantasize about assasinating Way leaders. I could probably be civil to any of my former "overseers" if I ran into them at the mall. Is that forgiveness? If so, then I've forgiven. However, I think that the premature deaths of the Wierwilles: Vic, Harry and Don was karma in action, and I'm glad that they didn't enjoy long healthy lives. My primary Way Corps tormenter during the nineties is also dead...and I'm happy about it. He got what he deserved. Would I shed a tear for my former fellowship coordinator who was instrumental in destroying my family if he was the recipient of some form of destruction? Nope. Does this mean that I haven't forgiven? If any one of those who hurt me and mine simply said "I'm sorry, I was wrong", I'd embrace them and put their actions out of my mind.

Hey, I've seen Rascal get emotional...this ain't it :P-->

...it's brownies in you, brownies in you, BROWNIES in you, the hope a' glowry...what chocolate we have...if we only knew it

...this class will be for you a safe brownie in the sea of Krispy Kreme doughnuts...

Sky: I own one side of the brownie and am thinking about buying the other side...I can lick any brownie in town tonight!

thanks dmiller yes ala, he attended something, there was a pic in the Way Mag of Wierwille & his wife as well as the Limb Coordinator of DC and his wife all dressed up standing out on a lawn in DC somewhere.