Oakspear

The very first to go was that the "original sin of mankind" was that the Devil had lesbian sex with Eve; I don't think that I ever 100% bought into it though! A lot the first batch of things to go were from Martindale's WayAP class. He had a whole segment on the "Face of the Deep" where he goes on about how the Devil and his angels, after being kicked out of heaven, went to the edge of the universe, the face of the deep, where the waters that supposedly surrounded the universe where, and due to the Devil & his minions being bereft of light and light being a form of heat, the waters were frozen. This was supposedly what really" happened between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2. While I was still "in" I did a teaching about the so-called gap at fellowship one night. I don't remember what the details were or if it's even "right", but it was completely at odds with what Martindale taught. After I was done, several people remarked that it made sense and that they hadn't really understood what was taught in WayAP. I guess other than Martindale's wacky stuff the things that went first were the belief that The Way had any claim to be God's ministry or a source of truth, that leaders of The Way were God's spokesmen, that the keys to research were any guarantee to reaching the truth, that I needed a "ministry" to get me closer to the divine... The rest were just details...

It's a good example of residual waybrain in action that I was momentarily surprised at your initial post. Even though I have long since put Way doctrine and loyalty for the organization behind me, I still thought that they did a good job of "stewardship". Thanks for the behind-the-scenes info

Yes I do

I was unaware of the adultery and most of the "big" issues that get discussed here while I was "in". Most of the crap that I put up with was more along the lines of big egos, hyper-control of our lives by leadership, the yelling etc. That kind of stuff often changed when leadership did. I, like so many others, rationalized leaders' behavior, "reasoning" that a little yelling, or writing up a schedule was nothing compared to "Da Greatness of Da Word". For a lot of people, being in TWI was a classic abuse situation. Why do people stay with abusive spouses? Why do people stay in jobs that they hate? Why do people do any number of things that they don't like, or know is wrong? It's not logical, it's not reasonable, but there you have it. There's always something, whether it's fear of the unknown, a conviction that you'll be alone/be unemployed/be outside God's protection or just ignorance that keeps one in a bad situation. For most, however, there's a final straw, a tipping point, where the imagined benefits are outweighed by the negatives and out you go. Good for you that you supposedly never fell for the bull and that it was all so obviously wrong to you. Pat yourself on the back and buy yourself a drink.

I didn't discover the plagiarism until much later.Martindale's admission (after being confronted with a lawsuit) of adultery made me want to investigate everything that he taught. My thinking was that if someone was so screwed up that he couldn't tell that something so glaringly obvious as screwing another man's wife was wrong, how could we assume that he had the soundness of mind to put together a set of teachings (the WayAP class) that was to be the foundational teaching for The Way? Before this, I was troubled by many practices by The Way's leaders, but was willing to put up with what I saw as human frailties in order to have access to "the greatness of The Word". I began a systematic study of Martindale's WayAP class page by page in the syllabus and found enough glaring errors and inconsistencies to fill ten closely typed pages. I did not compare what he taught to mainstream Christianity, but used the standards of study and biblical research that had been taught in The Way for decades. In my opinion, what he was teaching just did not hold up to careful scrutiny. Eventually I began to look at some of what Wierwille taught, mainly in places where Martindale quoted him or used one of Wierwille's doctrine's without any change and found some of the same inconsistencies and errors as well. I brought these questions and concerns to Way leadership and was rebuffed and with the doctrinal underpinning eroded, I was no longer so accepting of bad behavior in the name of 'The Word' - my loyalty to the organization evaporated and I was eventually banned from contact with TWI.

Not really. I was in full waybrain mode back then. Even though I was not active I was still clinging to Wierwillian doctrine. My kids are pretty smart, they figured it out for themselves. In some ways I was relieved; I wouldn't be living the "double life" that I had been living for the previous two years. What cracked me up about the whole phone call was the wording. TH never came out and said "We are excommunicating you for posting on Greasespot" or anything like that. His exact quote was "You are no longer welcome at Way fellowships due to the fact that you do not believe that the Trustees are leading the ministry in the right direction". Really? Then he started to give me instructions on things he wanted me to do, including having my wife call him later that day. My response was along the lines of "yeah, sure". He then told me that my reply did not convince him that I would do what he asked. I answered by telling him that he had just given up any authority he had over me and that I was under no obligation to convince him of anything.

I actually left twice. The first time was in 1983. I had gotten married in 1982; the leadership wasn't happy with this because I was "supposed to" go into the 13th Corps. I was unable to get enough sponsorship money, so I didn't make it into residence. The woman that I had been dating and I decided to get married rather shooting for the 14th Corps. She was "supposed to" move into a Way Home with a married couple (she had 2 kids of her own). She and I talked to the couple about all 4 of us moving in together instead. The husband didn't like that idea because he didn't want to have to compete with another man as head of the household (I swear - his words). So we got married; the leadership refused to perform the wedding ceremony. Soon after this I lost my job and was unemployed, other than temp work, for about 4 months. The leadership gave us a lot of grief about it and we walked. In 1990, as our children started reaching their teens, we decided that we wanted them to sit through PFAL. We started attending some Way functions and got sucked in, somewhat oblivious to what had gone on in TWI during the second half of the 80's. As the 90's went on, lots of red flags, lots of problems, but we were convinced, like so many others that there was no where else that "The Word" was being taught, so we toughed it out. My wife and I also began to have marital problems (some Way-related, some not) that culminated in us being put on the infamous 6-month probation in 1999. We were reinstated into active participation in late 1999, less than six months before the lawsuit was announced and all the attendant craziness. In response to being told to not look for information about The Way on the internet, I looked for information about The Way on the internet. I spent a year researching Martindale's foundational class segment by segment and found numerous errors and began to find errors in Wierwille's work as well. Little by little, the faith that I had in the truth of what TWI taught was undermined. With the supposed foundation eroded, I no longer had an patience for the wrong practice that was widespread. I started posting on Waydale & Greasespot. I did not want to leave without my wife, still holding out hope that we could rebuild our marriage and get out together. So I kept a low profile, taught at fellowship and maintained an outward facade of being a wayfer. The last straw though, was after a phone call from John Reynolds, where he directed me to my region coordinator Tom H******* in order to get some questions answered. Reynolds said that Tom H had been working the Word in preparation for teaching WayAP live and would be able to answer all my questions. hen I approached TH he said that he had no need to work the Word, that if the class was good enough for the Trustees it was good enough for him. Eventually I was caught by the WayGB and told by TH (by phone) that I was no longer welcome at Way functions.

I consulted a labor lawyer. It is legal for a company to require this for salaried employees, which I am. And no, I cannot afford to loose my job over this.

Ten years ago...wow...when Grease Spot opened it's doors, I was an "innie"...reading Waydale & Grease Spot in the dark of the night...

I'm one of those so-called "unbelievers"...anything you want to address to me specifically ?

On Thursday I received a letter signed by the President of our company telling me all about how our company would be sponsoring a big event by a non-profit group taking place in our city. The letter went on to say that any salaried managers who volunteered for an 8-hour shift would be given a 1/2 day off as an incentive. So far so good. Page two began with the sentence "Only those on vacation for the entire week of this event will be excused from volunteering". So it's not volunteering, it's mandatory. I object in principle to being told by my employer what I can do in my off time, or even if they want to spin it as work time, it's objectionable to be used as labor for a charitable organization that I didn't choose. But is it illegal? I've tried googling "mandatory volunteering" and haven't come up with much; most of the hits are regarding high school citizenship classes. Anybody know whether this is legal or not?

Even back when I was drinking the Kool-Aid I didn't think that working on staff was such a good deal. Our LC was pushing us all to apply for staff positions, we had a few people with skills that HQ could have exploited, like some contractors who could have been in Way Builders maybe, but I am a retail manager, at the time I was a Regional Circulation Sales manager for a newspaper. They certainly weren't going to put someone like me in a management position! I wasn't Way Corps! I'd have ended up in Multi-Services cleaning toilets or picking lint out of the gravel. When I brought up my perception that I'd likely not fit in as a staff person, my concerns were dismissed and I was told that I wasn't committed to...something...

...whoa What is amazing is that when you're "outside the household" bad stuff happens because you're, well, "outside of the household", see, I told you you'd be a grease spot by midnight! But when bad stuff happens to the innies, then it's a different story. Like the good things that happen to wayfers is proof of how God is blessing them, but when it happens to us "copouts"...it must be the adversary prospering us. It sounds like you're not letting it get to you; you're not under their authority any more; there's nothing they can do to you...you walked away from the guilt and condemnation.

In my observation many people (I wouldn't want to guess the percentage) are adept at identifying the problems but not at all interested in coming up with solutions. Solving the problems is hard work. And I've seen this in every area of life: from work situations, to the PTA, to family situations, to churches (and covens ), to all manner of volunteer organizations. Maybe it's human nature. I don't know what Geer's motivation was either, I didn't know the man and was never around him, but he seemed to have a definite opinion that there was a problem, wasn't very specific about what the problem even was and was even less specific as to what to do about it. Stepping back and telling other people to fix a problem, what a deal! And when the description of what things will look like when the problem is fixed exist only in your head, you've got people running around trying to guess what it is you're thinking.

Ah, I had sympathy for your POV Composer until you declared that you had THE TRUTH And your crusade to educate the poor ignorant masses sounds a little bit too much like what you profess to be against...

Was this since RFR has been President? Yeah, fending off the Amwayfers over the years was a recurring problem. Back in the early 80's we had a Limb Coordinator who sold vacuums. At the time I also sold vacuums. He used his influence as the local MOG to sell quite a few to local wayfers, when I couldn't even get in the door. Of course he made sure to tell people that the brand that he was selling was Mrs. Wierwille's choice of vacuums.

And this crap continued, and probably still continues. The first one that I was around for was Advanced Class '79, live...anybody was wanted to be spiritual had to be at that one; Weekends and Days in the Word in 1980; then there was Living Victoriously in 1982, followed by the inauguration and the passing of the skunk pelt...all the way up to the 50th Anniversary weekends in 1992, the Advanced Class Specials including the one that became Defeating the Adversary, the new advanced class, then the new, new advanced class and WayAP. It never ends.

In my observation Composer is the first one that I can think of who came out and said that he hated God, or rather he actually said that he was "disgusted by" the Intelligent Designer ("God" for shorthand) that brings so much death and misery to the ones he/it supposedly loves. I can see where an disbeliever would be out of place discussing doctrinal minutia, but on broad topics, especially one like this thread, why wouldn't someone who hates God be interested in the discussion?

VP was able to believe to not set fire to the tent. The rest of us just couldn't handle it.

Several years before the no smoking policy was instituted for all Way Corps I was at a weekend class being run by the Region Coordinator who happened to be a smoker. After lunch, the RC asked the waitress for an ashtray and lit up. Several other smokers, seeing that our fearless leader was smoking, figured that it was okay for everyone to smoke. After a few minutes we were treated to a tirade about how no ashtrays on the tables indicated "no smoking" and that he, as the teacher and MOG for the Region was entitled to privelages that the rest of us were not.

Go 'till you hear turnips... :unsure:

..and there we had the spectacle of one dysfunctional faction of a dysfunctional organization condemning another dysfunctional faction for not being sufficiently like the dysfunctional founder :o This was a large scale manifestation of what, in my observation, had long been a part of the TWI culture, comparing the leadership and each other to the perceived "standard of the Word". Most of the time it bubbled under the surface and was only discussed among friends who could absolutely could be trusted to keep their mouths shut. Geer's actions opened the door for this kind of suspicion and back-stabbing to be out in the open. Martindale for the most part put a lid on this for a few years due to his draconian policies and zero tolerance for dissent, but opened the door himself in the mid-nineties with his purges and standard of "genuine spiritual suspicion" that did not exclude the Way Corps. There was a period when the accusations and infighting broke loose again, with everybody pointing fingers at suspected "homos" in their midst.

Which I never understood. Why do we want to hear glass break? In what context does going the distance or giving your all cause glass to literally break? It never made sense to me and still doesn't. :wacko: When the R&E book was being edited LCM claimed concern that it would be longer than VP's longest book, Jesus Christ Our Passover. Its final version was in fact shorter to LCM's great relief.

If I remember correctly, your parents were wayfers, right? For those of us in our 50's, PFAL was a new and exotic break with what our parents taught us. It was counter-cultural, it was a rebellion against authority, we were after something and this looked like it. If you were brought up in TWI it was just your parents' stupid religion.