Oakspear

fromThe Cult That Snapped by Karl Kahler, p 107: 1st Corps 1972 - 9 graduated 2nd Corps 1973 - 19 3rd Corps 1974 - 25 4th Corps 1975 - 68 5th Corps 1977 - 70 6th Corps 1978 - 275 7th Corps 1979 - 279 8th Corps 1980 - 207 9th Corps 1981 - Not released 10th Corps 1982 - 299 11th Corps 1983 - 326 12th Corps 1984 - not released 13th Corps 1985 - not released 14th Corps 1986 - 296 15th Corps 1987 - 360+ (including Family Corps) 16th Corps 1988 - 201

Can I use non-religious platitudes?

Then what is being discussed in I Thessalonians 4 when "the dead in Christ shall rise"...and those that area live and remain meet the lord on the air?

Sudo: The seismographs picked it up all right, the operators just didn't have a pre-set communications plan in place to warn the governments about the quake and the possible tsunami to follow.

Or perhaps it magnifies it, depends on your point of view. What would be bigger, a sacrifice that covered all(without exception ;)-->) because it's cleansing power was so far reaching, or one that only covered those who accepted it because they were in the right place at the right time, were in the right culture, had the right parents or who got witnessed to by the right missionaries? Not saying that's what I believe, just that it's as valid as the statement quoted above.

I'm still waiting for an apology :D--> Hey, I'm in the phone book!

Our local "leadership" would pick on whoever they thought was weaker or less loyal at any given time, and with us it switched back & forth. I remember when, a year or two before I finally left, my ex-wife stopped attending fellowships for a few months. The fellowship coordinator took me aside and made all kinds of dire predictions about how she would die alone, without her kids around her, because she had rejected "The Word". I was stunned, not only because of what he was saying about her, but because I knew that he had to have said the same things to her about me. What was ironic was that she was one of the most loyal people to TWI that you'd ever run into, she'd do anything for "the ministry that taught her The Word". She was staying away from fellowship because of me! Our problems had gotten so bad that she felt hypocritical attending fellowship with me and pretending everything was alright, and felt that the local leaders were deceived for accepting me and even letting me teach. After a while she started attending with me again and everything was fine with "leadership". When I finally was booted out it was final proof that she was "unequally yoked" with me, and that the "spiritual darkness" that I was bringing into our home must go.

As much as I try to stay away from TWI music, the TWI song leading came in handy last week when I led a group of fellow employees in Christmas carols!

I could never memorize those bible verses either. My memory is more associative than photographic. Things that I learn are associated with other things in a kind of chain. I was good with concepts, and could usually tell you where a verse could be found based on the subject matter, but I could never keep the word-for-word in my head for very long.

Belle makes a great point in another thread: While some of you got out of TWI with your marriages intact, how many of us literally couldn't talk to our spouses about our misgivings, about our doubts, about the things that we thought were wrong?When doubting "the ministry that taught you the Word" was equivalent to rejecting God, what "sold out" man or woman would want to hear that their spouse was an "unbeliever"? How much subtle and not-so-subtle undermining of marriages went on in TWI?

Back when I was but an acorn, Christmas was a fun, family time. The house was decorated, inside and out, and we always had a decorated Christmas tree. I don't recall much of what we did on Xmas Eve, but we always got up early to tear into our presents, and then off to church. In those days all but one or two of our clan lived nearby, so it wasn't too difficult to get together for the a big meal on Christmas Day. During my TWI days we celebrated in varying ways. The Way didn't usually schedule anything, although we would get together with people from our fellowship from time to time. One year we decorated the tree and one of the kids asked where the star was, so I put a picture of Bob Dylan on top. For several years a different "star" went on top of the tree. We tried to do different fun things on Christmas & Christmas Eve. One year we rented a bunch of movies and stayed up all night watching, with a break to do our paper routes. Another year we rented a hotel room where they had a pool and had a pool party pot luck. 2001 was horrible, however. I was recently (6 weeks) separated, my kids didn't want to see me and I had no friends. Even though the store was closed I went in to work, got on the computer, and hung out in the Grease Spot chat room :D--> I don't remember for sure who was there, but there was a few folks to talk to. Abigail & I had goten to be friends, so we talked on the phone. Other than that it was a miserable day at my old hovel :(--> 2002 was slightly better. I was still at the hovel, still alone, but I decided to cook a nice dinner for myself. I had a bottle of Jack Daniels and a couple of quarts of egg nog and found out that they went well together. I attended midnight mass in a decidedly jolly mood. I went out the next day and watched "The Two Towers" at the local theater. 2003 was as reikilady described it, and much better than previous years. 2004 was great. A family dinner with reiklady and her daughter. Even though there were only three of us, we had cooked a variety of foods, so we were all pretty full while opening gifts and had plenty of leftovers for Saturday.

DaddyHoundog's wife posts using his handle

Thw wquita ransprti amb pytiliac!

Yeah WW, you do see quite a difference in style between the Blue Book and CSBP on one hand and JCING, JCOPS & JCOP on the other hand. Maybe he just took some creative writing classes

Is there any answer to the question that WON'T be an oversimplification? (Including what I just wrote :D-->)

How much of the bloated staff situation is due to TWI still owning the original Wierwille farm? I imagine that they could still administratively run a small organization like TWI has become out of small to medium suite of offices. How much office space does it take to run a magazine? How many people does it take to oversee the Way Corps? Train the Way Corps? Is much of the labor and space and expense due to keeping several sections of former farmland mowed and neat looking?

Thanks for all the good wishes :P--> Comparing notes about what "leadership" had said and done in certain situations was enlightening...for all of us. A side note about the meeting. My son Ben, as it turns out, has learned to enjoy many of the same local bands as I do. We have gone to some of the same bars, just never at the same time. After the initial hugging and such, B remarked how much he liked the band that was playing, a pair of brothers who had toured worldwide and moved to Lincoln to semi-retire. When they finished the set one of the musicians came over to sit at my table and retrieve the beer that I was "guarding" for him. My son's eyes got real wide and he said "You KNOW these guys?" Hmmm...maybe some new candidates for the Weenie Roast

Yeah, Hank's rear has been featured here before, but we can always use more rear-kissing! It reminds me of the commercial for some cable alternative, Dish Network maybe, where the two salesmen for the advertised product act just like door-to-door witnessers

Some of you know that in the aftermath of my divorce and virtually simultaneous ejection from TWI my family was left in a shambles. I have six children, but for various reasons had regular contact with only one of them, who is in the Navy in Japan. It surely isn't my idea to be estranged from my children like this. One of my sons, C, and his girlfriend ran into me and reikilady at a restaurant about a month ago. Everything seemed cordial, so we exchanged addresses and phone numbers, and all four of us had dinner together the other night. Things went great and we'll be seeing each other again. But here's the big news: My oldest son B and I have not seen each other for over three years. He actually left TWI shortly before I did, but due to much manipulation and interference by TWI leaders our realtiuonship was severly damaged. Our last meeting resulted in a fistfight. His last meeting with T, who is in the Navy, ended the same way. Monday night T, who is home on leave, and I went out to open stage at the local pub and were joined by C. To everybody's great surprise (except C, who I suspect set it all up) B showed up as well. The first couple of seconds were tense, but nobody hit anybody else, and there was forgiveness and hugs (and beer and shots) all around. C left to get some sleep, since he had to work, but the rest of us stayed until closing time and went out for breakfast afterward. We talked a lot about how our lives were going, and all recognized how we let interfering @#$%&^'s from TWI screw us up. This, my fellow Grease Spots, has been the best Yuletide in a long time.

I guess whether or not you could actually pay cash for a house would depend on the home values in your area and what your income was. I have no idea what houses go for these days. But let's say you want to get a small, two-bedroom for $50,000. Let's further say that you have an income of $30,000 per year. How much of that income could you put away as savings. Let's assume that you can sock away 10% (not bad, considering that you are already giving 10%+ to TWI), so that's $3,000/year. So in seventeen years you have put aside a little over the $50,000 you need. Plug in whatever income level or home valuation that you want, but that's a long time to be saving. In the meantime what are you doing for a place to live? Renting! In those seventeen years hopefully your income will rise, but the cost of buying a home will as well. While getting a good job, saving your money, living with your parents etc are all good advice, it still takes time to do all of this, and most non-TWI financial advisors would say that you are making better use of your money to take out a mortgage than to try to save it all up front. TWI and its leaders didn't try to give advice on how to do it because they didn't know how! They assumed that a mortgage was prohibited by God, so therefore owning a home must be possible if God's word is true

Ah, trying to guilt me into stopping my criticism? :D--> That got me sucked into being PTA president for three years Seriously Pat, while I applaud you doing your part to keep information about TWI flowing and all, I just don't think it's very funny. You can chalk it up to one man's personal opinion, but I prefer my satire to be a little more subtle, while your site is a bit more blunt and the humor more obvious than I normally like. Anyway, I made my point, I shan't beat it to death - have fun

I see your point about higher comprehension level, but how about a higher humor level? ;)-->

One of the things that LCM and the other top dogs said about RFR was that she was a good administrator. Aside from whether TWI is a "ministry", or a cult, an organization always needs somebody who can keep things organized, to "keep the trains running on time" so to speak. Back in Wierwille's and Martindale's regimes, I thought that the Vice Prez and Sec'y-Treasurer filled that role. Vic and Loy were the front men, the idea men, while the other two trustees implemented the "Great One's" ideas and orders. Say what you will, but Wierwille knew how to run a cult, he knew how to be the center of attention. Martindale could have had it too, but did himself in. Since Martindale's ouster, roles seem to have reversed. The Vice President, the administrator, the implementer had now been elevated to the top spot, and appears to be acting the same as when she was Vice President. I believe that this is a good startegic move on TWI's part. RFR is not a good speaker, taught seldom in public, did not have a loyal sub-group of followers due to be a Limb Coordinator or Corps leader, but I'll bet she rules with an iron fist while letting "the boys" have little pieces of the spotlight to teach and run limbs and regions. The central, powerful MOG version of TWI failed, why continue in the same fashion.

By the way Galen, I was just trying (apparently unsucessfully :(-->) to be humorous; sorry about the fallout. :D-->

Yes, oeno is much more handsome than an eighty-something founding father :D-->