Oakspear

Pillai was born in India in the 1900's, thousands of miles away from and about 2000 years after the bible was written, and we're supposed to believe that he had special insight into biblical customs because it was "The East"?

On more than one occasion I looked forward to new "leadership" coming to town because I was convinced that HQ had figured out how screwed up the last "leader" was and had yanked him out. After all, if I had figured it out, naturally the spiritual heavyweights at HQ would have no trouble seeing it.

Without getting into the specifics about whether TWI's take on this was "accurate" (or akrit), it's certainly an example of how Wierwille used these "gee-whiz" teachings to tear down the perceived reliability of the mainstream churches and build up his own credentials in our eyes.

100%, that reminds me of a story from a few years back when they were in the process of changing the way that the advanced class test was done. Each month (or maybe it was each week, memory starts to fade!) candidates would be tested on a different aspect of what one was supposed to know before going into the class. Limb Coordinators were supposed to come up with the questions and give them to the applicants in their Limb to be done at home as an open book test. One of my kids was applying to take the advanced class and received his test for the Rise & Expansion book that must have had 500 questions, including essays and Greek word studies. About a week after it was turned in we were informed by our branch coordinator that we were getting a shorter, more concise test of less than 100 questions, which was what the BOT really wanted. When I was heard to say that our L had made a mistake with the first test, I was "corrected" and told that the first, longer, test was right at the time, that the LC was not in error, but that revelation had changed!

It was one of those things that had me scratching my head and silently mouthing the word "huh?" during my first sitting through PFAL. Maybe it would have made more sense if he had said that we couldn't hear the voice of God without spirit, rather than phrasing it as something that God couldn't do. God can only give what he is...spirit...that makes no sense!

Thus saith THE LORD: thou shalt use archaic language and indiscriminate use of Anglicized Aramaic when declaring my will. Thou shalt kick in the toockus the vile meshugganah who profanes the skunk pelt of THE LORD. Whenst comest thy prophecies and what a putz thou art. Omayn.

As a non-Christian, obviously I don't believe that churches are a "mandatory step", however I think that for some people they are crucial for getting through the post-cult time and getting settled in a Christian life. As far as living a Christian life, I think that one would be hard pressed to identify me as a non-Christian just by observing my actions, my beliefs differ, but if you followed me and my two Christian brothers around for a year with a camera I doubt you could easily say which of us was the pagan. But as far as church attendance goes, many people benefit greatly from the structure, the guidance, the fellowship, and that makes me thankful that they're out there.

People who have left seem to have the same amount of heartache and problems, successes and triumphs as the general population. When I first was kicked out I probably looked like the poster child for being a grease spot by midnight. My wife threw me out, most of my kids wouldn't talk to me, I lived in an apartment that I nicknamed "The Hovel". But that was temporary. I remarried, get along fine with my kids (am officiating at one son's wedding tomorrow) remarried to a wonderful woman, my salary has about doubled, I'm out of debt, have started a business, lost weight and am generally healthy and really enjoy life!

Getting over it for me was fairly straightforward. I spent several years before I actually left questioning and re-examining virtually all of their doctrine, so their teachings were pretty much dismantled in my mind when I was booted. As far as "the fellowship", I was treated so nastily the last few years that I was 'in' that I felt no love or affection for anyone still involved in TWI.

I too would like to thank the Board of Directors, formerly the Board of Trustees, because, according to the Region Coordinator who threw me out, the Trustees were deeply involved in every decision to mark & avoid someone. I'd also like to thank: John Reynolds for telling me to talk to Tom Horrocks about the problems that I was having with TWI doctrine. If not for that conversation I would never have heard Horrocks say "I don't need to work the Word, if the Way of Abundance and Power Class is good enough for the trustees, it's good enough for me, showing up the shallowness of the supposed "research" The late Fred B whose nastiness to me and my family in the name of 'The Word' and whose lack of logic and critical thinking helped me to see that 'leadership' were devoid of any practical use to me My fellowship coordinator Roger T whose attempts to drive a wedge between me and at least one of my children made it easier to leave the organization and speak out against it without any second thoughts or regrets Eric K, the Limb Coordinator who put me on 6 month probation and called my actions 'trecherous' while defending Martindale's actions - he made the organization's hypocrisy crystal-clear and last but not least all the TWI peons who meekly accepted the directive to mark and avoid me, making it easier to cut all ties with that evil group Thanks guys! (Livin' the dream!)

In my opinion a splinter or offshoot is founded by ex-twi folks with part of the motivation being to "get back to the Word" that supposedly was no longer part of twi proper. I would view a group as a splinter also if it was started as more a less a haven for people leaving twi. Due to these two foundations, a splinter would resemble twi in some fashion, either doctrinally or organizationally. While some of the splinters question twi doctrine and practice to some degree, some acceptance of twi's basics appears to be a given.

Um...I was already happy...and still am

I think John Popper of Blues Traveler made a good point about the words being the most important... It doesn't matter what I say So long as I sing with inflection That makes you feel that I'll convey Some inner truth of vast reflection But I've said nothing so far And I can keep it up for as long as it takes And it don't matter who you are If I'm doing my job then it's your resolve that breaks Because the hook brings you back I ain't telling you no lie The hook brings you back On that you can rely There is something amiss I am being insincere In fact I don't mean any of this Still my confession draws you near To confuse the issue I refer To familiar heroes from long ago No matter how much Peter loved her What made the Pan refuse to grow Was that the hook brings you back I ain't telling you no lie The hook brings you back On that you can rely Suck it in, suck it in, suck it in If you're Rin Tin Tin or Anne Boleyn Make a desperate move or else you'll win And then begin to see What you're doing to me This MTV is not for free It's so PC it's killing me So desperately I sing to thee of love Sure but also rage and hate and pain and fear of self And I can't keep these feelings on the shelf I've tried, well, no, in fact I lied Could be financial suicide But I've got too much pride inside To hide or slide I'll do as I'll decide and let it ride until I've died And only then shall I abide this tide Of catchy little tunes Of hip three minute ditties I want to bust all your balloons I want to burn all of your cities To the ground, I've found I will not mess around Unless I play then hey I will go on all day, hear what I say I have a prayer to pray That's really all this was And when I'm feeling stuck and need a buck I don't rely on luck because The hook brings you back I ain't telling you no lie The hook . . . On that you can rely The Hook, lyrics by John Popper

1. Listen to the tape (or live during phone hookup) 2. Listen to the review on the following week's tape before the main teaching 3. Listen to the teaching at twig based on the previous Sunday's teaching topic 4. Listen to the review of the tape at twig Yup...four times for each subject

When believers prosper it's because they are blessed by God due to be in the household When unbelievers prosper it's a counterfeit of the "Adversary" When rank & file believers get sick it's because they are off the Word When leadership gets sick it's because the "Adversary" is attacking them due to their stand on the Word

I recall the same thing

If they don't know your income, they can't do the math....[but[/i] - when I was in they had no problem asking me what my income was or if I was giving 10%...giving me the choice of (A) Telling them what my income was, (B)Lying about my income or ©Refusing to tell them. (A) gives them what they want, (B)puts me in a position of lying, which they'd likely figure out eventually and © earns me lectures about being meek, not being rebellious or "resisting the power".

Arizona must have incorporation laws that are favorable to religious non-profits, like Delaware is where a lot of regular corporations incorporate. And was the difference between assets and liabilities 54 million?

I suspected that Way Disciples at HQ was a back-door way to get some extra staff on board. If the purpose of the program is to "move the Word", why bury them in the middle of where the Word supposedly lives? <_<

Long & boring? Not from where I sit. When Waydale was up and in the early days of Grease Spot there were lots of folks at HQ and in field leadership positions who kept us up-to-date, as well as non-leadership folks like me and Belle who posted synopses of STS and Way Mag articles. The last few years have been kind of dry. Then the company line was that most of what was discussed here was old news. It's nice to have a recent escapee like yourself, who was right in the midst of the lions' den to give us current info.

I kinda like that new light...wait, we're talking about Bud's Golden Wheat right?

Oh yeah...I didn't mind it so much when it was used sincerely (albeit mindlessly) by someone, but when it was used out of context, for example:A couple of us are attempting to enter an area that the appointed TWI watchdog decides is off-limits for whatever reason; he steps in our path and says "bless you", when maybe, "Sorry guys, you can't go in there" might be more appropriate.

Not tarring all the Way Corps with the same brush, but in addition to the BOT not having a clue about what the Corps on the field had to deal with, oftentimes there'd be fresh from HQ Way Corps, mostly singles or young marrieds with no kids, who'd take HQ's crap to heart and would in turn have no clue what a typical family had to deal with. Probably the most enjoyable (or least stressful) time in TWI in the 90's was when a Family Corps couple with several kids came, first as WOW coordinators and the following year as Limb Coordinators. The couple both worked full-time jobs and were active in their kids' school. Their TWI responsibilities were over and above what regular people had to do. When they left we were saddled with several idiots who didn't understand that kids sometimes got sick, or had Boy Scout events, or that the parents had to work overtime and that we occasionally wanted to use our vacation time for something other than TWI classes. We home-schooled our kids and I worked out of the home so they assumed that we were always free to just drop what we were doing to go witness, or have a meeting, or have "leadership" drop in.

Well G, for some, logic is only embraced when it buttresses our own opinion. Of course, I could be wrong....