Oakspear

I guess I should have remembered that from the mid-nineties on, every minute of every day was a confrontation session! We got yelled at for so many things it was astounding: BC sets up a "witnessing night" at the park. He and some of the younger guys get into a basketball game, some of us parents took our kids to the playground, and some of the singles just cruised around. After the designated time to meet, we all meet back at the basketball courts where BC is still playing basketball and not really talking to anyone. The rest of us amble over to watch the game. BC stops in the middle of a play and roars at me to "get my people together" (I was a twig coordinator) and speak the Word to some of those gathered around and stop being slothful.

Kind of depends on how many daughters Pharoah had, whether there were any sons, etc. In England the children of Princess Anne are kind of low on the succession totem pole, I doubt that Moses had anything close to a legitimate claim on the Egyptian throne.

If the guy who taught PFAL was a little more receptive to research that wasn't his maybe "everybody else who learned it too" might have been more motivated to do it.

A hairy pilot Roars at a prissy robot They're far, far, away

Right on Galen! If you can't listen to people, how are you going to minister to 'em?

Oh yeah, after watching Dogma I now picture God as Alanis Morrisette; I know what you mean

Hiya Keynote, good to see you posting again! :D-->

The Way talked out of both sides of their mouth on this, non-Way literature would be referred to, and then we would be told to stick with the PFAL materials. Much depended on the local leader. After all, Wierwille was obviously well-read, and Martindale used to brag about all the books he read, and even displayed the Harvard Classics on the WayAP set. In my area the biggest opponent of "secular" literature was my ex-wife. She interpreted Wierwille's statement in PFAL to put aside all your secular reading materials as a lifelong thing. She nagged me when I read books or newspapers, and eventually nagged me into dumping my LP collection. A few weeks ago my oldest son told me that it was painful for him to watch me throw those records out.

I condemn the Apostle Paul for writing it!I don't believe God authored it! I can still focus on those sins because their effects still linger

It wasn't until the Allen lawsuit and its aftermath that I was motivated enough to really check this stuff out and question it. Convinced that since Martindale wasn't spiritual enough to realize that screwing another man's wife was wrong, he wasn't spiritual enough to teach anything, let alone a class designed to be the foundation. After a year going through the WayAP class and starting on PFAL I had about ten typed pages of errors. The most egregious errors were the "Original Sin of Mankind" and "The Face of the Deep" from WayAP. I went to leadership with my research findings, rebutting everything Martindale taught virtually word by word. My twig coordinator hemmed and hawed and said that he couldn't find any errors. (This was not a stupid man - he was probably the only other person in the region to have any facility with Greek, and was in some ways a very logical thinker) Rather than b.s around with the Way Tree, I went right to John Reynolds. John phoned me one night and gave me no real answers. He asserted that Rivenbark had a hand in the research that went into the class, and it had been "checked out". (As if that was an answer). Reynolds suggested I discuss my concerns with Tom H, who would be teaching the class live. Reynolds said that because TH was teaching WayAP live, he would be "working the Word" in preparation and would be able to answer my questions. TH had no answers other than "I don't need to work the Word; if this class is good enough for the Trustees, it's good enough for me". The only concern that he had was that my doubts were infecting the "household". Eventually I was confronted for posting on GS, although I never admitted to it, I told Mrs. TH that either someone would have to explain why I was wrong, or the Trustees would have to change what they were teaching. Well, neither happened. I was kicked out less than a week later. They were never interested in my "research", nor in my conclusions, they were only interested in getting me to conform.

The biggest mistake that TWI "leadership" ever made with me was teaching me how to use research materials. In the early nineties our LC's wife gave me or copied for me many of her Corps notes on Greek grammar. I'm pretty good with languages, so, although I'm no Greek scholar, I was able to teach myself enough so that I could at least check out what I was being taught. We never had any big "research heavyweights" in our Limb, or even region, so I was well beyond most of the local Corps within a few years. Initially I used my skills to more firmly root in my mind what I was being taught; but balked at saying anything when I found problems. The first was the whole athletes of the spirit teaching. None of the interlinears, concordances, lexicons, etc supported the interpretation that TWI propounded. At that time I just "held it in abeyance", figuring I'd see it someday.

Link to the related discussion in the Doctrinal Forum: http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/1...06139#456106139

The example "letting dogs loose upon the game" was not a definition, but an illustration. It was correct as far as the "letting loose" part, but the emphasis should have been on the act of releasing the dogs, not the dogs' actions once loose. Vic got itb from Bullinger, who got it from a non-biblical Greek writer, but Vic didn't really understand Bullinger, or intentionally misrepresented him.

Goey: Your second comment is largely answered by your first. If something is not dangerous, why would their need to be any double blind studies? ummm...to see if it works --> Anecdotal isn't a slur word. It just means that it's merely unsupported, not that it's necessarily wrong. --> Telling us that you drank oxy water and felt better is anecdotal evidense. Maybe it was the water that made you feel better, maybe not. In this case we don't know for sure without more information. The only thing that it's evidense of is that people will buy it. If something is merchandised correctly, it will sell. Hell, we have a saying in the grocery business: "If you put a 'closeout - 50% off' sign on a sack of dang, it will be sold out by the end of the day"

Nope, not surprised here. What about you, Oak? You surprised? Nope :D-->

Promoting homosexuality? Animosity? I thought that all of us who posted did so in a respectful manner. Between Abigail, Laleo, Mike and myself, GSers were over there a lot. Simple questions were quickly deleted.

I don't know, the word of Song is perfect and he says what he means and means what he says. So technically you did not complete the assignment :D-->

For about a year my oldest son lived with the BC and his wife. My son worked several part time jobs rather than one full time job. One of the downfalls of this is that if you are single, working several low income jobs, the tax tables that employers use to figure withholding show that the income at each of the jobs is too low for there to be a tax liability, so there is little or no withholding, even though when you add them together there is. Due to this, my son owed a few hundred at tax time, rather than getting a refund. The BC confronted him for being in debt to the IRS. (Despite the fact that Howard Allen taught that the ideal situation was to break even, or owe a small amount, so that you had full use of your money, and the gov't wasn't holding it interest-free)

First, I got to be the "note taker guy" because the BC got a look at the notes I took at a class one time. It was the original live version of Defeating the Adversary that was the first half of an Advanced Class Special in (I think) 1992. The notes were considerably more detailed than the syllabus and contained notes on charts that for one reason or another didn't make it into the filmed class. (I'm still kind of an obsessive note taker. Ask some of the Weenies about my little black notebook at the 2nd Weenie Roast :D-->) The first time I got called was after a twig coordinators' meeting one night. The BC, remembering my compulsive (yet detailed & accurate) note taking, took me aside and asked me to come with him and take notes at a confrontation that was brewing. Apparently I was such a sucessful little non-Corps Nazi that I was kept on as a regular member of the Gestapo. It helped that I was easy to get ahold of. I worked out of my home and didn't keep regular hours, we also home-schooled the kids, so both me & the former Mrs. Oak were at home most of the time. Of course, they didn't consider that just because we were HOME didn't mean that we were AVAILABLE. Yeah, sometimes I'd get a call out of the blue - "I'm coming over to pick you up - we have to confront socks about his wise-foot comments" ;)-->

Is rank idolatry worse than regular idolatry?

where's the three adjectives, knucklehead?

Somehow, during the mid- to late nineties, I was called upon to sit in on most of the "before the church" confrontations that took place in our branch. (Anyone here who was the subject of those - I'm really, really, sorry about that :(-->) I was called at all hours of the day, missed work (I worked at home), missed sleep, and even got called when I had another couple over for dinner. The BC figured out that I could take detailed, accurate notes, and had a good memory for what was being discussed and could spot contradictions. Usually the whole thing was a kangaroo court to expel someone who the BC just didn't like. Because of that, verbal traps were set up, no-win situations, and rhetorical ambushes. All in an effort to get the poor confrontee to hang himself. Here's one of the more memorable for me: Confrontee does something stupid (I forget what it was) and is being grilled by the BC. BC asks him if he thinks God is happy with his actions. Confrontee says that no, God is not happy with his actions. BC then asks how he pictures God expressing his disapproval. Confrontee says that he pictures an old man in a white beard frowning at him. BC goes ballistic! "That's idolatry! God doesn't have a beard, he's not an old man! You've reverted to your Roman Catholic upbringing! We can't have idolatry in the household!"

This is another example of different people experiencing "different TWI's". I was "in" from 1978-2001. I saw just as many classes run by non-Corps as by Corps, possibly more, especially in the late seventies, early eighties. I ran one myself in 1982 while living with an 8th Corps grad and with several other Corps grads living nearby. It wasn't until the WayAP class came out and PFAL was canned that they insisted that Corps grads had to coordinate a class. And as far as I knew the military guys at Offut AFB always coordinated well with the Limb.

...in oxygenated mud?

wanna mud-wrestle?