Oakspear

I can see why some people, in some circumstances, would go to an offshoot, or an informal ex-Way fellowship. If, when you made the decision to leave, you were convinced that the core doctrine was sound, but the practice was flawed, then an offshoot, especially one that retained much of the old ways, would seem very comforting. In the late eighties whole limbs were being marked and avoided and the staff fired. Often the loyalty (after God) and familiarity was not to the central HQ, but to the local people who cared about you and loved you on a daily basis. In the face of such upheaval, it makes perfect sense to try and maintain some order, some continuity.

When I first heard about plans to build the auditorium I thought that we were building another Mormon Tabernacle or a Temple. Why did we need a big building when we fellowshipped in the home? I never gave a cent. Another time I recall some TWI bigwig, maybe Ralph D discussing how it would be named "The Victor Paul Wierwille Word Over The World Auditorium" and Wierwille got mad and stomped out, only to be later "convinced" by Howard Allen that it was appropriate. What crap. It was Wierwille's playground, if he really didn't want his name on it, it wouldn't have been there.

Rascal: Would you please step over to Private Topics? :D-->

For any who think that the big, bad Way Corps were nothing but an impediment to "the movement of the Word", did you think that Wierwille wanted your blessed little fellowship to remain independent? Do you think that he didn't know that Corps grads and interim Corps trainees were going out and replacing non-Corps as fellowship leaders? Did you think that Wierwille developed the Way Corps as anything other than as a mechanism for control? The abusive, controlling "Corps-Nazis" were just those who saw what was expected of them and did it. Expected by who? Wierwille, of course. After PFAL was filmed, and a few key people started running with it, growth came without much oversight. The Way Corps didn't spring up spontaneously, Wierwille created it. The "I'm better than you" attitude didn't come out of nowhere, it was a logical and natural outgrowth of Wierwille's need to control and his no-it-all mindset that was enshrined in PFAL.

Good idea. Since we're spread all over the continent, maybe state or regional get togethers the same weekend would be cool...get group pics taken and posted. I have decided to put my discretionary income into getting some debt paid off (all of it by September) and saving up for some changes later in the year, rather than my usual travelling, so I will be unable to attend anything too far from home. However there are several GSers in neighboring states who it would be convenient to go see, and I think I could figure out how to host something modest.

Bob, those were my legs you were shaving

But not too busy to pay attention to all the "abusive Way Corpse" as you often put it.

I'm not among them, but plenty of people here went through TWI without getting a divorce :D-->

No, the freakin' ends do NOT justify the freakin' means! Wierwille's abuse of women, plagiarism, lying, power plays, playing puppet master...and oh, did I mention ABUSE OF WOMEN was okay, because thousands of people "got blessed"?????

Rascal: May I? Thank you! :D--> She didn't say that she couldn't testify, just that it wouldn't hold up in a court of law. Not the same thing. Several people found out over the past few years that speaking your mind doesn't come close to guaranteeing that a judge will believe it or allow it as evidense. Which she does. She is not saying that she can't speak what she wants to speak...geez...she is stating how she can and does. If you are to be a witness in a court case you must be careful about what you say so as not to prejudice the case. She is saying that she is not hampered by the courtroom thing...

Pat: I am aware of the "possessed" card being played in every TWI divorce that I personally know of

I can't see myself doing a "180", i.e. turning myself completely back in the direction that I am coming from, but I can see myself doing a '90", a "270", a "137" etc. :D--> My current beliefs are not set in stone, and I expect to change my mind about some things; but I have rejected the TWI view of the universe and the abusive atmosphere in which they flourished

Happy b'day anamchara

and she is a doctor, just not a doctor of psycology (she has a PhD in physiology)

The people who call her must really love abuse.

But if he was shot for his plain-evilness would he still be saved? --> I was told a few months back that I should be shot for conducting a panty raid.

Is WayAP (The Way of Abudance & Power) still The Way's foundational class? If so, then I, and a few others here know what is being taught in TWI and can form an opinion. Are Wierwille's Studies in Abundant Living, Christians Should Be Prosperous, Jesus Christ is NOT God, Are the Dead Alive Now?, Receiving the Holy Spirit Today, Jesus Christ Our Passover, Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed and Martindale's Rise & Expansion of the Christian Church in the First Century still being sold and taught from? If so, then I, and most others here know what is being taught in TWI and can form an opinion. Have Rosalie and the other leaders acknowledged the abuses and errors of the past and repudiated them? If not, then I, and others here can discern their attitude and can form an opinion. Several of us have been out of TWI a very short time and can attest to what is being taught. Some of us still have Way Magazine subscriptions or can see what is said about them on the Family Tables website. We have a firm basis for our opinions, MD. A very firm basis. What we cannot address is your own personal experience or the atmosphere in your area. Did you know that several of us were ejected from The Way because we were found to be posting here? Did you know that one of us, while still "in" sent a letter to an acquaintance at HQ, and the Way leadership tracked that person through the postage machine stamp on the envelope? You're involved with The Way and are allowed to freely post your pro-TWI opinions here. Did you know that a website run by a TWI guy recently banned most of us from his website to prevent us from freely posting our opinions? Oh yeah...we know what we're talking about

Thanks Radar Sometimes lazy people use the "home schooling" umbrella as an excuse to...I don't know what, but educatin' ain't going on. Without turning this into a discussion about home schooling, oftentimes TWI leaders had no idea what home schooling involved, frequently (at least in our area) expecting that home schooling should have the same hours, use the same books, and cover everything exactly the way the public schools did, and "correcting" us if it didn't. It usually didn't. No one ever told us not to home school, but leaders would involve themselves of aspects of my children's education that they had no business in and no knowledge of. Okay, I'm done with that...thanks again for the clarification Radar. Regarding children in meetings: I was fortunate in that my kids were always able to quietly entertain themselves. They'd bring a notebook like the adults did and drew pictures or whatever while the loooong teaching went on. So we never drew the ire of leadership for "unruly" kids. We were (for a while) expected to drag our kids to fellowship, even when it was past their bedtimes; sometimes they would lay down to sleep in another room. We thought it was a waste, but were pressured into doing it. Of course, once the "leaders" figured out that the kids should be home, then it became a good idea and my then-wife and I alternated staying home with the younger kids. The one thing that drove my kids nuts, was being grilled after the teaching on what it was about, what "blessed" them, etc. (I'm talking about teens and older pre-teens). My two oldest sons still talk about that. Half the time the teaching was over their heads, or they were bored out of their minds.

Yup Steve!, that was my point. The system encouraged it. How late a child stays up, and the quality of their schooling is the parents' decision, not a twig leader's or anyone else's. The system encouraged leaders (and I was one for awhile) to meddle in the internal working and business of families.

Don't forget it's closely related syndrome "I can't resist implying that those who had negative experiences are lying or delusional"

When I first began critically examining PFAL and WayAP I used PFAL methods (the "keys") to see if it could stand up to its own standards. Later I applied outside criteria to my scrutiny.

MD, if you find out that it's okay for "standing" wayfers to post on Grease Spot, tell them that I'm waiting for my apology...that's what got me thrown out in 2001.

Correct or not Radar, you laid down an edict regarding how a parent was to raise their kids? Everyone who interfered in other peoples' families thought they were correct too. Not questioning your heart or intentions, just a system that encourages "leaders" to make decisions about children that don't belong to them and back them up with threats.

Excellors sessions...sheesh --> God gives the utterance? Then how can you decide what sound the word is going to start with? What if it's a language that doesn't have the "B" sound? Or has the clicks and pops of Xhosa?

Offensive? How about whining every Christmas that angels don't have wings? Geez, so what? They're spirit, they don't have FEET either, or any other body parts. They probably are portrayed that way to distinguish them from humans. In the late 90's "witnessing" became "confronting the error of the world with the Word". Don't try to help people, "confront" their so-called error.