Oakspear

The details of Charles' & Camilla's private life is none of our business, even if he is leaving CES. :D-->

Giving Corps sponsorship gave what rights over the sponsored? --> You had no right to expect anything other than what was agreed to.

Yeah, Living Sanctified in Obedience is A LOT different than Prevailing in Obedience with Biblical Understanding or Speaking the Truth in Love About Obedience

You're already up to 36 posts, Zippy, and it's not even April yet.

I doubt many people went into the Way Corps with the intention of walking away the day after graduation. I'm sure that a lifetime committment to God was what many Corps made before ever setting foot at a "root locale". But a lifetime committment to moving every three years? A lifetime committment to being in a program? I certianly didn't expect it of the people I sponsored.

I like Aaron's technique rascal...sounds like real life! -->

March/April 2005 magazine tidbits Articles: The Benefits of M*ekness.....by V*nce M*F*dden We equate meekness with doing what we damn well tell you to do, and believe me, that benefits us! We Have A*cess!.....by B*ll G*een ...to your financial records so that we KNOW if your giving 10%+ Reconciled to R*concile!.....by J*e N*viello Can we find bible verses to back up our stupid analogies? Yes we can! Encouraged to F*int Not.....by D*ttie M*ynihan Pay no attention to that reality behind the curtain...look at us! The Promised Land of the P*evailing Word: Building Biblical Understanding Service Highlights for Dec and Jan Isn't "Highlights" an overly optimistic description? M*nners and Customs (on farmer) Manners and Customs of non-European cultures that may or may not have anything to do with the bible W*y C*rps Building Biblical Understanding Oh horsecarp! W*y D*sciples Building The Body Together Letters on A*vanced Class 2004 Brown-nosing: featuring excessive adjectives

Criticisms of PFAL and TWI like this one never helped me "see the light" about our little cult, since it was pretty easy to spot the errors and mischaractarizations, thus they held absolutely no water with me. In fact, after a while I just stopped paying attention. PFAL rebuttals like this do more harm than good.

Hate to be pedantic (okay, I don't hate to :o-->) but research does not mean "to search again". Especially not to re-search stale, error-ridden publications rather thna thinking for oneself.

--> Why would I know that better than anyone here? --> Do I know you? How do you know what Lynn did or didn't tell me? --> Perhaps you don't recognize Lynn's telling of others how to run their lives because you are so free with the advice yourself. I don't believe those words...I do not carry a dead corpse around with me. Nope. We can all say what we want...which is what I was doing. I didn't mention "comfort". Karma is not a provider of comfort, it just is (or isn't) Oh I hear you, just don't agree with you.

While it's (as others have said) none of my business, there is a sort of karmic justice when those who spent a lot of their time telling other people what was best for their lives demonstrate an inability to handle their own.

where are biblical research keys when ya need 'em? :D-->

Well WhiteDove, my neighbor to the south, you did use truth & error, this is true, but it was in rebuttal to Vickles and ex10. They said that things just weren't black and white, you wrote that you disagreed with them... from which I inferred that by disagreeing with those who said it wasn't black and white, it was reasonable to assume that you believed that it was black and white. Are you confused now? I hope so, because that's one of the weapons in my debating arsenal :P--> - confusion...and a fanatical devotion to the pope...ooh...that's two weapons...

No, and stop looking at my behind

If biblical truth is so readily apparent, and black & white, then why are there so many disagreements among and even within denominations? Can they all have an axe to grind doctrinally? Can they all have trouble reading? Pick any topic and you'll find at least two positions on it.

:P--> I guess if I need to explain my humor it ain't funny :(--> but here goes...you said: Get it? Did you forgive him for helping you stay in TWI? Get it? :P--> Okay, if you thought it was good to stay in TWI, then I guess what I said wouldn't be funny. :o-->But hell, I laughed :D-->

Have you forgiven him yet? ;)--> :D-->

And what's YOUR point? That we should continue to revere Wierwille despite his abuses?

Following is a Private Topic Exchange that Rascal and I had this afternoon that we both agreed was germaine to the topic Rascal: I didn't want to derail the topic, or dilute your point on the SAHM's thread, but I wanted to run this by someone...you! Your point about the wife being the "guardian of the home" is interesting. This was something that was taught in varying forms in TWI, and latched onto by my ex-wife. While I think it was very brave, and showed a lot of determination and love for your children AND Mark by doing what you did, it was also a concept that was abused. We often hear on GS about the women who were sidelined and dominated by their men. The voices of the men who were emotionally blackmailed and mentally castrated are not so often heard. Maybe it's because we men frequently don't want to admit that a woman pushed us around, or feel that what we went through was minor compared to what our sisters had to put up with. The man was often reminded that he was "the head". What the heck did that mean? Especially when we were also told that husband and wife were to be in agreement? In some areas and in some marriages it meant that the husband lorded it over the wife and treated her as a second-class believer. What it meant in my area was that the men got blamed for everything, since they were "the heads". My wife would hold up decisions by claiming that, since we had to be in agreement we could not move on something that I thought we should do, nor even discuss it...just to "hold it in abeyance" until we agreed. What that meant was that things would be put on hold until I agreed with her. Her understanding of "guardian of the home" was that everything that happened within our four walls was her decision to make. No "agreement", no discussion, she was "the guardian" and that was that. She did not, or would not see, the contradiction between my wishes being subject to her veto, but her decisions being beyond question and not subject to discussion or debate. Eventually her role as guardian was used as a justification to keep me away from my own children, even when I still lived there. You can see why I initially didn't want to post this. The whole "guardian of the home" concept makes me see red, yet in your case it saved your family, it saved your marriage. By the way... Nope, not at all. I believe that God woke you up. Hooray! posted Mar 15, 2005 3:09 PM I understand how it all helped you, just an example of how TWI twisted good things and sound concepts to gain control. They used the "submissive wife" thing to keep you down, and used "husband as the head" to keep me off balance. You did the right thing for your family, did the right thing in sharing it, and posting it.

I can see why some people, in some circumstances, would go to an offshoot, or an informal ex-Way fellowship. If, when you made the decision to leave, you were convinced that the core doctrine was sound, but the practice was flawed, then an offshoot, especially one that retained much of the old ways, would seem very comforting. In the late eighties whole limbs were being marked and avoided and the staff fired. Often the loyalty (after God) and familiarity was not to the central HQ, but to the local people who cared about you and loved you on a daily basis. In the face of such upheaval, it makes perfect sense to try and maintain some order, some continuity.

When I first heard about plans to build the auditorium I thought that we were building another Mormon Tabernacle or a Temple. Why did we need a big building when we fellowshipped in the home? I never gave a cent. Another time I recall some TWI bigwig, maybe Ralph D discussing how it would be named "The Victor Paul Wierwille Word Over The World Auditorium" and Wierwille got mad and stomped out, only to be later "convinced" by Howard Allen that it was appropriate. What crap. It was Wierwille's playground, if he really didn't want his name on it, it wouldn't have been there.

Rascal: Would you please step over to Private Topics? :D-->

For any who think that the big, bad Way Corps were nothing but an impediment to "the movement of the Word", did you think that Wierwille wanted your blessed little fellowship to remain independent? Do you think that he didn't know that Corps grads and interim Corps trainees were going out and replacing non-Corps as fellowship leaders? Did you think that Wierwille developed the Way Corps as anything other than as a mechanism for control? The abusive, controlling "Corps-Nazis" were just those who saw what was expected of them and did it. Expected by who? Wierwille, of course. After PFAL was filmed, and a few key people started running with it, growth came without much oversight. The Way Corps didn't spring up spontaneously, Wierwille created it. The "I'm better than you" attitude didn't come out of nowhere, it was a logical and natural outgrowth of Wierwille's need to control and his no-it-all mindset that was enshrined in PFAL.

Good idea. Since we're spread all over the continent, maybe state or regional get togethers the same weekend would be cool...get group pics taken and posted. I have decided to put my discretionary income into getting some debt paid off (all of it by September) and saving up for some changes later in the year, rather than my usual travelling, so I will be unable to attend anything too far from home. However there are several GSers in neighboring states who it would be convenient to go see, and I think I could figure out how to host something modest.

Bob, those were my legs you were shaving