Oakspear

The writers of post-biblical church history, the faction that eventually became the Catholic Church, didn't consider Timothy to be that big a deal, he wasn't one of the twelve apostles, hence, few if any legends or speculation about his life. You don't hear anything about Barnabas, Silas, Agabus, etc, but there are legends galore about Thomas, Philip, etc. Many early churches claim to have been founded by one of the twelve http://www.tntt.org/vni/tlieu/saints/St0126.htm http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14727b.htm TWI taught that Timothy was the successor to Paul as leader of the church

I always wondered how their history books handled that. I don't know if they've forgotten, more like denial. A nightmare- to them- they wish they could forget. They just pretend that unpleasant things didn't happen. The only thing that "failed" that ever got brought up was the so-called "zero Corps".

He was not... ...funny ...a dancer ...able to execute martial arts moves

They seem to have forgotten about Caballero and Townsend

I wasn't at the "inauguration and installation" of the 2nd prez of TWI, but I used to have a tape of the highlights, including Martindale's account of how he "got in The Word" back in his college days. The way he tells it (and IMHO, his account was a sincere and truthful one) he began having serious doubts about salvation during his last year or two in college, despite being the head of at least one Campus Christian group. Getting more involved by going on a missionary type of thing to New York and other things only made the perceived emptiness even more deep. According to his account, Donnie Fugit's and later Wierwille's teaching showed him that it was possible to have definite answers about salvation. By the time he took PFAL, he no longer spent every day fearing that he was going to hell. TWI & PFAL hooked him...he bought into it 100%. I'm sure that he believed that he literally owed his life and sanity to Wierwille. No wonder he was so into it, no wonder he was so loyal, so willing to do anything for the cause. Buying into the whole scam of Wierwille as MOG laid the groundwork for believing that his own position was ordained of God, and that he could do no wrong. His own weaknesses blossomed as he was able to act with virtually no restarints for much of his reign

Train up a child in the way he shall go, and when he is old he will not depart from it (Hey, just because I'm not a bible believin' guy, doesn't mean that I don't think there's good stuff in there :D-->) I have six children. The two oldest were my ex-wife's from her first marriage, the other four I contributed DNA to :o-->. When I separated from and later divorced my wife on the heels of my expulsion from TWI, only one of my children would talk to me. I wasn't the perfect dad (who is?), but they were convinced by their mom that I was a jerk worthy of "mark & avoid". Periodically I get letters from my late-teens daughter explaining why she thinks I am such a jerk. But over the last half year the older ones have come around. My oldest (who I swear would have slit my throat if he had the chance ) and I have reconciled. My second oldest and his girlfriend socialize with Reikilady & I from time to time(we had them over on Mothers' Day) and he and I have a few adult beverages together on Monday nights at "Open Stage" at a local watering hole. I've been told on several occassions recently, by my sons, that I was a good dad. I guess the moral to the story is that we have to just do the best that we can. They'll appreciate it or not when they're young; but adulthood brings a whole new perspective.

Congrats! -->

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Happy Birthday!

BOOKS - Read the Simarillion (aka the Elven telephone directory) & LOTR series more than once. I had read most of the Star Trek books until they started putting them out in a series of four or more books. Science fiction: Asimov, Heinlein, C.J. Cherryh, L.E. Moddessit. I've read The Silmarillion about six times over the years and read LOTR about once every two years MOVIES - Seen all the LOTR, Star Wars, Star Trek, and even the Harry Potter movies. Especially likes the behind-the-scenes clips on the DVDs. I like stupid movies: Starskey & Hutch, Meet the Parents, Clerks, all the Pink Panther movies, Get Shorty & Be Cool. I also like science fiction, LOTR, etc 'PUTERS - Knows how to read & write in binary and hexidecimal. (Haven't sat for my A+ cert yet, but hopes to, soon.) Gets excited about wireless networks. No geekdom here for me, but I do write a pretty mean spreadsheet MUSIC - Listens to some techno pop and still owns vinyl albums. Knows who OMD is. Loves the Bee Gees. Blues, fusion jazz, 70's rock. Muddy Waters, Danny Gatton, Roy Bucahnan, Morphine, Good Charlotte, Chris Duarte, Aerosmith, Deep Purple, Blues Traveler are current favorites. PETS - Owns cats. (Or is it the other way around?) [bv] My only pets are two plants[/b] WORK - I like my job because I get to work with statistics, design presentations, and read gross medical reports. The grocery business - what can I say? I'm around food all day! MODE OF TRANSPORTATION -A customized (work in progress) PT Cruiser, Limited Edition, silver. Refuses to own a mini-van! 1987 Cutlass fake-wood-sided staion wagon, named "Big Woody" TRAVEL - Haven't done much for recreational purposes. Spent a couple of days at the Smithsonian once on vacation as a teen - would love to go back! (For a month!) Love to travel, especially in my wowmobile! Like driving more than flying, but flying works better when I don't have a lot of time. Ask Reikilady sometime about me in the airport S/O - Married to a math teacher AND loves to hear him talk about work. My sweetie posts here and I love her...what more can be said?

Galen & Jim: Asimov fans! Cool!

Yo! Lingo! Check your PT's

How did people ever communicate before they invented the cell phone? -->

I sat there scratching my head through large sections of it. Usually the "answers" to any questions were merely quotes from WayAP thrown back at you, or a look that said "what? you don't get it?"John Reynolds told me to ask my region coordinator, TH, my questions, since he would be "working the word" in preparation for teaching WayAP live. TH's response was that he didn't need to work the word: if the class was good enough for the Trustees, who approved it's use, it was good enough for him. His specific response to my analysis of Martindale's teaching on the original sin of mankind was that even if Martindale's teaching couldn't be backed up by specific scripture, "it must be right, because of what we know about homosexuality". Oh yeah, another thing: I recall us being directed to call WayAP "The Way Class" if we didn't use the full title - I guess too many people were calling it WAP (pronounced whapp)

In some ways they are smartening up. As Wierwille was as bad as Martindale in many respects, (he hid it better, and was much better at P.R.) Rivenbark & Co. are trying to keep a lower profile, I believe that RFR running things while not being the public face has less to do with her excruciating teaching style than with the decision to no longer focus all the attention on one individual.

There were not a lot of WayAP classes run before I got kicked out in 2001. I believe that the last year that PFAL was run in TWI was the 94/95 "ministry year", right after the WOW program was cancelled and right before the ROA was canned. WayAP was run for PFAL grads only in 95/96, with the Way Corps going first, and was run for new people in 96/97. Our state ran two grad classes in January and February 1996, and did not scrape up enough people until over three years later, in June of 1999. Included in the class were three PFAL grads who had just started participating in TWI after several years away, the new wife of one of these grads, and my son's girlfriend. In 2001 we ran a "live" class. New students were the girlfriend of another young man in our fellowship, an immigrant from Togo who was a PFAL grad, and two children of grads. No really new people. To be fair, despite back-to-back PFAL classes in the 70's and 80's, the 90's did not see a lot of PFAL action. A class was run in 1990 with eight people, five who were children of grads. Another class did not run until over three years later; one of my sons had been paid up for two years when he took it. The next classes was not until two years after that, when we managed to run three classes of seven people each in one year. Other than one family, no one stuck around much past session 12.

When I was in, I would not have admitted that what TWI was requiring was micromanaging either, yet it was. When I was in, I rationalized away the badgering too We would have new memebers (MEMBERS??? ) I used to think so too When I left our fellowship had the following professions: Independent business owner/part owner of a farm; paralegal; railroad worker; nurse; insurance salesman; waitress; sales rep; several staff members at a catering firm; dry waller; auto mechanic; stay-at-home mom; plumber, etc. So what? --> So, they've rejected everything they've ever taught, huh?

WayAP was 12 sessions, but each session was only two hours.

It was a "bargain" because we got to take it again and again and again? Who really learned new stuff after the first time? Okay, maybe it would take twice before it would all sink in, but this stuff wasn't too complicated, and you had the books and the syllabus.

Both Wierwille and Martindale played fast and loose with definitions of Greek and Hebrew words. Wierwille spent hours of teaching in PFAL convincing you that he knew what he was talking about. How many sessions does he say basically the same thing over and over: The bible is God's Word and is error-free in the original? It's got to be most of the first three sessions, 7 or 8 hours. He did it by starting simple: reading straight from the bible. When he came to a subject where he differed from mainstream Christianity, he still started out by "reading what was written". It wasn't until session four that he started reaching into his bag of tricks with moving commas and interlinears and shifty definitions. But by then, he had established himself as being a straight shooter, interested only in getting back to "the Word"; he built trust in himself and mistrust of the churches. By session twelve he could have told us anything and we'd have believed him. We believed his definitions, his claims about what "the original" said, and his questionable interpretations because he had laid a foundation. Martindale laid no such foundation. Not only did his wacky definitions and doctrines seem crazy to most people with enough gray matter to tip a postal scale, but they did not stand up to the so-called research principles that he was supposedly peddling.

Sure, but my opinion on the benefits of oxygenated water will be worth about as much as anybody else's...not much, if it's based solely on trying a few bottles. By the way, I have checked all the grocery stores in town and have not found any Penta water, or anything else that labels itself as "oxygen saturated" or anything other than "water". There are a few health food and natural food stores I haven't checked yet though, but with the mention of all the grocery stores carrying Penta, I would have thought I could have found some. After all, grocery stores carry what sells. Oh, I've read the whole thread Davey-boy. Your droning is good bedtimes reading, puts a guy to sleep real effectively. Hmmm...read the whole thread? How about this: And that's a warning against medical-grade oxygen cylinders, which are supposed to be filled under much more scrutinized conditions than your local welding-supply shop! For those interested, here's the whole FDA article: FDA Medical Gas Requirements David, you are an ignorant poser who needs to shut the hell up before your stupidity kills an innocent victim before it kills you. In case you're wondering, he didn't say that drinking oxy-water could kill you, just listening to your ignorant spoutings about pressurized oxygen Maybe because he has no evidence to believe it does, and looks for evidence unlike some windbag engineers around here No, but I do get to have an opinion. I am the expert on pizza (Raf - do you ever go to Applebee's? They have a blasphemous Thai "pizza" - what's this world coming to?) Oh, it was DECLARED controversial by one doctor --> I did not use the word "experts" in this thread. As we have been waiting for evidence that it does. You generally can't prove a negative.

Oops...Forty FIVE...one of the cardboard cutouts in the auditorium turned out to be real

News Flash...there are now only 44 people in TWI: they M&A'd a couple who questioned leadership and one of the ventriloquists turned out to be gay

In the mid-nineties Martindale decided to replace PFAL with a new foundational class, eventually named "The Way of Abundance and Power" (WayAP) Aside from whether or not either class was "biblically accurate", or contained truth of any kind, why was PFAL so apparently successful, and WayAP such a flop? One reason, IMHO, was that PFAL had been in existance for fifteen + years when it was filmed; Wierwille had years to work out the bugs and to refine it. Martindale threw it together in less than a year. Another is that PFAL was the TWI foundational class during a time of large growth, fueled by an enthusiastic response to "The Word" by mostly high school and college kids. WayAP was being promoted mostly by grey-haired middle-aged folks, who had lawns to mow and kids' activities to attend as well as careers, with priorities other than witnessing, witnessing witnessing, from morning until dark, from Novato California all the way to Floral Park. PFAL was designed to build from one segment to the next. Wierwille actually tried to convince you of the truth of what he was saying. He also didn't spend an inordinate amount of time shoving the "controversial" doctrines down yout throat. If you aren't paying attention, or haven't been atending twigs, you might let "Jesus Christ is Not God" slip by you in the quick discussion of John 1:1, same with the dead not being alive buried in the teaching about puncuation. It's there, but it's not being beat over your head. Martindale, on the other hand, never misses an opportunity to let you know what an idiot you are for believing that the dead are alive, that Jesus is God, or that abortion is murder. He makes no attempt to convince, or to teach, but lectures in a holier-than-thou manner. He even makes the statement like this in the segment on the first sin of mankind "You don't see it? Well too bad, I do!" Wierwille's country preacher/kindly father figure act was also much more effective than the abrasive jock persona that was Martindale.

There were at least two major negative outcomes to this plan. 1. Many Way Corps had started businesses, or had built reputations in professions, while still running twigs or branches, or even occassionally limbs. They were required to quit their jobs, or sell their businesses or be dropped from the Way Corps. Some even got dropped for other reasons after a few months after quitting their jobs: a doublke whammy! These people got screwed. 2. Imagine a Corps couple, especially if they had no children. They oversee a branch with two twigs, or maybe a limb with four or five...what do they do with their time? Why, the "oversee" people's lives, of course! All day! Every day!