Oakspear

"There are no scandals...to my knowledge" - what a testimony!

As with anything with its own momentum, it takes a lot more effort to stop it than it does to get it going. But as far as who or what I have a problem with (not hate), it's individuals who crapped on me and mine, not an organization.

After a while, "corporate the entity" takes on a life of its own. Initially, it was VP. Later VP's inner circle. Then Martindale's inner circle. By now it's moving along under it's own momentum (or intertia) regardless of what any individual does

Hmmm...did I misspell a word?

Hence, the appelation "East"

I mean I hate the organization that convinced him to bring all that stuff

I hate that guy who used to sit next to me at Word in Business, carrying a huge briefcase, two clipboards, three bibles, and a Day-Timer.

Wierwille sometimes called something a forgery absent evidence if it contradicted what he taught. Don't know if this was one of those cases

A good comeback! Now THAT I can respect ; - )

Holy wowburgers satori, do you really think that there's anybody out there THAT freakin' stupid? And I doubt that I possess even a fraction of that kind of influence.

My words have been accorded the status of scripture!

So I guess you're saying that God abandoned his "little ones" in this case, since templelady didn't "do what was right". Naw...THAT never happens!Law enforcement and the courts would not have had to be in on it. In a dispute over an innie and an outie spouse, who do you think the TWI "leadership" would back? When you have no friends outside TWI, and you suddenly leave, who are you going to get to back you up? Do you think it's impossible that TWI could produce witness after witness testifying what an awful mother templelady was? Pretty f---'n presumptuous.

He was VP from Rosie's elevation through this year

disrupting, I mean (or maybe dissitating)

My posts are best understood in the context of my earlier posts, and not out of context. I remarked that I saw some of what was going on on this thread as "hero worship", perhaps too strong a term, but the best I could come up with at the time. I do believe that many of us ex-wayfers look at Mrs. Wierwille as someone "at the top" who never screwed us over, was always nice and sweet and giving, and therefore a possible reason to believe that there was some purity in the organization at one time. Hanging on to this gives us a reason to think we weren't total idiots for being involved in an organization that we now know was deceitful and abusive on so many levels. A poster on another thread recalled when Mrs. Wierwille was told by some people who were leaving TWI that they still loved her. This poster recalled that Mrs. W reproved them, suggesting that it wasn't really love, agape, if they were rejecting the ministry that she stood with. I heard similar remarks from her at a Word in Business in the early 90's. I don't know why she did what she did or said what she did, and will never know. While I disagree with Raf about it being none of our business, I would not badger her family, especially at this late date. Nonetheless, the putting-on-a-pedestal (perhaps a better term than "hero worship) of Mrs. Wierwille, in light of her public, and convincing stand in support of Martindale, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Another development on this thread was the speculation about her memorial service. One poster stated that an open service would take place in St. Mary's, and another mentioned a burial "next to her husband", which means on TWI grounds. One poster gushed about innies and outies hugging each other, and to me seemed to be describing the service as a great coming-together of the current wayfers and the legions of ex-wayfers. Another poster mentioned how TWI controlled access to their grounds. It was in this context that I mentioned tens of thousands of people marching to TWI. Heck, in the fantasized utopia of reconciled innies and outies imagined by one of our posters they'd all be milling around hugging and crying, what's a little extra fantasy? So, I'm NOT advocating a "funeral march on TWI", I'm NOT planning on attending myself, nor do I plan on observing in any way, nor disruting it in any way. And by the way, everybody who is speculating on the funeral: she's still ALIVE!!! ...and by the way: I'll "dare" what I choose to...

Hah! Actually, it reminds me of a lot of people

Hmmm....I thought that the "word" being "over the world" meant that you didn't have to "take it" to them. How do we know that "the word" is "over the world"? Because Martindale got "revelation" that it was. The decision to proclaim WOW was not based on anything that you could point your finger at and say "see: the word must be over the world!", but on the word of a man who couldn't figure out that it was WRONG to have sex with women not his wife.

I think the question applies even to non-Chrsitians.For me, leaving TWI and splitting with my ex-wife were virtually simultaneous. I didn't look for forgiveness from God or Jesus, but from myself. I had learned to be a less-than-stellar example of a husband, father, friend, co-worker, neighbor, in large part (not completely, I do take responsibility for my actions) due to what I had accepted from TWI teachings and practice. First I had to recognize what part that I played in the disaster that my life had become. Only when I recognized my own responsibility could I do anything to change what I could change. Second, I had to see that it wasn't all my fault. That there were some areas where I was deceived and f----d over. I had to refuse to blame myself for the actions of others. Third, I decided to be open to other viewes and versions of spirituality, to start afresh, whether it ultimately led me to atheism, or back to literalist Christianity, or anything in between. I don't know everything, or even very much, but my life and its fruit has been converted, if not in the manner that you mean.

Think about it dmiller, hypothetically of course. Two people, or even a dozen, are not that hard to stop. How many "safety" people does TWI have anyway? Couldn't be more than a double handful, I'd bet. Unless they shot them, how could even a few hundred, marching together, not stopping for anything, be stopped? Oh sure, a few could be detained, but what about the rest? Naturally, I'm not advocating this, gee, that would be trespassing. And that would be bad.

The non-Christians here don't insist that everyone believe their way. We recognize that we are a minority and are likely to stay that way. Most Christians here don't insist on it either.However, there are occassionally Christians who take it upon themselves to "reprove" those who don't believe that they do as if this were a Christian board. Which is why the occasional "this isn't a Christian board" refrain.

YOU'RE b*tching about name calling? How's that for the pot calling the kettle black?Actually a "pinky" isn't anything specific. Where I grew up we would attach a nonsense name to someone that we disagreed with, especially if we thought that person was acting foolishly. "Buckwheat" and "Spanky" are favorites of mine, as is "Zippy". While I respect your opinion and belief about speaking in tongues, and Christianity in general, I have nothing but disdain for the way you get your point across, and for your ignorant attacks on my friend, rascal. The link is posted above by another GSer.

I'm not suggesting this, mind you, my opinions notwithstanding, a funeral/memorial service should be a time for showing love and respect for the deceased and their family...but how would they go about stopping ten thousand people if they decided to march together to the grave site? Or even one thousand?

Another miracle wrought by da one true god!

Yeah, I know what you meant, I was giving pinky the benefit of the doubt. My mistake = - (

Al's quote: What Bramble actually said: The quote is close, but many words are changed. Al's quote puts in a comma, making it appear like "anti-witness" is describing "where I am". Bramble's statement, in my opinion, could have been a smidgeon more clear, but the context indicates pretty clearly that she is not referring to herself, but Al. Read what's written, as a certain cult founder used to say. You are misunderstanding what is being said, then changing the words to better fit your misunderstanding.