shazdancer

LOL, Dovey, you remembered! I will keep my eyes peeled.

Mwah, exy, I'm doing well, but hectic-busy. I will tell you all soon what I've been up to.... Geo, I'm starting to wonder, too. I've seen plenty of good men who are pastors (and plenty who aren't), but when it comes to SuperMOGs... not so much!

The word "arrogance" rings a bell.... Oral's son resigns from ORU Note that this isn't something new, but has been going on for 20 years at ORU.

Mike, "The Exorcist" was only riding the wave of interest in the occult. It was huge all through the 60s. Google Ruth Montgomery, Edgar Cayce, Anton Szandor LaVey, Bishop James Pike, and I'm sure there were many others.

WTH, I'm more than willing to call government corrupt, too. But right now, I'm talkin' about religion, specifically TWI. Sox, as always, priceless. Allow me to rephrase you for this "About the Way" thread... "Religion is the best deal going though - just ask The Way BOD (and it began with Wierwille). Money, freebies, no-taxes....You don't actually OWN anything, you just have the ACCESS to anything you need. Plus, you get to be a Big Cheese, make people happy, laugh, feel good! What's not to like?" -- Shaz

Mike, I must admit, I prefer the "kinder, gentler" approach you take these days. But your attempts to one-up the "class" with your knowledge of PFAL is still silly. Even if we knew PFAL cold, it still would not make our lives one iota better. However, your question to Tom... The picture isn't "long-forgotten" to me, just irrelevant. VPW taught that God could reveal to you if someone had a devil spirit, God's holy spirit, or simply his own spirit, meaning that he was an alive natural man who hadn't accepted either spirit, a body-and-soul man only. If anyone forgot these things, it was because we were enthralled with the idea of having power over devil spirits. TWI leaders were happy to feed into our fascination with demons. Wierwille himself would often tell us how God showed him this or that, or how this guy or that guy was sold out to the adversary, and we'd all think, "Wow, Doctor is so spiritual." Wierwille also taught that psychic surgery was real, as was ectoplasm. He was just doing his carnival barker best to get us to pay the big bucks to learn more. Only he was really just the Wizard of Oz, and we didn't need him to get to Kansas.

Wow, you guys just don't get it. Let me 'splain. These churches have declared themselves not-for-profit and tax exempt. By definition, their funds have to go into furthering the purpose of the organization. By law, they have to file federal tax form 990 to account for where their tax-free money gets spent. The reason they are allowed to operate like this is that their purposes have been deemed by We The People to be worth the tax break. We are willing to pay our share of taxes to make up for what they don't pay. They are NOT a private corporation, and we are NOT "invading their privacy." They are a public entity that is fulfilling a public service that some of us support with our donations, and the rest of support with our share of taxes. Now, if Joyce Meyer gets paid a certain salary by the organization to preach, and she pays taxes from that salary, and she wants to buy herself a $20K toilet, fine. But I might be checking to know under what criteria she merits such a big salary that a $20K toilet seat is affordable for her. Because if it can be determined that a 501 ( c)(3) is in business mainly to make money for someone, they can lose their non-profit status. However, if Meyer deeded her home over to the corporation, and that non-profit corporation is buying said toilet for her private use, now we have a bigger problem. And so does she. And by extension, if the BOD of The Way International is living high on the hog out of proportion to the service they provide, they should be answerable to all of us. The short 'splanation: this is not about their doctrine, this is about squandering the public trust.

From the LA Times It's about time. -- Shaz

Congrats, Galen and Bonnie! Jake and I did make it up there today, but not until late in the afternoon, about an hour before closing. He loved it, I loved it, and we will make the time next year, God willing, and spend a full day. Beautiful countryside, and a beautiful day to spend at the fair this year.

Aw, Wacky, you mean I missed ya? I will be going tomorrow, I think. I had other plans for today and could only make it on Sunday. Oooh, and I love blooming onions!

I dunno, I'm always tempted to say, "What?"

I also had heard VPW SIT occasionally, as part of getting riled up and "inspired" during a teaching, and it always sounded like the PFAL one. Even back then, it was a bit of a joke among the believers that he sounded so contrived. I guess it was just another of those things we were willing to overlook in him, because he taught us "The Word." Can't recall hearing VPW interpret anywhere other than in a TIP class. And I never heard Howard manifest. -- Shaz

I have GOT to go this year! I don't know yet if it will be Saturday or Sunday, but I will go, and wear my GS T-shirt. Come up and say "hi!"

Maybe not, Geo. She's been positively Freudian. This one kills me... "I think I flatlined his intentions..." I don't think it was his intentions that got "flatlined," likeaneagle!

Hey, Bread and Puppets is practically family, mstar. Founder Peter Schumann's wife Ellie is E. Wh1tes1de's sister. As for me, I've been to the Clearwater Festival a few times, lots of folk/bluegrass/world beat music, fancy crafts, and good-for-you food. http://www.clearwater.org/revival/aboutfestival.html And I've been to this one (a smorgasbord of arts), performed in it once a ways back: http://www.sonoarts.org/index.html

Hey nandon, If it's any consolation, sounds like this woman either tried to or did hook up long before you did. Telling her what you did will only open the discussion up to a lot of nastiness. Just move out and move on. Nice to know you still have your conscience, though!

From Catcup: I think that sums up my experience as well. Some people believed it that they were to be self-governing. I remember thinking that some of the "guidelines" that came out of Ohio were meant as just that, guidelines that you could choose to do if you thought they would help, chuck 'em if they didn't. It was also a matter of degree. When there weren't a lot of bosses, it was easy to ignore the few that were being bossy. They couldn't stay on top of everyone. Later, I suppose there were so many Corps needing something to do, micromanagement became inevitable.

I disagree somewhat with the idea of "corrupt at the root, corrupt throughout." I think there were plenty of people with a genuine love for God and people, who got into TWI on "the field," far from headquarters. They could keep the fellowship sweet, meet needs, and fellowship with a minimum of interference. At least at first. Like Rascal said, had we known what it was like at headquarters, perhaps many would have left sooner. For me, once I lived at RC for a year, I knew that all was not good, even without being privvy to the sex stuff. When I finally got it that it came straight from Wierwille, it wasn't hard to leave, as I'd promised myself that if TWI stopped being for God, I'd stop being for TWI. It was only later that I learned that TWI had never been much about God in the first place. I think that staff at Headquarters had become the frog in the slowly heating pot of water. People stayed so long isolated from "the world" that they didn't know that life was sweeter on the outside. Many saw trouble, but felt they could stop it by staying with "the ministry that taught me the Word" and working from the inside for change. Didn't work that way, because the inside was trying to boil them, slowly, so they wouldn't notice.

WOO_HOO!

Back when I was in, we used to imagine having one of those levers that could open up a trap door in the floor, sort of like in Austin Powers, and swallow up any turkeys. Can't conduct the song in 3/4 time? Whomp! Botched your tongues with interpretation? Buh Bye! Helped keep my head on straight. :D :D

Oh girl, you know I hear you! I'm glad you were able to vent about it here. It sux when they lie to their own children. But the truth is, they're really just trying to convince themselves. Very sad.

I met Wierwille a buncha times, too. And I think he was a jerk in reverend's clothing. I tried really hard not to believe that of him, and I certainly didn't start out thinking of him that way. But his actions spoke louder than his words. Signed, Another moron

Wet blanket alert.... I am not Jewish, but my understanding is that "yid" is a pejorative term. To notice that your username could be abbreviated to that is amusing. But to want to keep it as a username would be bad taste, IMHO. Insert any other nasty slang term for a minority, and I think you'll see what I mean. Your name might just send a message you don't want to send. Not like my name -- now, EVERYbody understands my username!

Not afraid of checking them out, Oldies. But not afraid of telling them what I thought, either. Could be fun....

Georgio, reminds me of a co-worker who was complaining that he'd been proselytized at the library. There's an arrogance, sometimes disguised as godliness, that says, "Of course I can interrupt your life and your sensibilities, because my message is more important than you." That's kinda what I get out of your being told to tell these jokes at school. Did they forget what is was like to be a kid? (Don't answer that, I think I know.) Either that, or they were so removed from the real world, that they really thought this stuff was funny! I heard the "teach me Ephesians" joke when I was in, and I thought it was funny, but in a way that brings Wierwille down a peg, the idea being that Vic's explanations are so slick that even God Himself isn't sure He grasps the greatness of what He wrote. It reminded me not to put the Vicster up so high.