shazdancer

Hi Rightsideup, It has been my experience that people who want to behave a certain way often gravitate to groups that will justify what they already want to do. That holds true with men who want to abuse. The key phrase in your proceedings should always be, "In the best interest of the children." Prove that, and you win. Many people have raised kids in TWI without harming them. Others have caused harm while in TWI. It is more important to show how the spouse behaved (perhaps because of cult beliefs) and show that the spouse is likely to continue behaving that way, than to prove that the spouse is in a cult. Document everything that you can. Save letters, record events, get witnesses. First and foremost, keep yourself and your kids safe. Assume that he will not give up his power easily, and don't be surprised at how nasty he can be. The more calm, firm and in control you can be, the better. Best wishes for you and yours. -- Shaz

George, that was funny! "you get your wife and dog back...New Age is still New Age..." Kimberly, you mean palindromes. Like, "Madam, I'm Adam" and "name no one man" and "able was I ere I saw Elba." I love that stuff. Funny, Mike! {Warning: complete derail:} Sox, I mostly notice the tone thing when I'm listening to the radio. Sometimes I'm thinking, "What is wrong with my radio signal?" or "I don't remember a modulation in that verse." Some Top 40 has assumed a twelve-tone Stravinsky influence. :D Because of the hearing loss, hearing speech has now become a combination for me of speech, lip-reading, the musicality of what is spoken (I totally know what you mean), and body language (reading movement was always my thing). Ambient noise (busy restaurant, loud HVAC) means I often can't understand what is said at all, even with 2 hearing aids in. Whispering is unintelligible. It's sometimes frustrating, and a long day of meetings can be tiring. Synthesesia, wow! Do you feel that your melody or harmony choices are influenced by the colors you perceive? Do harmonious tones correspond to colors that go together, or is there no particular rhyme or reason to which colors go with which pitch? {Back to the topic} And yeah, the pitch, stress, and lilt of language backwards is completely different than forwards. I like the idea of converting a sentence to a melody. I had done some experimenting with translating words to movement, and the musicality of a sentence into movement -- moving up and down with pitch, fast and slow, emphatic or monotone. We are such emotional creatures, even in the moment of a single sentence. There ya go, Shaz

Socks, I love Oliver Sacks! And his book Musicophilia actually describes something weird I have. I have some hearing loss and tinnitus since a couple of bouts of Lyme disease. I remember picking up the phone receiver (I have a land line), and thinking, "What's wrong with this phone? The dialtone sounds low." Then one day, I switched it to my other ear. It sounded higher. I actually hear a half-tone lower than true pitch out of my left ear. If I concentrate, I can hear the true pitch from both ears (it may be like having a dominant eye), like the book describes. But sometimes, music on the radio sounds totally dissonant! Strange how the ear-mind connection works. -- Shaz

Wierwille was already becoming marginalized by 1980. Here's the background. That was the summer that my first husband and I had been given jobs on staff at Rome City. But when my husband decided to get drunk at the ROA, he went to Wierwille for guidance, then came home to announce that we were being transferred to Phoenix. I was livid, and I tried the next day to see Wierwille. I was not allowed to speak to him, but got as far as Don and JAL. JAL said something that resonated with me. He told me that since my husband had gone to Wierwille, there was nothing he could do, but that "it didn't have to be done that way." I took it to mean that it all could have been kept from him, and the outcome would have been different. I think Wierwille chose LCM because he wanted a perfect disciple, the perfect narcissist's foil. He had it in Howard, until Howard betrayed him. Others worked around him, and he knew it. I watched Wierwille trying to groom LCM in 1979 while we were in the Corps. I doubt Wierwille cared much what happened to the ministry beyond his death. He just wanted to die on a pedestal. I think LCM knew he was in line for the presidency, so he knew enough to play along. Heck, maybe he really thought that transferring the mantle to him meant he now spoke for God. -- Shaz

Geo, I missed what you wrote, but I just hope you get it that both genders have their share of jerks, women don't hold a monopoly on that. I'm really sorry for what happened to you. As for me, I never just announced one day that I was leaving. Quite the opposite, I spent way too long trying to communicate, going to family counseling, etc. The narcissist was so odd that I thought he might be autistic, and truly not know how to communicate. Nah, he heard just fine, he just didn't want to listen. Notta, I agree that Wayfers in particular felt committed to keeping the marriage together, because of their adherence to Christian beliefs, strengthened by Wierwille's verdict that "any two believers can make a marriage work." I disagree that people stay in a bad marriage because they become "comfortable" with being miserable. Wierwille used to promulgate that myth by saying that abused women had a spirit of masochism, and liked being abused. Having spoken to many people in abusive relationships, virtually none of them wanted to be in one. Many were afraid of what would happen to them, physically or financially, if they left. Some wrestled with their faith, or the impact leaving would have on their kids. Many still held out hope that the abuser would somehow "see the light" go back to being the sweet person who they knew before. Excy, you cracked me up! Yup, all my fault, AND I'm probably bitter, too! But as hard as it's been, I got the better deal. I have two amazing daughters that the exes didn't see grow up. When the oldest got married, she didn't invite her father, but asked me to walk her down the aisle. The youngest kid shows signs of being the man his father couldn't be bothered to be. I guess I'd rather be a good person who trusts too much than a bad person who trusts not at all. Merry Christmas, Shaz

From George St George: "Inability to pick" described me quite nicely. Two husbands, and one 5-year relationship. One alcoholic, one narcissist, and one mean sunuvaB. I told my daughters if I ever thought about a guy again, I would send them his résumé for their consideration, since I obviously can't see straight. And I for one am tired of hearing that "it takes two to tango" stuff. Sometimes the problem is blindness. When an action can be interpreted more than one way, and you love the person, you give that person the benefit of the doubt. You make excuses for them, because, sice they love you, they couldn't possibly have meant to be hurtful. It took me years with each one to stop making excuses, and to entertain the notion that perhaps they were not really who they wanted me to believe them to be. The only other thing I wanted to say is that we often want to think of people as basically good, but with occasional flaws. It's hard for us to understand that there really are mean people in the world. Although narcissists, sociopaths, and other personality-disordered people are on a continuum, there is a basic difference between the pure narcissist and the pure sociopath (who they now call "antisocial"): the narcissist doesn't care how you're feeling. It's all about the narcissist's feelings -- you are just there to feed the narcissism or be cast aside. The N thrives on your adoration. The sociopath, on the other hand, thrives on your pain. The S knows what it takes to bring you down and revels in having power over you, be it emotional, financial, physical, etc. It is like a drug to the S; and unfortunately, the S may need bigger and bigger conquests to achieve a "high." -- Shaz

And don't forget your public libraries, which may have free or low-cost computer classes, manga groups, games, programs, and homework help. Oh yeah, they have books, too.... http://www.mppl.org/teens/index.html And be sure and ask the teen librarian to recommend dynamic people who can come teach stuff to your kids. They have to hire program presenters, too, often with no budget, so they know who's good, and cheap!

I recall seeing the original dance that later sparked the big production. It was during the time when Wierwille was first pushing this "athletes" thing, his reinterpretation of Ephesians 6. He said that he would like to see some of those things depicted in the arts, as they could be made much more vivid. I suppose the choreographer's original attempt was a response to that suggestion -- which was supposed to be taken as a command, of course. I don't recall any of the battle with devils thing that was put in the later production. I could be wrong, it was a long time ago, but I think I would have recalled the choreographer as seductress and writhing demons! So that stuff about someone from Staying Alive seeing the original is bogus, as the original wasn't anything like Staying Alive. And we were taught in TWI that the adversary was in the 5 senses realm, and could only counterfeit something that had been in the 5 senses realm. So Staying Alive could not have been a counterfeit or AOS, since Staying Alive came first. And yeah, sounds like TWI could have had their butts sued, and since Staying Alive certainly registered their copyright, they could have lost a bundle (a fine of up to $100K and any profits made from the production). -- Shaz

I'm also thinking about the circumstances when the slander occurred. The people getting slandered were generally Corps, without means or even a decent résumé if they should leave TWI. If they wanted to stay in, a lawsuit would get them kicked out and ostracized. If they left, they were most likely struggling to survive, with no bucks to put to the rent, let alone a lawyer. Lawsuits cost money, with no guarantee of winning. Bullies don't push around contemporaries. They go after those least able to fight back.

3 Cents reads my mail. :) Yes, your child may work harder at pleasing his mother, because he is worried that she might reject him the way she rejected you. If you are the custodial parent (and sometimes even when you're not), he might test the boundaries more with you, because he is not afraid of you rejecting him. It doesn't make dealing with him any easier, just understandable. On the other hand, him telling you that his mom doesn't like you, makes me think that he is one smart little guy, who will grasp that things are slightly different at Mom's house and at Dad's, and who will figure out how to take the best of both of you and leave the rest behind.

Aw, shoot, Chas, I'm totally eating my heart out for not making it, it sounds like a lot of fun. But as I was a complete vegetable even through the next day, it was the right decision. My apologies for having to bow out. I'm feeling sort of hermit-like. I gotta get out more. :D -- Shaz

And to once again set the record straight... VP got his master's at Princeton Theological Seminary, not Princeton University. Now, PTS is a real seminary, still is, and churns out real pastors. (One of our Greasespotters went there post-TWI.) But it isn't PRINCETON. And yes, in that long quote, the words in quotation marks were Research Geek's, but the words following were Mike's.

Read True Notebooks by Mark Salzman, for some good stuff on teaching writing to incarcerated teens. Like your situation, the kids were starved for genuine adult praise. There are lots of lesson plans out on the Internet, so Google "lesson plans high school" and start browsing. I suppose the trick would be to make this stuff relevant, and then it would be interesting for the kids. History: history is made when people make decisions at crucial times. Describe the context of the event and get inside the heads of the people who made history, and I think you will be teaching valuable lessons about decision making, ethics, and independence. Literature: like history makers, every writer has a background and a vision. To teach about world authors is to teach diversity as well as history and culture. Incorporate music, art, and dance forms from all over, and you have taught that communication is more than just talking. Show them how an idea and an expression springs from a culture. Science: at its best, it is deadly honest. It sees what is, and reports on what is seen, not what one wants to see or how one thinks it ought to be. Science also shows us the interconnectedness of life. We can't live it alone, even if we wanted to. Resources? 1. Your local library -- if they don't have it, I betcha they can find who does. 2. The Library of Congress online -- http://www.loc.gov/index.html -- oh my. 3. The National Endowment for the Humanities -- http://www.neh.gov/ -- find out who in your area has the Picturing America series, a great way to teach US history through art. The pictures are 20" X 30" and laminated, real nice. Otherwise, all the materials, including Powerpoints of the artwork and the teacher's guide, are on the website. 4. Encyclopedia Britannica Online -- again, check your library to see if they have it in their online databases. Britannica ONline has 3 levels of detail for different reading abilities, but has videos and links for just about any topic. 5. TeacherXpress -- http://www.teacherxpress.com/ -- lots and LOTS of links. Best wishes, Shaz

Hi Vickles, Think of blogging like a message board (Greasespot), accept that you (or those you choose) are the only one who can start a thread. Depending on how you set up your blog, others may or may not be allowed to respond. Since you are the one who has to start a new topic, you are the star of the show. A blog can be anything from sharing news of your profession or hobby to an online diary of your day. The most recent topic loads at the top of your webpage, so older discussions die off fairly quickly in this format. You can hunt around on Technorati and just read some blogs to get a feel for what you like, and how you might like your own to look. Since you already know how to negotiate Greasespot, you should have no trouble setting up and running a blog, for as long as you choose to. Have fun! -- Shaz (actually has 2 blogs running as adjuncts to her digital library)

I agree with Frank. The Wierwille family did not inherit the TWI money, nor even the farm. The non-profit has it, the BOD is in control of it. So how does one cash in on the legacy of a dead man? Ah, former followers!

Hi T-Bone, Back in my dancing days, we did the "what does your character eat for breakfast" exercise in acting class, to develop depth of character. Same idea as yours -- just thinking through who the character is. We have an author coming to our library ot talk about what he does to flesh out a character. Should be interesting. But if he says he uses the enneagram, I think I will LOL!

Thanks for the referral to a more scientific test, ex10. The enneagram is pop psych junk, so have fun, but don't take it seriously. There is a new guy running local government near me who required all the town department heads to look up their enneagram and report on it. Then they also had to report an incident where they had not been good managers. Can we say, From Birth to the Corps?

If they ever got honest, they would have to step down, and kiss the lifestyle they've been leading good-bye. Sadly, they are able to live with themselves.

The disrespect of this hit me, Stay off the Internet. You don't have enough spiritual perception and awareness (Way Corps) or ability to separate truth from error (PFAL), even though we supposedly taught them to you. We don't trust you to understand. So we have to spin it, er, explain it to you. And if you don't read anything else, you might just believe us. -- Shaz PS -- And don't get me started on that "wife ran the household" remark!

Stand in the gap for his people??? Sheesh, I thought that was Jesus' job, which he completed, so that there was no longer a separation between God and man. Silly me -- no, silly VP.

Yeah, rhino, even given some delay in development due to training so hard, a couple of those 16 year-old Chinese gymnasts look awfully 11 years old to me. Using younger gymnasts may give a team an edge, since they may be lighter and have a more even distribution of muscles and fat, but mainly because they have less fear of what they are doing. However, their less-mature judgment makes them more prone to having a catastrophic accident at the top levels. There is also an argument that the younger gymnast has not yet developed the maturity to process the mental pressure in a healthy way. I'd rather have an athlete win a silver medal safely than kill herself going for the gold.

That would be June Lockhart.

I thought the opening ceremonies were pretty amazing. Hey, when the games were in the US, did we include what we did to our indigenous peoples and minorities? I'm not trying to compare the two countries politically, only to suggest that of course the opening ceremonies is about propaganda. But in spite of the politicking, the Games is still about people working very hard to be their best. ...and women's gymnastics starts tonight, woohoo!

Hi nowyousee, I agree, Wierwille set up a culture where there was a pecking order to who was the most "spiritually heavy," meaning that his SP&A trumped everyone else's. I think it took him years to develop it. He taught people about how God spoke to him directly, establishing a firmer hold on revvy than most of us right from the beginning. Then he talked about going to the racetrack, and standing on street corners practicing discerning of spirits, etc. In other words, we can't keep up with his level, he's been honing this thing much longer than we have, we are neophytes. I recall that in the early years of the "groovy Christian" era, he tried to discern spirits in someone who had fainted. Well, that kind of showy stuff can get you into trouble when it is learned that the person didn't eat well that morning or had the flu, so in later years he seemed to rely more on the kinds of revvy that no one could verify, like the "I know you spies are in here" revvy he did one year at the Rock, or the possessed country band I talked about earlier. Anything to prove that the man of God still had more SP&A than anyone, and no one could prove otherwise.

Hey Mr. Argyles, I know that feeling of being in the creative zone, and of having ideas and insights just kind of "pop" into the mind. I think it is an extension of what was learned before, and the brain finding new ways to make connections. Sort of like: A=B in one part of the brain and C+D=B in another, and one day you realize that you could use C+D instead of A, and it feels like the idea came out of nowhere. The brain just hadn't fired up those synapses yet. Yet they were there all the time. Or, to put it another way, Mozart had wonderful insights, but he didn't compose in rock and roll. I have also had that "pick thoughts out of the ether" feeling stripped from me when I was ill with neurological Lyme disease. The difference is quite amazing, being unable to recall a word, a task, a face, or a location without deliberate effort, and often not at all. Having that ability return little by little feels nothing short of miraculous. So what is SP&A? Revelation? Random synapse firing? Wishful thinking? Or all of the above, depending on the parson doing it and their motivations? Thanks for playing, Shaz