shazdancer

Well, Oak, there was one time when the BOD owned up that their president had made a boo-boo... That was when they threw Craiggers out on his tushy. They told everyone he had to step down because he had committed adultery. They sort of FORGOT to say there was more than one woman, they sort of FORGOT to say there was intimidation involved, and they sort of FORGOT to apologize! Rosalie also "forgot" to say that she had known about the abuse for a long time... but the judge made sure to get that information into the record. Regards, Shaz

Mike, During my year in Rome City, one of the classes on leading a Twig proposed the question: What if a copped out leader came to your Twig? Well, a hush came over the room. No one seemed to know what they would do, or at least, they didn't want to venture a guess. But it seemed obvious to me. "I would have no problem with them being in my meeting, just like any other person wanting to attend," I said. "But they would not be put in a position of authority." In other words, it would be my meeting, and they would need to show their ability and readiness to humbly resume responsibility before I would give them any. I still feel the same way. Shaz

Dear Paradiseden, The Ways Corps motto was supposed to be, "It Is Written." We were encouraged in training to confront each other with The Word, in love -- "iron sharpeneth iron" and all that. But in practice, we quickly found out that the upper echelon was exempt from such confrontation, and any disagreement with leadership decisions could result in being fired, dropped from Corps, or labeled a possessed cop-out. "It Is Written" was not worth the paper it was printed on, since it was useless as an ultimate authority in TWI. BTW, does anybody know if Cummins was a participant in the sex scandal? He certainly put the accuracy of The Word secondary to The Will of Wierwille. Dear Goey, I agree that error in one area of VPW's life does not necessarily mean error in every aspect of his doctrine; however, such an agregious error SHOULD cause one to re-examine EVERY aspect of his doctrine. Even Wierwille used to say, "Don't take my word for it. Check it out for yourself." Since greater minds than mine have spent endless years trying to reconcile the Trinity debate, I will content myself with my own beliefs at present, knowing that I only THINK I might be right, keeping an ear open to other reasonable views, and trusting that God looketh on the heart. Was Wierwille smart enough to weave a complex web of doctrine that would convince people that adultery was okay? I think he was in part -- after all, his whole life was about building himself up with lies. He was an expert. He had to convince himself that he was entitled. Regards, Shaz

Funny, Mike! See, you can be a human when you try... ;)-->Regards, Shaz

True, Trefor, but when a system of checks and balances for those higher up in the organization is missing, there is always the temptation for fiscal and emotional abuse. Many businesses have self-destructed because of it. TWI was set up for it. Regards, Shaz

And I can bet that there was never anything wrong with Mrs. W. It was just VP's m.o. There is a shock kind of reaction (cognitive dissonance) that happens to a person when presented with unexpected, shocking information. But in hindsight, here's what I would have loved to say to him, had it been me... 1.) "Mrs. W can't have sex? Aww, I bet you're gonna miss that. But so good of you to stand by her. I really respect that in a man." 2.) "Have sex with YOU? Sure, let's go talk to Mrs. W about that." 3.) "Do WHAT? With that? What is that -- it looks like a p****, only smaller!" 'Scuse me, Shaz

Dear Refiner, You got it right. Adultery was for the "spiritually mature," which translated to the higher leadership and whoever they were bedding. A friend of mine wrote headquarters back around 1978, asking about sex outside of marriage. She felt it was simply an extension of loving others, a need to be met in herself, and okay as long as it didn't hurt anybody. She cited many of the Bible references about eating meat/herbs and all things being lawful. She sent the letter to the Research department. She was told that she was wrong, and taking the Bible verses out of context. She was told that fornication and adultery were wrong. I don't know who specifically answered her letter (but it was someone in Research, not Wierwille). But it does point out that there were two different camps on this issue -- those that wanted to know what the Bible said, and those that wanted what they wanted. Regards, Shaz

Dear exy, "Some of my best friends are never-been-Way" sounds condescending, but it's true. My friends come from different aspects of my life -- Scrabble, Lyme, gymnastics, dance, preschool education. Each understands a part of me. Each means more to me than just the one interest we share. But where else can everybody laugh, groan, and understand when you talk about stringing chairs? ;)--> Shaz

Dumbest thing Martindale ever said to himself: I can dance. :D--> Shaz

I now know to avoid any work evaluation that says, "How do YOU think you did?" They are always a trap. TWI's was no different. Sunesis -- live up to VP???? ROFL!!! Shaz

The new LC in AZ called me up, wanted me to drop by and say hi. (Thankfully for him, I cannot remember his name, but I think it was 1981 or 2.) So I went over. After a few pleasantries, he handed me a Corps Evaluation form and a Redeem the Time sheet and asked me to fill them out. I told him I was Recognized Corps. He said, "Doctor never wanted there to be a Recignized Corps." That's odd, because that's what we went into residence as, and I had a diploma to prove it. I remember thinking that I was fighting for my life, and here was someone I didn't know trying to find out whether i witnessed enough! I politely but firmly refused to fill out the forms. It was the first time I had ever heard of a Corps Evaluation, and the last time anybody tried to make me have one. :)--> Shaz

Dear imbus, You said Ohmygosh! I know somebody who does that!! I didn't even realize it was a VPW thing until you mentioned it. Lordy, I always thought it was so annoying. ROFL, Shaz

Dear Goey, I'm glad you explained about DF as well as you did. I was thinking the same thing, how D***** imitated VPW right down to the laugh (only an octave higher!), but didn't want to sound like I was putting him down. JT, I hope a few who knew D***** will come on and explain him better than I can, sice I did not know him personally. He was one of the earliest to get into the ministry, turned off from serious drugs and turned onto The Word, and got a lot of people to follow TWI in the early "groovy Christian" days. He has been widely described as a sweet man, right up to his untimely demise. I think a lot of people imitate the people they admire, be it Brittney Spears or their boss at the law firm. Then, hopefully, they grow up.... Regards, Shaz

Dear JT, Every time I hear doctrine like that, that makes no sense, I think I'm glad I left first, because I would have been M&A'd so many times over!!! Regards, Shaz

Dear papajohn, I was in for about 12 years total. The first nine, I was in CT. TWI had just begun there -- if we wanted to go to a big meeting, we went to Rye, NY. I was in high school. No one was being abusive. The BOT didn't interfere in any way that affected me. I was 15. Then I was in NYC for college. I can remember only one Corps person assigned there my last year, and he was a good man (FS). New Yorkers don't take bs from anyone, including the BOT. The Branch leader wasn't Corps. The Limb leader (JAL) was generally okay. I saw a few people getting "legalistic," but we New Yorkers assumed it was just those few, and would forgive them and try to get them to lighten up. If I saw VPW have a temper tantrum at any large gathering, I forgave him as being under a lot of pressure, and possibly knowing more about the situation spiritually than I did. Then I went in the Corps, and saw lots of zealotry. I also saw lots of hypocrisy at the Corps Coordinator/BOT level. I never saw the sexual abuse stuff when I was in, but I sure saw a lot of callousness, and some misogyny. It took 9 years to get to this point. I was sent to AZ. I saw a lot of clueless Corps, while the people themselves there were great. I confronted Wierwille on two occasions, very respectfully, regarding his decisions about me. I was not treated in kind. I had made a commitment to myself long before, that if I ever felt TWI did not stand for God, I would leave. I left. I had been in for 12 years. Some of us hoped we could help by being leaders and examples from within. I felt like that for a time. But when it was clear that the corruption was at the very top, it was time to go. Regards, Shaz

Agreed, Mary Cate. What if it was hundreds? Thousands? Is it still horrendous? Of course it is. (But guess what? They've been counting, and it IS millions.) And what about VPW and LCM and the women they harmed? And the families they broke apart? And the individual lives they destroyed? What if it was only a few people raped? Only a few families cut off from loved ones? Is it still awful? Of course. But, guess what? we're still counting. And we don't forget. Regards, Shaz

Too weird, ckeer. Reminds me of when people would ask you how you were, and I'd say "Great!" even if I wasn't. Didn't want to confess a negative, ya know... Now, they just say, "It's so wonderful to be in the household, all these miracles, all these blessings," when it isn't, and there aren't. Unless you count getting a parking space at the grocery store as a "blessing." I agree, it's all just busy-work, intended to keep the believers so focused about their own lives that they don't have time or permission to question what goes on at HQ. AND I think the MOG's made up stuff to justify their sin to THEMSELVES. After all, Wierwille and Martindale were CONVINCED they were entitled. Regards, Shaz

(((((((ckeer))))))) I feel so sorry for your loss. I hope you have since recognized the irony. (It makes me angry, and sad.) While TWI leaders were demanding that you keep things as clean as one of the root locales (where there are so many Corps running around cleaning the same things over and over that a speck of dust never gets a chance to hit the ground), they were making the believers come and clean THEIR homes! Meanwhile, YOU were doing the important work of caring for your wife. If there is a bema, I can't imagine God handing out Cleanliness awards! But for Caring, He surely must. Reminds me of the story of Mary and Martha. You chose the good part. I only have one question, because I missed the wonderful LCM years. What the heck were we supposed to be "crossing over" TO? What the heck is "the promised land of the prevailing word?" All nine all the time? Satan never touches us, 'cause we know so much hot Bible? We live perfect lives, because the Bible is uppermost in our thoughts? Signs, miracles, and wonders because we're all giving 15% and got out of debt? Sheesh, it was so clear that victorious living was NOT in evidence, so I guess they didn't cross over after all. --> I guess Craig was wrong, huh? The emporer had no clothes, only tights. Regards, Shaz

I haven't been watching much TV the last coupla years (not because I'm such a prude, we just don't get many channels!), but I saw this reality show the other day where they are looking for the WORST singer in the USA. They are insulting the ones with talent, and stroking the ones who are awful! I'm watching it like you'd watch a train wreck. I can't help but feel bad for the poor schmucks who don't know how untalented they are. Pirate, I'm with you, kids getting hurt is a lousy way to get a laugh. I remember Bob Saget back on the first one, urging parents NOT to put their children in harm's way to get a video, but to PUT DOWN THE CAMERA and go save their kid! Lordy, someone call Child Protective Services.... Mr. P., the 23-year-old gymnastics instructor who works with me told me about her conversation with a parent today. The parent wanted to know when the classes end next month. The instructor couldn't remember the exact date, and asked why she wanted to know. The mother replied, "Because I'm getting a breast reduction next month, and I want to be sure to come in and show you the 'after picture' before the session ends!" Is that more than you ever wanted to know...?! Dancingly, Shaz

Hi, wonder1, The Way International still exists. Its doctrines still confuse, and its leaders still abuse, even though it is supposed to be a "kinder, gentler" TWI these days. And there are still many people out there who were isolated and thrown away and never understood what was going on with TWI. I suppose we could all just post our stories and walk away. But it lacks the immediacy of speaking to real, live people about what's bugging you. Are you concerned that we shouldn't be going around "speaking negatives" all the time? I think that little Way doctrine is just incorrect, a warping of verses like "whatsoever things are honest..." and "love thinketh no evil." Compared with the things spoken by John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul, etc., I think we're in good company for speaking out the truth as we see it. It was the silence that hurt people. Welcome to the 'Spot! Shaz

Sounds like you are doing a lot of good things already, Galen. Before you treat the dog more often, make sure that doing so won't hurt the dog. Your vet may have some good ideas there, because the vets are seeing a lot of this. Ticks love moist and shade, which is so much of what our state is like once the leaves come out. They die fairly quickly in full sun, so the best thing you can do to your property is to make the areas you use dry and sunny. Keep the grass short, and the wood chip border is a great way to keep the bugs from crossing from the woods to your yard. Deer carry ticks, but so do mice and chipmunks, so try to keep their habitat out of your yard. I also learned that pachysandra and similar plants are great mouse/tick habitat, and to be avoided. Hope that helps you a little -- I will check through the info I have to see if there is anything else that might help you. Regards, Shaz

Sounds like a good idea, Galen, since dogs can get Lyme. (Cats, apparently, are not as susceptible.) And the award for the most-endemic area in CT currently goes to the northeast corner, strangely enough, not the Lymes area on the coast. 'Course, it may be that they are merely better at reporting Lyme, as they have a very good information network up there. Regards, Shaz

Back when I read The Thirteenth Tribe, I wondered, so what if they aren't mostly descendants of the original twelve tribes? Aren't proselytes also considered Jews? Then I heard Wierwille's opinions (back then), of how he thought that "anti-Semitic" was a misnomer, because Jews weren't Semitic, according to him. And I thought, don't we generally assume that by "anti-Semitic" we mean "anti-Jewish?" And now I have to laugh at the above article quoted by Oldiesman. Wierwille tries to give credibility to "The Myth of the Six Million" by saying it is in some of our libraries. Knowing how some books get INTO our libraries, I hardly think that he had a plausible argument. And yes, a man who sells anti-Jewish literature in his Bible bookstore without debunking that view SHOULD be called "anti-Jewish." And yeah, Cynic, if the Bible is to be held as God's Word, which is what Wierwille said he believed, then it is the BIBLE that divides people into THREE groups: JEWS, Gentiles, and church of God. It is the BIBLE that expounded upon the advantage of the Jew in the book of Romans. It is the Bible that says "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." And it is the BIBLE that says they that live by the law shall be judged by the law, not judged that they didn't accept Christ. Okay, back to your regularly-scheduled Patton... Regards, Shaz

Agreed, Tom. He set up the organization that would let him do what he wanted. A 3-man BOT consisting of himself, his brother, and his best friend. There are no members at The Way -- so you can't vote! Regards, Shaz

Thanks, Raf. Templelady, I think the "spears and javelins" thing was the first time it hit my young adult brain that Wierwille was wrong on doctrine. If you think it is okay to make ethnic jokes, as long as you substitute the word "unbeliever" for w**, ch***, n*****, or whatever... ...you might be in a cult. If you think "unbelievers" of your religion are not worthy of your respect, friendship, or caring... ...then you truly ARE in a cult.