shazdancer

I totally agree, Abigail. I am hearing that teachers may opt to quit or take early retirement if they are forced to spend more time merely teaching their students to recite facts for a test. In a society where the technology is changing so fast, we need citizens who know how to think. Regards, Shaz

Hi, Daggoo! Just moved here myself two weeks ago, from the Nutmeg State, which is like Massachusetts, only less so. I am in the L/A area. I'm loving it! I have yet to see a moose, but hope it will only be from far, far away. Just got back from the Moxie festival. Now I know why Moxie is NOT the #1 drink! Hope to meet up with you, Shaz

I got it, I got it! What I needed was 128-bit encryption. After floundering around Microsoft and trying different downloads, I found the ones to get me what I needed. Thanks, Bluzeman -- now I know how to get to my security settings as well. Someday, I just might understand it all -- but I doubt it! ;)--> Regards, Shaz

Hi, computer literate people! I have ONE (and only one, as far as I can tell) website that I cannot access, and that is the PayPal log-in page. I get this familiar message: Okay, I know it is not them, as I can access this page on other computers, so I know the problem is with my home PC. So how do I "adjust my browser settings?" And can you please put your answer in "click here, highlight that, delete this" kind of language, because if you say anything like, "download the interface on the hard drive," you will have lost me! Regards. Computer-challenged Shaz

Thanks, guys, I'm still unpacking, but I'm loving Maine! Will be tooling around to visit with you before the summer's out, OE! Shaz

HI everybody! I've been away for a couple of weeks (moved), and am just now catching up to many of the posts. Sheesh, what mountains out of molehills! My opinions on some of what has gone on: exJW's on Greasespot: I had read many of Refiner's posts right from the beginning. He'd stated that he had an interest in different cults and their followers, and he bought a PFAL book on eBay to get a handle on the doctrine. I saw no reason to disbelieve his story. I enjoyed his insight into cult behavior. Greasespot has had no problem welcoming innies, outies, and never-beens before. Don't stop now. Christians/non-Christians on Greasespot: Refiner has decided to reject Christianity. Other Greasespotters represent the full spectrum of belief: TWI believers (whether in or out), near-TWI believers, mainstream Christian believers, believers in other religions, agnostics, atheists, and the unsure. Many have been frank about their beliefs. Some are dismissive about those who disagree with them. I think a person's current religious view is NOT a reflection of that person's intelligence or amount of healing from their cult experience. (I guess Refiner had said something on the ex-JW site to the effect that we are all still pretty messed up.) We don't have to reject Christ if we're properly healed; neither do we have to accept him. But I am amazed at how shocked people are to have Refiner make a non-Christian statement, even to leave Gspot over it. Jesus was rejected when he was in the flesh; how are you surprised/offended that he is rejected now? He knew he would be. Does Geo offend you? Do you want P-mosh kicked out of Gspot? I have hope that Christ, eternity, and final justice are real. I do not "know that I know." I hope I'm right, I could be wrong. Is my opinion somehow not as important, educated, or valid? Jesus did not freak out that he was rejected. I trust that he continues to love, with empathy and understanding, without condescending hypocrisy. I don't think there is a need to be offended on his behalf because some do not believe. Potty mouth/free speech: I guess the ex-JW site does not censor 4-letter words. I am quite familiar with several of those words, but I can state my case with or without them. Pawtucket has decided that he does not want it on HIS site, nor does he want the personal slamming. I can understand that, as we can cause just as much damage by saying "yo mama" as we can by saying "f*** you." Disagree, then back it up. That's how it works here -- if it works differently elsewhere, then play by those rules there. And remember that the poster you think is a jerk spiritually, just might love the same recording artist and political candidate that you do. And if he disagrees with you and thinks YOU are a jerk, hey, he's on the Internet, what DEEference does it make? Moderators: Paw stated a long time ago that the moderators do not look at Private Messages. The old system had a bad counter that would increase the count of hits on a page incorrectly. Paw fixed it by taking the hit counter off. He added a function that informs your email when you have a new post in Private Messages. (I find that very helpful, as I don't check the PM all the time.) Don't reply to the email, or you'll be talking to a moderator -- go to the site and reply there, just like you do on the public boards. I think Paw and the moderators have been wonderfully tolerant. They hope that we will act like grownups and solve our personal disagreements, so they let an occasional slight or profanity go by. Do we want them to monitor every word, and kick off every offender? Maybe Kit Sober would be the only one left! Is Greasespot going downhill? Nope. It has always had hot issue times, and quiet times. Come and go as you need to or want to. But our best work has always been done when we bring our brains to the discussion, and leave our hot buttons in our other jacket. Regards, Shaz

And is that an image of YOU, WW, 3rd guy from the left, baying at the moon? :D--> Shaz

Ooh, and we hardly even witnessed to you!

Gee, that's funny. Because, you see, after I took PFAL and became a Twig leader, I really thought we were supposed to research the Bible, not "re-search" it. I did a lot of teachings that were not rehashes of Sunday teaching tapes or TWI books, although some were review. I also taught parts of PFAL to people who had never had the class. It didn't take a lot of brilliance to do a word study and teach the highlights of it, or to read a passage and expound on it. I am not trying to say how great I was, but rather that I was doing what I thought we were supposed to do. I thought PFAL was supposed to give us keys to understanding the Bible. I guess I was lucky to live in an area where there weren't that many believers close together, so if you did what you wanted in a Twig, no one heard about it, or cared. It wasn't until years later that I heard about this "re-search" stuff. I thought it was at best a guideline for neophytes in the Word; at worst, I thought it was a crock. Oopsie, my bad, Shaz

Dear Refiner, "New Dynamic Church" has a chapter on How to Speak in Tongues, teaching Wierwille's method on leading people into glossolalia, taken right out of the PFAL Class. You would probably be interested in reading that, since it is a key part of the doctrine. Regards, Shaz

Dear Ana, I have seen chat continue to be full of silliness. I am sure you are missed by many. You posted your request on the "About The Way" forum. You shouldn't be surprised at the responses coming from those who are not thrilled with that organization. As for me, I hope you are not trying to get the CFS class for its information. There wasn't much. (I was gonna make a crack about your needing to look up a naughty word, but I'll let it pass! ;)--> ) I think you would be better educated in spiritual matters concerning Christian family and Christian sex by going to any well-stocked Christian bookstore. As to the "negative" attitudes of people here, I see it more like this: many of us are so much more happy with our freedom to think outside the borders of TWI, we can't even imagine why someone would want to go back to the mindset we all once shared. In other words, I LIKE my brain! That's not a negative -- sorry if you see it that way. Regards, Shaz

Yeah, Shell, there is a tradition practiced by the more devout Mormon married women of wearing an undergarment, sort of like white longjohns, only shorter, as I recall. Supposed to be worn 24/7, except to wash it. Beyond that, ask a Mormon! :D--> Shaz

Dear socks, Ewww, and ROFL! Dear Ted, Mea culpa, and my apologies. There really WAS someone involved who knew something about those awful mining days in West Virginia. You, through your family. I think their story stands as a testimony to their confidence and faith. That said, you'll pardon me when I say I still didn't care for the song! These comments are our opinions. I knew that eventually someone would say something derogatory about some of the songs I did like -- "Farther Along" and "I Love the Lord" immediately come to mind. Heck, I'm sure that for many of us the situations where we heard those songs has as much to do with our feelings for the songs as the quality of the songs themselves does. A theme that has come up a lot on this thread is the idea of TWI ordering up song topics, or editing songs after the fact. I saw this first-hand with C**** B's children's alphabet song, where I thought some of the changes made by VPW were strictly arbitrary, and some for the worse. As a choreographer, I know it can be hard when someone messes with your heart-felt work, even if he is your employer! I think it speaks volumes for your heart and humility. It speaks little for the other guy's understanding of where art comes from. The songs were a powerful hook for the teachings of TWI, so it is no wonder that our feelings for the songs are somewhat strong. Regards, Shaz "A" is for Apple, the life's in the seed, Changed by VPW to,"'A' is for Adam, God's first man to be," "B" is for Bible, the best book to read, "C" is for Christ in you, always to stay, "D" is Delight in the Lord every day." Changed by VPW to, "'D' is for Doing God's Will every day."

exousia, you sick puppy... (glad I'm not the only one with alternative lyrics to those songs!) Lo, from the grave he arose, With little clods of dirt between his toes... (thank you, CR, that song will never be the same for me ever again!) Socks, Maybe we can change it to a bunch of gardeners in Iowa. THAT we can relate to! You know, "We dig the Word while digging in Des Moines...." Sowwy...'course, you JN guys never had parody lyrics for any of your songs, you being so spirtchul 'n all...didya? ;)--> Shaz

Dear socks, You gave me the giggles! Thanks for that. :D--> I loved JN and I love you, socks and Ted, but sorry, that whole concept of the "All Aboard" album should have been caca-canned before it ever got off the ground, in my never-so-humble-opinion. Too cutsey. Maybe better as a kids' album. I suppose there were a couple of good songs on that album, but I can't think of them, 'cause I'm stuck with that "Mystery Train" theme song running in my head. Aargh, socks, get it out, get it out! Woo-wooooo.... And yes, I got it that you were drawing parallels with digging coal/digging the Word, riding on a train/riding through life, etc. I just thought it didn't communicate any more than how cute the parallel was. Does that make sense? Regards, Shaz Note to dmiller: having alienated half of GSpot by saying I hate country, I LOVE bluegrass! Have had the fun of listening to Roger Sprung here, an old-time banjo man who, if he doesn't know EVERY song in the book, can fake it so you'd think he does! And still loves to jam at every opportunity.... They called it truegrass??? Barf me! One-a these days, I'll get to hear you play. That would be great!

ROFL, "Beautiful Ohio" -- didn't they play that every morning as we staggered down the hill to the morning sessions of Advanced Class '79? I had recently seen a horror movie, "Dawn of the Dead," where the zombies were tramping around a mall as the Muzak played. "Beautiful Ohio" so reminded me of that movie! All those formula songs must have been awful, but they were after my time. One I remember was when Joyful Noise was being asked to get into country music, which I mostly hate, so I was so disappointed. The worst of them had the lyric, "We dig the Word while we dig the coal, In the belly of the earth let God's Word roll..." As if JN knew anything about coal mining! So much talent, so wasted. Socks, can you shed some light on what THAT was all about? Regards, Shaz

I dunno, Steve. I've seen Shatner act -- are you SURE he's not dead? :D--> Shaz

Dear Goey, I have a theory about that. I think the BOD has plenty of money to keep their lifestyles going. That money was made in the heyday of TWI in the late 70's-early 80's, and is tied up in investments that earn dividends. (I know some of it was invested in gold back then.) But they can't divide the bulk of the money among themselves, because they are a not-for-profit organization. They must continue to keep up the appearance of following the Articles of Incorporation. They must continue to hold "jobs" within the organization, because they may not make a salary as merely a member of the BOD. (It's against the law.) But if they're too successful, their jobs will be that much harder. Too many people to coordinate! So I think they continue to do as little as they think they can get away with in the eyes of the IRS. They must protect their positions at all costs from those who would "out" them, for they would have to fold the corporation and give the investments to another similar organization. (CES??!!) They show the IRS what products they are producing to continue to woo converts. It's not THEIR fault that nobody comes! I am amazed that they have been allowed to go on this long, with a huge carryover from year to year, and so few followers for all the staff and expenditures. Regards, Shaz

I know someone who DID go back in. He was out in '90, subscribing to Sunday teaching tapes around 1999, and fully in and abs-ing by 2001. Why do I know this? It is my ex-husband (2nd husband). Perhaps after living with me, ANYBODY'D want to go back in! ;)--> Regards, Shaz

Dear imbus, I think most children develop a deep inner yearning for their parents to be proud of them. They may seek college or career paths that they think would garner parental pride. If they choose their own way, they may desperately try to get their parents to accept them for who they are. Any promotions, honors, or awards come their way, and they turn to their parents for validation, sometimes even when the parents have already set a pattern of not accepting the accomplishments of their children. I think many of us transferred that need for approval to TWI leadership, and/or to God Himself. (From our fathers to our Heavenly Father.) Instead of accepting His approval of us as His children, we strove for His pride in our works. To this day, I feel a deep sadness that my efforts are a meager attempt to fulfill what God would have me do. My inner hope is that God would be pleased with my poor offering. I think one of TWI's greatest weapons was to exploit that hunger for approval into a fear of failure. God wants you to go WOW/Corps/take this class. God wants you to give money until it hurts. God wants you to control every aspect of your life, and we will tell you how. God wants you to be grateful to the men who bring you the rightly-divided Word -- we will show you how to express your gratitude. Regards, Shaz

Please excuse the former choo-choo... I did actually see the name VierVille, France come up as the location a reporter was using for a piece on the D-Day memorial. Whether or not Wierwille's family had its origins there is anybody's guess, unless they want to research it. Whenever VP went on and on about his family pedigree, I always thought, "So what? Aren't we judged on our own merits? Isn't God no respecter of a person's background? Borrring!" But ya know? It's often a part of the narcissist's grandiosity to think of himself as special because of his family tree. (I know, plenty of people take pride in their heritage, but Wierwille used to teach on it like it was the Word!) IMHO, Shaz

Mike, I heard your jibe at the "rumor mill" (whatever that is), and at our ability to remember, as I read the thread. 'Course, in all honesty, you can only speak about your own ability to remember -- others might just have real good memories about what happened to them, what they heard, and what they saw. You keep harping on getting us back to the good old days. Some of us don't recall them as being all that good. So perhaps approaching Older Leader Grads is not what you want to be doing. Hmm, maybe door-to-door witnessing might be fun, you know, like back in the old days! Shaz

Pat, You said, in three different posts on this thread... Sorry, Pat, just expressing an opinion that it was impolite to quote someone's email on another website without their permission. Now I feel I am being labeled for having disagreed with you. I don't know anyone who posted on this thread personally. Didn't talk to them about this thread. I am not in an offshoot. I don't believe there is only "one right way of doing things."I learned your name, btw, because you have used it yourself on the 'Net, making it proper to address you by it. Sheesh, Pat, if you're gonna be an attorney, better get used to having your opinions and methods attacked all the time! ;)--> I actually liked your response to the email. Although some might have done it differently (and just as well in their own way), you were concise and informative. Perhaps you piqued his curiosity to look at some of your other pages.... I think many people stay in spite of the problems they see because they think they have no where else to go that has anything close to "the rightly divided Word." Some stay for innie friends and relatives that they know would shun them if they left. Some stay to be catalysts for change, and I would bet that many help contribute to making TWI a better place than it would be without them. I just feel that the organization as a whole was founded on false premises, and continues to be run by people who are only interested in themselves, not the lofty goals that define the organization. Regards, Shaz

Dear Cherished Child, Having sold my old books on eBay, it was clear that the people who were buying them (for much more than the original price) were offshooters. They were buying them to replace old, worn-out copies (see Mike, lots of people are still out there "mastering" PFAL), and to give them to their children and to newbies. They told me this themselves. I found the buyers to be prompt and polite. One was even quite patient as had I mucked up an address and the shipment took a long time to get to him. One said he was trying to amass "the greatest Biblical research library in this hemisphere." Having done a little research once at the library of The American Bible Society in NYC, I would say he has his work cut out for him. Regards, Shaz

Sorry, rascal, gotta disagree with you on this one. Pat said... Grizzy and Jason both responded to that, in their own way. There SHOULD be a concern for those still in, and we should try and look at things from their point of view. We will rescue no one if we don't have compassion. I save my vitriole for those who have perpetrated evil in the name of God and the organization.Giving away the writer's name was absolutely crossing the line, as even Pat admitted. Quoting the letter and making rude remarks about the writer also crosses that line, IMHO, as it closes the door to meaningful dialog with that person. If Pat wants to spearhead a movement to bring down TWI, then I for one would like to see him display a higher moral standing than that displayed by TWI. Regards, Shaz