shazdancer

Maybe the part of our mind that is rational/logical/analytical is limited to one part at a time, but there are definite parts that can track at once. Example: You're typing out a response to a foodfight on chat, but typing to the rhythm of the music playing on the cd, with tears streaming down your face because your boyfriend called it quits last night. All different parts of the mind at work simultaneously, but on different levels. The different levels tend to fuse together, like listening to a symphony: you can pay attention to one instrument apart from the others, or blend the sound of all the instruments in your mind to form an impression different from that made by any one instrument. Regards, Shaz

The photos just came back today, including an "on-location" pic of our man Flat. I can get them out tomorrow. I can't scan photos, so Steve, email me your mailing addy and I will send them to you via Priority mail, feel free to scan whatever onto Gspot and then Zach can have them for school, okey-dokey? Regards, Shaz

Dear Exy, Sounds like one thing he learned from you was how to care. He's gonna make one great daddy some day. And he's learning it from you. Hear that fireworks sound? It's the cycle of violence being broken.... :)--> :)--> :)--> :)--> Shaz

About the child becoming the teacher: My second kid is a chemistry major in college, already thinking about going on to grad school. She got to do some research work with polymers this past summer, and to present her findings at a meeting of other scientists. You know how much I know about chem? Nada! I am so impressed when she tries to explain to me what she is studying, and I am lost after about 3 sentences (well, not entirely lost, but mostly). And the cool thing is, I don't even feel like I need to know what she knows, or to somehow prove I am on a par with her. She can teach me what I should know, or what I'm curious to know. I used to teach her how to dance for her gymnastics floor routine, and how to do the laundry, among other things. She taught me some things about gymnastics that made me a better coach. And she taught me a lot about independence, and humor. Isn't this how it's s'posed to be? Regards, Proud Mom

Oh WHEW! I am sooo relieved he made it!! I did not want to be the last one to have seen him. I did not want to have to take the stand and testify.... You made my night, ?a! :D--> Shaz (obsessing way too much over a paper doll)

From TWI's own memorial brochure, made available at the Rock of Ages, 1985: Dec. 31, 1916 VPW born July 2, 1937 Wierwille marries Dorothea Kipp (ages 20 and 21) BA from Lakeland College 1940 Donald born 1941 Bachelor of Theology from Lakeland; Masters from Princeton Theological; starts first pastorate (July); ordained (July 29) 1942 Karen born; "snow on the gas pumps" (early fall); first radio broadcast (Oct. 3) 1944 second pastorate; Mary Ellen born 1947 Chimes Hour Youth Caravan 1948 Pikes Peak "doctorate 1951 VPW visits missionaries in Honduras; VPW led into tongues by J. E. Stiles 1953 first edition of Receiving the Holy Spirit Today, first PFAL class 1954 Pillai takes PFAL, teaches Orientalisms 1955 JP born (July); ministry becomes The Way, Inc. September-April, 1955-56 Wierwilles (minus JP) travel to Great Britain, Europe, India, and the Bible Lands Dilemma of Foreign Missions in India published 1957 Sara born (July); VPW resigns from denominationHope that gets you started on the early years. The rest later, Shaz

I also wonder how much the doctrine of gift ministries figured into this. As in, "God says I have the ministry of a teacher, so if you don't understand me, it's your problem." Regards, Shaz

I thought it was especially chilling that he also used a spoon to exact "discipline," and also claimed that he was doing God's will in using it. We may never know if he wanted to do this horrible thing and use God as an alibi, or if he really thought God wanted him to abuse his child in the name of discipline. Either way, he is guilty of disobeying the law and common sense. It only took the jury 3 hours to convict. And yeah, I thought adoptive parents were supposed to be carefully screened and followed up on. And when you think of the many stable people out there yearning to adopt... :(--> Shaz

CW, please check your PT's Shaz

In the news here today: A man was convicted of beating his adopted son, leaving deep bruises on his legs and buttocks. The boy was 21 months old. The father claimed the boy had given him a "defiant" look when told to pick up his toys, and that the father had tried other means to correct the boy. He also said he had read a number of Christian books about disciplining children, and felt that he was doing the right thing in spanking him with a wooden spoon. Because the boy was younger than 6, the assault is considered a felony. The father could get up to 5 years. He will lose his job with the Navy, and possibly be discharged. Where was the mother? She is awaiting trial also. A day after the spankings, she shook the child violently, and the child died. Sadly, Shaz

Dear Catcup, I am very sorry that some people on WayDale, as you put it, "began to pick my daughter apart." Although it is remotely possible that she saw some other bald guy who resembled Craig (and Lord help the man who looks like him!), I highly doubt it. I have heard your account many times, from people who have known someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which I think describes Craig to a T. People have described that "look" as completely cold, like looking into a deep chasm, or the eyes of a snake. I have experienced that "look" as well, as if he thought he could do some kind of spiritual damage just by staring. I am sure he was looking for you, Catcup. He did not see it as his fault that stuff happened to him. He blamed you. To a narcissist, it is always everybody else, because facing their own self-loathing destroys them. You were absolutely right in reporting him and protecting yourselves. Narcissists who have been wounded to their core have been known to become violent, although a show of strength is usually enough to back them off. They eventually look for new sources of admiration and drop their old associations like an old banana peel. But they might try to resurrect those old relationships if their new ones aren't working. Some like negative attention just as much as positive. In other words, watch your back but don't sweat it. Your daughter was not nuts. This behavior is typical. And your description sent a shiver up my spine, too. Regards, Shaz PS Google NPD or "narcissistic injury," or feel free to email me for more info.

Yup, Flat is on his way at last. Figure him to arrive Monday or Tuesday, ?a. I also dropped a couple of postcards in the mail to the school, and will follow that up with a few photos early next week. Aw, hounddog, I loved Sedona -- stayed for a week in a cabin around 1984, before it became a New Age mecca. Beautiful. Thanks, Steve, we had fun! Regards, Shaz

A tick bite, mj. Which we never saw. He never had the telltale rash, joint aches, or flu symptoms. And as for my ex, "bravado" is an understatement. And yes, having just received a letter from him today, he thinks it is all my fault. The letter was laughable, and if it says anything about the TWI mindset today, then TWI is truly insane. Shaz

Okay, some picture URL's. (Sorry, I don't have a digital camera.) Lewiston, Maine At the "thumbnail index" on the left, click to view Great Falls, Railroad Park, and City Buildings. Lewiston/Auburn walking tour Check out the Auburn Library, and Bates College. Lewiston/Auburn, Maine are actually a small city and a town that straddle the Androscoggin River in Maine -- Lewiston on one side, Auburn on the other. Like many inland cities, this one was built on a river for water power for its mills. You can see Great Falls from the bridge that spans the river, and many of the old mill buildings are still there, though many are now empty. Just a few weeks ago was the annual Balloon Festival, where hot air balloons from all over the country come to float over the Androscoggin Valley. You can see many of them in the early morning or evening, when the air currents are best. We saw as many as twenty of them in the air at once, a beautiful sight. Lewiston/Auburn's citizens have many people of French Canadian heritage, so you may see some signs in French as well as English. A dominant building on the Lewiston side is the Sts. Peter and Paul Church, a huge cathedral that holds services in both English and French. There you have it! Regards, Shaz

Okay, one story. I had divorced my second husband in the year 2000. (I had been out of TWI for over 15 years by then. My ex left when he met me a decade ago, but returned to TWI after the divorce.) At that time, he had free and open visitation with our son, then age 9. But he was not allowed to involve him in TWI in any way, as per our divorce settlement. It seemed that my son was becoming depressed, so I wanted to have him see a counselor, a LCSW in town. It was difficult to convince my son to go, as my ex had spoken badly to him about shrinks. (Something he later denied doing, but was confirmed by my daughter.) My ex was to bring him after he got out of school. Instead, he met with the LCSW that morning. I do not know what was said, but it prompted the counselor to cancel the appointment without contacting me, and suddenly fill her schedule so that we could not meet with her at all. Since I have sole legal custody of our son, such a move was unethical on her part -- she should not even have been talking with ex -- but there was nothing to be done. I eventually got my son the help he needed, but by then he was much worse, almost to the point of needing to be institutionalized. He was eventually diagnosed with neuroborreliosis (Lyme disease in the brain) and is slowly recovering on antibiotics. Perhaps if TWI had a better outlook on mental illness and on getting help for it, my ex would have allowed it, and my son would have gotten help that much sooner. Regards, Shaz

Tough question, CW. I think most people do not like to stand out from a crowd. Not that they are all deperate to belong, but that they don't want to be in the spotlight. Standing up to TWI would have put them in the spotlight, with possibly the same negative reactions you were getting. Do we confront every person we see doing something wrong? No. Do we tell the young person smoking on a sidewalk that he shouldn't do that? Not usually. Do we tell the drunk on the street where he can go for help? Probably not. Why not? We ratonalize: we don't have time to get involved, the person may get hostile with us, we don't know all the facts, it would be rude to intrude. As a society, we don't poke our noses in other people's business. It's not considered polite. I think that attitude tends to spill over into things where we SHOULD have gotten involved, such as when we observed abusive situations in TWI. It is one of the dichotomies I saw in the Corps: we were told that we were the ones who were supposed to stand up and declare "It Is Written," but in practice, standing up to leadership got us ignored or worse, slandered or M&A'ed. I'm sure I am not completely describing your situation, CW, and I agree, people should have stood up for what was right. I feel sorry for you that few did. Regards, Shaz

(((((outandabout))))) thank you so much for your story. It is astounding, and heartbreaking. And I am so glad you are having a good life post-TWI. I think the best revenge is a life well-lived. (((((exy))))) I hear you. You do not owe anybody participation on this thread. I wasn't thinking of you when I started it, although you have contributed much on the subject in the past, and your incite is always welcome, as much or as little as you feel comfortable talking about. Like you, I find it hard to get into this sometimes -- not because of my stuff with husband #1, because it was a long time ago, but the husband #2 stuff is recent, and we have a kid involved, so my feelings about this stuff are still pretty strong. Take care, Shaz

Flat has been having a wonderful time up here in Maine. He even took a fast side-trip with us to CT for the weekend -- that guy sure gets around! The weather is cool (41 degrees) and sunny (visibility: 10 miles) at 7 a.m. this morning. Tonight, I'll tell you about his adventures. ;)--> He will be here until Wednesday, when he will be on his way to Canada to visit ?a prochaine.

I think this mindset prevented a lot of people already in TWI from going for professional counseling (not the TWI kind) when it would have benefitted them. They never took that first step to seek help, because they were told they didn't need unbeliever shrinks. We now call them experts. "How are you?" "GREAT!" Regards, Shaz (P.S. Will be away for a couple of days. Carry on -- will tell you my story when I get back! ;)--> )

mj, you said Trouble is, that was NOT what was being described here. People were leaving their children with what they were told were experienced child care workers who also loved God. The parents didn't do a police check on these guys before leaving their children with them. Then, when the children reported they'd been molested, the parents got the children away from those guys and reported them! Sheesh, they did the right thing, and you want to say the parents were negligent? Have YOU ever taken a caregiver's fingerprints before leaving your children? Of course not. You listen to credible recommendations. They thought they had a good referral from a godly organization. Surprise.... Shaz

Unreal, Geo. Love thy neighbor is great, but common sense tended to go out the window. We thought we had the instant answers to everything. All your problems solved in 12 easy sessions.... "Just renew your mind." Wow, easy to say if you were sound-minded in the first place. And of course, the Corps had all that advanced training on counseling. We took a course for like, what, 2 weeks? And read the book Competent to Counsel. Yup, we were real prepared to handle some real issues, as long as the issues concerned which songs to sing with abundant sharing. Regards, Shaz

Hi, everybody, I was thinking about the child abuse thread, and how the AK child molester wasn't kicked out, or helped, but instead was moved around and his offences hidden. Hmm, reminds me of my first husband, who was kicked off of Staff after only a month or so for his drinking (meant I was fired, too), and sent to AZ to get his act together. We already knew from AA that the "geographical cure" seldom works, because you take you with you! Upon bringing that up with Don W., I was assured that we were mainly going there to be with the LC being assigned there, who had fought demon rum himself and was going to help us. That turned out not to be hevvy revvy, either -- the guy refused to help us, and didn't last 6 months there himself. So I'm wondering: how many of you, or people that you know who were in TWI, were given a little less than a referral to a knowledgeable professional? Anybody given a geographical cure? Anybody told that the Word was the answer to mental illness, and anything else was "good" instead of "best?"

Lordy, you guys, get a [doctrinal] room! ;)--> :D-->

mj, Maybe you didn't read the posts closely. I will try to give you the Reader's Digest version of what CW was saying. She can correct me if I misstate a fact. She said a believer was caught sexually molesting children at a children's fellowship. When leadership found out about it, did they kick him out, like they did to others for much lesser offences? Did they separate him from working with children, and get him extensive counseling? No, they moved him to Alaska without telling the Alaskan believers about his history. He ran children's fellowships in Alaska, and molested again. The parents didn't know -- the children were coerced into keeping it a secret. Eventually, someone did tell, and the guy was arrested and jailed. Did TWI M&A him? No, in fact they tried to stop people from blowing the whistle on him. When he got out they welcomed him back to fellowship in Ohio, without telling anyone about his background. One family there left TWI because they recognized him. When the parents found out, they got their children away from this guy. Some even left TWI or were kicked out over it. Instead of thanking the whistleblowers, TWI leaders reviled them and covered for the perpetrator. Sounds to me like the parents acted like parents. Sounds to me like TWI did not act like a Christian organization. Why not? because TWI put the wishes of the adults above the needs of the children. It was men first, women second, and children third. Because that's how Wierwille wanted it. Shaz

Thank you, CW. I've never heard it said better.