shazdancer

I was attracted to the ex-Way sites long after leaving TWI because I was curious about whether others had seen the things I had seen while in. I wanted to know what had happened to the group I was so strongly a part of for so many years. Waydale, and now Greasespot, helped put it together for many of us, who had similar stories, but were prevented from comparing notes by being isolated from one another. The coverup and secrecy was stopped. Regards, Shaz

Sorry Mike, but your own words, "True authority to speak comes only from loyalty to God," indict Wierwille himself as not having the authority to speak for God. Shaz

Dear HCW, I would like to take on a few of your questions. I was there, at least for a little while. Like you, I was fired from Staff. I don't know about you, but I was fired simply for being married to the wrong man, and I was fired in 1980 by Wierwille. Don't get me wrong, though. I was still willing to stand with TWI in spite of what I felt was a great and hurtful misunderstanding. I later gave Wierwille an opportunity to right the wrong, but he compounded it instead, and then I left. Most of what I now know about Wierwille (the plagiarism, the adulteries, the drunkennness, the rages) I learned long after the fact, but they helped string together the things I knew first-hand about the guy. We were duped, by one of the best -- a man who duped himself. Because, in my opinion, the facts don't support the premise that TWI the organization was once good. There were good times and lots of good people, absolutely. Good Bible, at times. Miracles? Maybe. Thank God. But as a corporation, it was founded on plagiarism and continued on the whims of one man's own self-interest. I don't think you were delusional. But perhaps you chose to overlook many signs that things were not right in Camelot. I overlooked many red flags, thinking at the time that "nobody is perfect, we all fall short, etc." But the adulteries (along with the lies and the trashed lives) are not about being human -- they are about being evil. It is also possible that LCM was "more the child of hell" than his father in the Word.Regards, Shazdancer

Dear socks and 3Cents, It is always easy to be an idea man, much harder to fill in the details and actually carry out the plan. It is easy to walk into a room and tell those in charge what is wrong with their program, much harder to work day after day with others who may not have the same vision, talent, or work ethic. Heck, I do that all the time in gymnastics -- walk in and tell the coach what their kid is doing wrong. That's the easy part, having a good eye. The hard part is working with the young athlete day in and day out, on good days, injured days, distracted days. I have a lot of respect for the athletes that take what I tell them and actually work on it. VP loved to have those "big vision" moments. I don't think he was all that good at following through. Funny that he turned the guilt for that onto us -- the "consider a suggestion as a command" doctrine. WE were supposed to fill in all the details. Then VP could come back and tell us where we were "off." The easy part. Alcoholic? Yeah. And narcissistic. They both tend to be lazy, and hate to take responsibility. I always heard how "Doctor" worked so hard. But I didn't see it. Regards, Shaz

From their FAQ message board What kinds of things do they email John about? In other words, they try to micromanage it.Gee, John, after over 40 years in TWI, you would think you didn't need someone to manage your walk for you. IMHO Shaz

To help answer the question about Craig and VP's relationship, I would add that, at least as early as 1980, several of the top brass were in the habit of avoiding having to go through VP to get things done. That was clear from the reaction of JAL, BM, and DEW when they learned that my hubby had gone right to VP with his drinking problem, and got his tushy kicked off of Staff. Their atttitude was, "Aw, ya shouldn't have done it that way, because now we can't overrule his decision." It seems to me that respect for VPW had diminished for those who had their own piece of the TWI pie to protect. Perhaps that was true of Craig as well. Regards, Shaz

Dear HCW, I enjoyed your insights into the prime years of TWI. I was in about the same time, '72-'84. I am intrigued by this statement, among others: Combine it with this one I think it is fair to say that VPW was a male chauvinist, or call him a "man's man" if you want to put a nicer spin on it. He may have said nice things about women from the lectern, but in person he used them, beginning with his wife. Provide VP with admiration or sex when he wanted, and shut up the rest of the time, or take a hike.If you are wondering about the destruction of the ministry, I'd start with VP's attitude toward half the people who were in that ministry, and the example he set for those who would follow. I would be curious to hear about your take on how people viewed VPW and his motorcoach escapades. It seems to me that a lot of people knew about it (I didn't). And yet it was allowed to continue. I also enjoyed hearing that Don stuck up for his mother and the family about the India trip. Like WordWolf, I tend to think VP may have embellished that trip somewhat (no WOW's sent to India, for one thing), and a man of God making his wife abandon their newborn is a huge red flag to me. Regards, Shaz

**Whew!** Ooh, ahhh.... Still laughing, Paradiseden. Okay, a coupla years ago I had an ultrasound done. I'd heard how people didn't enjoy them, because they have to pee from all the water drunk beforehand, and the technician is pressing on the bladder. But I've always been a bit of a camel, so when it came time to do the ultrasound, I felt fine. There was no waiting that day, so I was out in a flash. It wasn't until I was three blocks away from the office (on a freezing day, johniam) that it hit. Too far and too icy to go back to the doctor's office. I drove 20 minutes home like that. Thought the traffic couldn't move fast enough, and thought I was gonna cause an accident, of one kind or another! ----- Okay, I guess this story goes here. First husband was the opposite of me -- he drank a lot of coffee, always had to go. It was a challenge one morning to get my little family packed and into the car for a family trip, but everyone was excited to leave. At last we were heading for the car, when hubby says, "Just a sec, I gotta pee." Four-year-old daughter waits for him to do his thing. And waits. And waits. (You know, ya gotta get those last squirts out...) Finally, she can't stand it anymore, and says... "C'MON, DAD, SHAKE IT AND LET'S GO!" :D--> , Shaz

Dear Bramble, 3 kids in 22 months? (shaz does some quick calculating...) Twins or preemies? :D--> Shaz

Dear socks, Can you get me the specific link to the Mike Find*ley pics? He was in my Twig in Phoenix, before he joined Way Prod, along with his wonderful fiancee Vicky. And yeah, a very good drummer -- I hired him once to accompany a jazz dance master class I gave. It took no time at all to explain to him what I wanted, and we had a blast! Good people, I wish them well. Dear igotout, I also know Sue B. She first got me into TWI, through the dance company we were both in at the time. We were both in high school at the time. Regards, Shaz

Dear Catcup, Please protect yourself. Johniam's info notwithstanding, you and I both know a few "out there" Wayfers who have gotten worse over time, not better. And nothing like picking on a woman instead of another guy. I used to have a P.O. box for all my eBay transactions. Your story is why, though all my Way transactions turned out to be with decent people. However, the only warning I ever got from eBay was when someone reported that one of my Way auctions was fraudulently labeled. It wasn't. Take care, Shaz

Yeah, Raf, my partner (night M.E. of a daily up here) was saying they had to be careful of some of these photos, too. Shaz

Oldies, I agree that the local believers might not have known the story behind this guy. They may have come to like him enough (read LLP's posts) that any warnings coming from an ex just sounded like the rantings of a woman with a grudge. However... The guy was Corps, and ordained. Didn't HQ know anything about the divorce? Didn't it concern the BOD that the stepmom got custody of MN's son? Did they wonder why the court did that? MN also stated that "compliance with Megan's Law mandates, he said, would make it difficult for him to return to his ministerial career," according to the article. Does MN still think he has a ministerial career with TWI when he gets out of prison? Does TWI still think so? Hopefully, they won't hold a place for him now, after Greasespot has put this case out in the open. Regards, Shaz

Dear LLP, From see me's original post... She tried to tell them. They dismissed her. Compare that with the example I wrote about with a daycare center that immediately put safeguards into place to protect children just in case the story might be true, and you can see the problem I have with TWI. Compound that with the other stories that have appeared on these pages of molestation and pure cluelessness and callousness towards children at the highest levels of TWI. A TWI man arrested and convicted of child molestation in Alaska and Ohio (Coolwaters and templelady's story). Mistreatment of Family Corps kids, and misapplication of the use of the rod of correction (other posters, including me). Further compound that with TWI's teaching on receiving the revelation manifestations, which has been taught now for decades by the same leaders, and you see why I reject TWI. I respect your position, LLP. I was once where you are now, a long time ago. I heard a few second-hand stories, and could think of possible explanations. It wasn't until I was actually in Corps training, and had leadership turn on me for no reason, that I began to see it for what it really was. Like you, I had one foot firmly planted in the real world, and though I had great disappointment about leaving, I had no worries that I would become a "greasespot by midnight." You have my best wishes. Shaz

But this all seems to be beside the point. In this case, a man did sexually assault a child, possibly many children. The whistle was blown on his activities, but TWI's response was to support the molester. Shaz

I have been in the education field my whole adult life. Over 25 years. I have seen good daycares, and poor ones. I have seen abuse, and reported it. I think I have a little experience to speak to the issue of child abuse, and of how the institution in which it happens should respond. A good institution endeavors to keep checks and balances in place against all its employees. A good institution is ready to work with the authorities on any allegation. A good institution will protect the safety of the children above the comfort of its employees. One example (first-hand knowledge): The year was 1983. A 4-year-old child in a daycare makes an accusation that "two big boys climbed over the wall and came in the bathroom and touched me. The teachers saw it and didn't do anything." The wall was 8 feet high. I was there the day it supposedly happened. It didn't happen. The daycare director's immediate response: suspend the teachers named, with pay. Have the police brought in to talk to everyone involved. Call a meeting with all parents to bring them up to date on what was happening. The result? The child began to name an uncle, and the parents who originally came forward with this accusation withdrew their cooperation with the police. The daycare returned to normal operations, with further instruction to staff as to how to handle children in the bathroom and how to handle any suspicion of abuse. A few parents withdrew their children, but not many. Compare that with how TWI not only did not have any in-depth spiritual perception and awareness to know what was going on, but they didn't even have any 5-senses common sense to protect children from this guy, and you can see why I am not happy with TWI as an organization. Regards, Shazdancer

(((((see me))))) My heartfelt admiration for you and your daughter. You bravely stand for the morals that one would have thought a Christian organizaton would want to stand for, but doesn't. Pawtucket, can we get a summary of the facts on the Greasespot main page? Regards, Shazdancer

Dear LLP, You said... I disagree. Sexual predators are known for looking for situations where they can most easily perpetrate their offenses. They look for places where they can be among children long enough to select their victims and be alone with them, and where the safeguards for those children are low. They look for positions of power over those children, so the children will not be believed.Had TWI had a system of supervision and accountability in place, the epidemic of sexual predation would never have happened. If TWI had the level of "spiritual in-depth perception and awareness" that it claims its leadership has, it never would have happened. And had TWI leaders cared more about the lives of innocent children than about their own bellies, it would never have been allowed to continue. LLP, please trust your gut when you say you felt betrayed. You were. Regards, Shaz

Interesting, Sunesis. I can think of a few people I know who have "photographic" memory, and they all have one other thing in common -- they suck in the empathy department. Regards, Shaz

Perhaps remaining married (if they are) is a way to justify Donna's still living at Headquarters. (Is she still living in the Corps Chalet, er, the President's Home?) They are still waiting for Craig to repent, get all better, and return to TWI. Or at least, that's what they can tell people. Regards, Shaz ('Course, when my husband messed up at HQ, I was kicked off of Staff as well, so were many others....)

Thanks for the info, Linda. So where's the link from her doing good things with the Mini-Corps, to turning it over to G? Was it simply because he was the man? (Barf me.) And I also want to hear more about the allegations against G. Regards, Shaz

Dear parsely, Perhaps I am the exception that proves your rule. I DID have one foot in the "real" world the whole time. I had non-TWI projects and friends. Later I had children to raise. When I got as close as the Corps, I saw corruption at the top. And though I mourned that TWI was not acting like they had "the Word like it had not been taught since the first century," I had no big trouble walking away. But I think I understood what the cult mentality was. I saw many people who took the whole thing way beyond common sense. They were committed "dog soldiers," as Wierwille urged them to be. When the Waco siege happened, and the government started moving tanks in and tear-gassing the place, I yelled at my radio, "Don't do it! Stop!" because I knew, I KNEW, that the Branch Davidians would take it as a sign that Armageddon had arrived, just like their prophet had predicted. I think we were sucked in by a two-fold approach. First was the convincing stage. You want love? We have love to share. You want power? We offer to teach you the Law of Believing, and tithing. You long to know about the hereafter? We are tighter with God than anyone else, and we'll teach you to speak in tongues, so you can tap into spiritual power. Step #2 was to unsettle the believer, keep the fulfilling of his needs just out of reach. Need more? Go WOW, go Corps, take the Advanced Class, clean the devilish influences out of your house, clean your limb leader's house, kiss his a**. Prove your commitment so that God WILL spit in your direction. Listen to your leadership, because they have a special knowledge of God that you don't. Regards, Shaz

The whole situation saddens me. I was pregnant in the FC, '79-'80, but had little knowledge of the mess that was going on in Children's Fellowship. I remember having the sense that C had some educational training, G was just picking it up from C. (Heard that he later took charge of the whole thing, and that bugged me, because I'd thought she was more qualified.) C taught that things had to be age-appropriate, and correct me if I'm wrong, but she seemed to have a heart for kids. "Directed play" as described by her sounded much more Montessori in nature, not at all the nastiness that it apparently became. My impression of the Mini-Corps was that their time was very structured, and disciplne was firm, but I had no idea that things were so bad. In fact, I had a glimpze of how people could misinterpret the spoon thing when I observed an elder Corps parent doing homework with her kid, and spanking him whenever he gave the wrong answer. He was trying to do it right, dammit! I told C about it, and she assured me that that was NOT what she taught. I went on to devote over 20 years to the education field, including whistle-blowing on a couple of people who should never have been in charge of children. Move over, WG and LindaZ, I wanna help you pop a few noses! Regards, Shaz

Loved it, 3 cents! Guess I'm not an Eric Hoffer true believer then, huh? Thank God! ;)--> Shaz

Mixed memories for me, Cindy... I was out of TWI when my first kid was still a toddler, so I had time to decide what I wanted to do. First husband and I loved the idea of Santa (the guy who gives secretly, without needing to be thanked), so that is what we did with our daughters. And in AZ, there was a wonderful actor who did the Santa bit in downtown Scottsdale and other places, who would come visit our house with his antique toys just before Christmas, so you see, we really did have a Santa. If the kids asked us questions about Santa, we just said, "It sure seems that way," until they were old enough to figure it out, then we told them that they could now be Santas for others. Fast forward to second husband... I explained to him everything I just said above. He nodded, which I thought meant he agreed with me. Nope, it just meant he heard what I'd said. (He did this on later occasions as well.) In a talk with our son when I was not around, he told him that Santa Claus is another name for Saint Nicholas, a Catholic so-called saint who died hundreds of years ago. Our son took that lovely bit of information on the bus with him the next day. The first I knew about it was when I got a phone call from the school, saying kids were upset when my son told them that Santa was dead. My son was 5 years old. So I feel kind of sad and sick about a cult, and an ex, who would want to take Santa Claus away from a little kid just to be "right." Regards, Shaz