shazdancer

Thanks, Hope, I remember your story. Cracks me up all over again! I tried to explain some of this silliness to my significant other, but without knowing the underlying mindset, it just isn't the same. Lordy, we musta been nuts to put up with this stuff! Still laughing, Shaz

Johniam, you said That says it for me. I'd rather concentrate on what I know, and interpret things in that light, than on the invisible things. Heck, NO man knows, 'cuz they're spiritual! Unless we received revelation, we know NOTHING about spiritual matters. (And if revelation as taught by TWI is a crock, then WHAT were we and they doing?!)And like Geo said, it's tough to argue with someone who says they "know" about something you can't see, hear, or feel. "Spiritual" insight was a perfect way to lord it over others. Show me what you DO, not how much you know. Regards, Shaz

Once more on the tongue-lashing, HCW... Other posters have mentioned on here that members of the BOT couldn't keep a civil tongue in their heads when kissing the ladies. I was a recipient of the lizard kiss also, from Howard Allen. At the time, naive me thought he just didn't know how to kiss! But I steered clear of greeting the BOT at the Rock after that. When my first husband was kicked off of staff for drinking, I was kicked off, too. I agree, hiring was a package deal. More like two bodies for the price of one. TWI -- God's worst-managed company! Regards, Shaz

True, satori. Every mistake made seemed to point to some deep-seated spiritual flaw, our disrespect for God/the Bible/Wierwille. I am amused when someone (often a newbie) comes here and uses a verse to be the great, spiritual answer to a discussion that should stop all mouths. Uh huh. I once had a poster jump in on a thread I'd started to inform me of what a blithering idiot I was. (Does that count as reproof? Thanks for sharing!) I just said something like, "I didn't know my ex-husband posted here." :D--> My bad, Shaz

How do I respond to Gspot reproof? It depends... Are they right? Or did I communicate my point poorly? Either way, I usually apologize. People deserve to hear the word "sowwy" and the retraction if I just opened mouth and inserted foot. Are they wrong, or are they insulting? I may go around with them for a couple of posts, but no more, on a given subject. It just isn't worth it to clog a thread with, "I am not!" "You are, too!" I think it makes me look bad, right or wrong, to continue to harangue. And I trust that most readers get it. Regards, Shaz

Sooner or later, almost everyone experiences a major life trauma -- major illness or injury, psychological problem. It would make sense to be able to turn to those who claim to have the answers to life for assistance and support. In TWI, not only did the top leaders have a way of not helping, they were adept at making a bad situation worse. Like Bob said, "Though many meant well, all they could do at best was offer God's love and beg you to build your believing." I had gone 12 years in TWI without asking for any help above the branch level. When I did, I found out what TWI was really all about. The love of God was a wonderful thing in the abstract, but organizationally, TWI didn't want to deal with real life. Too messy, not cost effective. Regards, Shaz

I just love these ideas! Could I ask them if they are making up their interpretation or prophecy? How do they know? Can I comment if they all seem to use the same rhetoric, like the word "prevailing," a lot? Can I ask them why they consider the words of the Gospels to be part of the Old Testament, even though those 4 books were written for the learning of the early Christian church? What were they supposed to learn? Can I ask them about where Craig went? And why is Donna still at HQ when so many spouses of errant Corps (myself included) were kicked out? Can I ask to make a reservation at the Corps Chalet? Hey, this could be fun.... :)--> Shaz

Whoa, WW, if he were my hubby, he woulda had to duck, lol! I don't consider a mistaken statement to be a "lie." A lie might be made by commission, or by omission. It might be made in order to avoid getting caught, like children do. Or it might be made to cause harm, or to garner sympathy. I guess the 3 things which rule how much my feathers get ruffled are: the age/maturity of the liar, the extent of the harm, and the motivation of the perpetrator. Regards, Shaz

Thanks, HCW, for filling in the details in your assessment of the trailer, the truck, and the driver. I can easily amend my take on the incident. ('Course, I still wish that the older grownups, the BOT, had insisted on transport by bus!) I agree with you and dabobbada -- we were kids, doing the best we could think to do at the time, as kids. And yeah, I've looked at my kids, and my students, many times and said, "What did you think you were doing?" Always a dumb question, because the guaranteed answer is, "I dunno." Sounds to me like you were doing everything you could to help others at the scene, while disregarding that you might be injured, which you were. Please don't ever beat yourself up over what else you could have done, before or after. You were injured too, and should have been receiving adequate care and concern from others. Your heart in the matter makes it clear that you were more than qualified to be "Corps." Those who thought otherwise should be ashamed. I guess their "spiritual perception and awareness" meter was shut off that year... --> I agree, the gross culpability occurred long after the accident. In their actions toward all of you, you as well as Rochelle. I betcha the others could tell stories of how they were written off, also. Regards, Shaz

Dear sky and igotout, Yeah, they got us in, then changed the rules. Dear a la, When I got mad and stopped hanging with TWI, I never felt like I had left my commitment to God. Rather, I felt like TWI's leadership had. It wasn't until Waydale that I came to see that the founder of the organization never had the kind of commitment that he'd demanded of us. Regards, Shaz {Edited to fix a typo, 'cuz I'm getting sick of making so many of them lately...!}

Play fair, sky? Shirley, you jest! My situation was weirder. My husband and I went into the Corps to be Recognized Corps only. No lifetime commitment, onlt one year in res, no Corps assignments after graduation. We were accepted on that basis. I have a diploma to prove it. I was called in by a LC for a Corps evaluation. I went, to tell him I did not need one, I was Recognized. He said, "Oh, 'Doctor' didn't want there to be a Recognized program." Well, tough on "Doctor," there was one! I refused to fill out a "Redeem the Time" sheet, or be evaluated by someone who didn't even know me. Dunno what he ever said to his superiors about that. Didn't care. I was still operating like a TWI-I believer who could choose what to do. Regards, Shaz

Aw, I wanna go back and see how much trouble I can make before I get myself thrown out... ;)--> :D-->

Yes, some of us were more trainable. And Wierwille had ways of finding out who those were. He had very little interest in the run-of-the-mill believer, except if they had money or pedigree. He reveled in their adulation, was all. He concentrated his efforts on clergy, corps, and staff. The "From Birth to the Corps" papers were a fertile ground for locating vulnerable prey. Shaz

Thanks for starting this up on another thread. I wanted to reply, but thought too much discussion would totally choo-choo that topic. When I was in, I loved to look up those cult books, to see if we were in them! Then I would read about the tactics of cults, and reassure myself that TWI wasn't like that. But I was "on the field." I read books and newspapers, had non-TWI friends, disagreed with my branch leader, did what I wanted within and without TWI. Funny how you mentioned the children's songs thing. (Yes, it wasn't every meal, but it was most of them.) When I was at Rome City, I thought they sang just for the sake of the children, and I thought that was cute to want to do something as a group for them. Sometimes, it was annoying. But it wasn't until Waydale that I read that all the campuses did this. How bizarre! And yeah, infantilizing. Like LindaZ said, I don't think Wierwille sat down and read Cult Handbook 101 and decided how he would start a cult. But I think he learned over the years exactly what tactics would yield results. Talk to people who have been abused by their spouses. The similarities in methods are so frequent, you'd think those spouses had a private club to learn how! Wierwille had years to figure out how to control others, and how to surround himself with those he could control. He started in high school, perhaps before. He was a bully, according to those who knew him back then. Then he had a spouse to practice on, then a congregation. But the denomination was too confining, so he started his own gig, to run it the way he wanted. When it grew out of his control, he designed the Way Corps to be the group that was completely under his thumb. The closer to the inner workings of the organization, the closer to Wierwille or Martindale or Rivenbark, the tighter the control. That is the way of abusers -- they must have control. Regards, Shaz

Dear simon, I always thought of the "spiritual perception and awareness" thing as being a combination of receiving lots of revelation and of really "knowing the score" about how devil spirits are working behind the scenes of everything. 'Course, you are talking to the gal who was married to an alcoholic and driving a Pinto right after getting out of the Corps, so I guess I flunked Principle "1! :D--> Shaz

Yes, you have to! Bitten by devils... :D--> So who on eBay didn't like you? And what the heck were you doing on garbage duty? Moonlighting? Yes -- Maine! Wouldja believe it?! Take care, Shaz

Plots, dude! Where ya been? Long time no... Hope all is well with you and yours, Shaz

Compare the lengthier version on Belle's list with these, VPW's list: 1. Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness. 2. Receive training in the whole Word so as to be able to teach others. 3. Physical training, making your physical body the vehicle of communication of the Word as vital as possible. 4. Practice believing to bring material abundance to you and the ministry. 5. Go forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest and need. Can't believe I can still come up with them verbatim, 25 years later. Done from memory, but checked for accuracy, Shaz

Techno could tell you, exy, but then he'd have to kill you... ;)--> Shaz

My mom knew that word, and I did "catch it" for using it! So much for Wayspeak.... Aw, OnionEater, are ya gonna tell us? Pleez??? ;)--> Shaz

Cryptographic, ex. He wrote it backwards. ;)--> Shaz

Dear HCW, Horrendous. Please feel free to stop anytime. Perhaps people are being set free by hearing your story (there are many lurkers here who never post), but it should not be at the expense of your own peace. Okay? Regards, Shaz

Al, you plucky li'l Wayfer, you! I think Wierwille saw himself as the exception to the rule. He saw himself as working harder, knowing more Bible, having more love for people, than anybody else. He had more weight on his shoulders, all that revelation, praying for people, keeping the USA from falling to the Trilateral Commission. Moving the Word, in spite of all the incompetent people. (Sheesh, the Word would probably be Over the World if there just weren't so many dumb people in it!) Moggy deserves some perks for working so hard. Moggy deserves special perks to keep Moggy working at such an intense capacity. The people should be thankful for the chance to serve (service) such a godly cause and such a godly man as me. Don't they feel grateful to be part of the inner workings of getting the Word Over the World? Entitlement is one of the hallmarks of the marcissistic personality. Lack of empathy is another. Regards, Shaz

LOL, Unca Hairy, I made the same kind of pact with God, telling Him He would have to hit me over the head with revelation if He wanted to give me any, 'cuz I needed to know it was Him and not me. I can recall Wierwille saying things at the Rock as well, saying that God had showed him who the government agents were in the audience, stuff like that. Made us all kinda go "ooh, wow, heavy stuff" and look around. 'Course, such an admission flew in the face of all he'd taught about revelation (what's the profit? and don't go around blabbing about what God told you), but principles never stopped a grifter from wowing a crowd. Regards, Shaz

Legal or illegal, I think I knew back in the early 80's that riding in the back of a pickup is dangerous. And to throw 15 people back there, at 50 m.p.h., and add a homemade trailer... Oldies, you don't think there was enough money to buy a couple of vans or buses or trailers for this work? THAT was the responsibility of the BOT. They knew how many people were being transported out to the highway. Satori, thanks for the comparison with Wierwille's insistence on perfection and safety on his AIRPLANE! Regards, Shaz