shazdancer

Testify, WW! Lessee, he was 24 years old, already has a wife and child to support, just out of college, and he ticks off his first pastorate by teaching nothing but the one thing they said not to teach on... real responsible. Then only one year later, he's frustrated? I also got a kick out of his "pretending" to speak in tongues by speaking Greek, then Hebrew. We'd all heard how fluent Wierwille was in those languages, he must've really fooled them... --> And by the bye, his name-dropping, embellishment of the facts (lying), low frustration tolerance and looking for the easiest way to success are typical behavior for people with narcissistic personality.

Dear LongGone, I see it differently. I see that Wierwille figured out a way to never have to pay taxes on his home, but still live in luxury in it for the rest of his life. Servants to tend to his every (every!) need, and workers to maintain every inch of the farm in better shape than it had ever been before. The only drawback was that his heirs would never get it when he was gone. And if his wife should survive him, her living there would be at the whim of the organization. And that is exactly what happened. When Mrs. W became too much of a burden, they tossed her out. Dear WW, You said Nah, you meant that the earth shook when he walked. And that he had an overabundance of brains and brawn.:D--> Shaz

Dear Kit, That is so sweet!Dear Shellers, And if we're ready when they're ready -- we are ready to be an older mentor instead of the Bearer of The Truth -- our children WILL come back, and we will have a friend for life. Sounds like you do! Dear Stayed, You said... I assume you were being facetious, but I have to disagree with you a little. Yes, dole out the money, but I think our job as parents changes at this point. I think what our children come to need from us the most is our respect for their life choices. They may go about finding success in a different way than we would (thanks for that, 3Cents). But as long as their brains are not impaired due to substance abuse, a bad relationship, or cult involvement ;)--> , They will naturally crave our approval. Heck, how many of us sought approval from our parents when we became adults? How many of us still seek it? How many of us feel a void in part of our lives because we never got it? When our children became toddlers, we stopped treating them as babies. By the time they were old enough to drive, we stopped tying their shoes for them! Now they need us to stop making them feel like they are twelve all over again, and begin to accept them as adults. In the end, I think you will see in them a LOT of what you taught. I see a quirky sense of humor, compassion, and a hard work ethic in both my daughters. I am very proud of how they turned out. And I tell them so. (And 3Cents, yeah, they do things differently than I would have at their age. Sometimes, they do it better!) Regards, Shaz

Very cool, Juan, I'd missed the 3 references, too! But I loved the poems. And as I recall, you were too a bit of a Don Juan, Juan. ;)--> Regards, Shaz

Lol, yeah, that sounds familiar! But it sounds like you're doing all the right things, preparing her to be a grownup but without slamming the door behind her. I love the idea of the assessment test, what a great way to get her thinking about her future. Hang in there, she will turn into a person soon!Regards, Shaz

Allan -- Juan's just speaking to them in the language of where they already are, NOT the language they use in front of the uninitiated follower. Regards, Shaz

Dear MTGal, I've seen this phase a lot, both in my own oldest two children, who are both adults now, and in the many students I have seen over the years. It seems that they get into a pushing away of their parents, starting around age 16 and lasting into the college years, as they come home for short durations and learn to relate to their parents in a new way. And the parents learn to relate to their kids as autonomous adults. In a slightly milder version of puberty, they know they're going to be grown-ups soon, so they seem to accomplish the transition to adulthood by pushing for more freedom. But they don't want you pushing on them! So don't rearrange the child's room just yet. Away in college, or away on their own, they often start to miss their family back home, and in short visits or breaks can begin to reconcile their childhoods with their new-found adulthood. It kinda felt to me like I just got to where I liked my daughters again after the middle school years, and then they got all rammy all over again! But they have grown up to become incredible young women (one married, one in grad school) who have both made a point of sharing with me how much they care. In spite of some really sucky times in childhood, they have turned out amazingly well. Hang in there, the best part is just around the corner! Meantime, I'd suggest helping her understand that the boundaries are going to shift slightly. She will be an adult, she will have more freedom to make her own decisions. But likewise, she has to respect your lifestyle in your own home. Is she moving out? Give her suggestions, tell her how the practical world works in terms of landlords and utilities and transportation. Take her shopping for what she might need, but let her make the choices. Is she staying home for awhile? Formulate a plan with her for becoming financially independent. The trick is not to let her just mooch off you indefinitely while she tries to figure herself out. Perhaps after a set time, she should begin to contribute to household expenses. (If you don't need the income, you could quietly put it away for a future nestegg for her.) The point is that adulthood brings freedom, but it also brings responsibility. As she takes on both, she will come to know that you raised her well! Regards, Shaz

Ha, I used to do this type of puzzle in the Dell Pencil Puzzle books all the time! They simply call it Number Place. Shaz

Go ahead, ask your questions, tell the leadership off, AFTER you have left. If you tell them why you ARE LEAVING, you will give them the opportunity to kick you out and spin how possessed you are to the innies around you. You will not get the chance to have your say if they can stop the flow of communication first. Regards, and welcome to freedom of thought, Shaz

A nice list for any relationship, smurfette, organizational or personal. Regards, Shaz

The only reason GB was in charge was because he married C, who had the job (and some training in education) first. I got the sense in the '79-'80 year that she was in charge and he was the understudy. So the uneducated man is more qualified than the educated woman? Yeah right! Typical TWI. Belle and Georgio and Lindy, I agree, "loving up" after striking a child in anger is crazy-making behavior, and part of the abuser's arsenal to open a person up to further abuse. When done to children, it might confuse their understanding as adults of what real love is. Regards, Shaz

Whoa, Wordwolf. I just thought of something. (Every now and then, I think of something, just by accident!) ;)--> "over 3,000 volumes..." I'm sitting at the computer, looking at the bookshelves that line one wall. Each shelf is about 22 inches across, and can hold about 25 books, if they aren't real thick. If the bookcases went all the way to the ceiling, there would be room for 7 shelves, or about 175 books. VP would've needed over 17 bookcases full to satisfy his claim. Now think about his life. He was a student, then a young pastor making very little money his first year. He had a wife. He had a tot and an infant. He said Rosalind Rinker had told him to "lay aside all other reading material and study the Bible as the Word of God...he took her advice and started intensely studying God's Word in the late summer of '42....*" He supposedly saw snow on the gaspumps a month later. So how could he afford to own 3,000 books??? Hmmm... Shaz *the quote is from a booklet called "The Teacher Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille," which was distributed at ROA '85. Even I know how to give credit, and it doesn't make my statement any more difficult to read. :D-->

And of course the only way to help your children "stand" is to put them through the Advanced Class, which means putting them through all the prerequisite classes....Of course. --> Shaz

Dear Belle, Maybe you're just parking in the handicapped spot by mistake! :D--> I getcha, though. My ex used to start begging "Father," out loud, if he didn't find a good spot the first time around. (He was also known to curse the snow he didn't want to shovel, a la Jesus and the waves.) Pretty pitiful stuff to gauge your "walk" on whether or not you get a spot close to the store! Regards, Shaz

I think a big part of what confused us, Mr. H, was love. We were trying to live what we were taught. Leadership, however, right up to ol' VP, was trying to take advantage of our love. It wasn't mutual, which is how love should work. It was imbalanced, which is how abuse works. Regards, Shaz

The Trilateral Commission, and their secret move to write a new Constitution and take over the US in 1976. Thwarted by the prayers of faithful TWI-ers. But just in case it didn't work, we were all to have an escape plan to go live in the woods! Looking back, it fascinates me that the plan was NOT to get together and help one another to survive, no, it was going to be every man for himself. I guess VP was going to go off and "survive" on all the gold they had stashed away.... Regards, Shaz

It must be the season... A nineteen-year-old man in Stamford, CT stashed his drugs under a rock, outside the Stamford police station, on his way to court on a different matter recently. When he got back, the drugs were gone, but he found a note which said something like, "Look up at the building in front of you." The kid looked up to see the police waving at him from a window. Then they arrested him. The guy's father (who had recently kicked the kid out of the family home for his drug behavior) delivered the final blow, duly noted in the press: "I didn't raise him to be so stupid." :D--> Shaz

Dear bliss, Hi, and welcome! Your husband is afraid that there is "nothing out there for him." It just depends on what you're looking for in a fellowship. Are you looking for a bunch of people who all agree on every point of doctrine? I daresay you don't have that in The Way right now. In fact, there never was a time when everyone agreed on EVERYTHING. Just look at the disparity of beliefs concerning sex outside of marriage, and it's clear that there were disagreements on major points of doctrine right along. Do you want a place where most of the people agree on most points of Biblical interpretation, like 4 crucified, speaking in tongues, etc.? Then check out the offshoot groups. There are some big ones that have classes and big meetings, and smaller ones at the state and local levels. Or are you most concerned with finding people who love God, and want to lovingly help others? Is "walking in love" the most important part of doctrine in your family? Check your local churches. I daresay there are plenty that have done the love thing better than TWI, and for many more years. Don't discount the rest of the body of Christ. They don't discount you. Regards, Shaz

Hehehe, the sound card on my computer died a long time ago, but I remember this story from an Imus in the Morning segment many years ago. I guess there was no love lost between the two radio hosts.... Cracks me up every time I think of that tape! Doesn't make you want to submit a resumé to Kasem, does it? Chill, Kasem -- have a Scooby snack! :D--> Shaz

No sweat, Paw. I was just thinking of how it felt to Exy, which has nada to do with your appropriateness in editing a few posts. And hey, can you guys all wait until the morning hours to post the controversial stuff, 'cuz it always seems to be gone by the time I get to read it! :D--> Paw, do what ya gotta, you always play fair. Exy, so sorry that you're suffering your loss so deeply. And dmiller, I cannot begin to understand the shock of what you're going through. My heart goes out to you. Regards, Shaz

Dear exy, So sorry you are in such pain right now. It must have felt like you had lost your voice, to be removed from the place where your voice had been heard for so long. I am not sure if what I have to say (below) pertains to you, but it seems like it should go here: It seems to me that most of us grow into adulthood with "issues" left unresolved from our relationships with our parents, even if the parents were not abusive. If a parent was also an abuser, the sense of unfinished business must be especially acute. We want that parent to understand what they put us through. We want that parent to feel our pain. We want that parent to regret what he/she did. And we want that parent to start being the parent we want them to be, perhaps what they should have been. I have seen more than one young adult go back and tell their parents off. Unfortunately, they rarely have gotten the response that they wanted. The parents were puzzled, or even blamed the child all over again. The adult child often continues to hold out hope that the parent will come around. If the parent dies, that hope dies with them. There is a feeling of being cheated. There was no time left for the parent to come around. I have come to understand my parents (who were not abusers, but who had flaws) as people who tried to do better than their parents before them. It has given me the strength to try and give to myself what was not given to me, and to encourage my children to do better than I have done. Perhaps abusive parents lack the strength to parent themselves. Take care, Shaz

LOL, Hills! My knockers make two statements:THREE CHILDREN and APPROACHING MENOPAUSE, BEWARE! :)--> Shaz

I have made about 150 transactions on eBay, and have a 100% rating on 108 unique users. I have sold books, beanies, and Scrabble stuff mostly. I've had a bunch of repeat customers. I've had maybe 3 transactions that went less than perfectly, once because I messed up an address (it got to the buyer eventually in spite of me!), once because I dropped the book I was selling and had to tell the buyer it was less than described, and once because the guy didn't read the description carefully, so I sent him something extra to make him happy. I have had 3 transactions where the item I bought was a little less than described, but kept it anyway. Only once did I have to negative feedback someone, usually I just don't post any if I think it was just one deal gone bad. Stuff happens, people get sick, etc. Here's some of what I do to ensure a good outcome: I read the feedback, and click on the ones that still have the link to the item. You can get a sense of who the peron is: a pro, a conscientious small-timer (like me), a collector, scatterbrain, etc. Read the description of an item carefully. Read between the lines: what is the seller NOT telling you? If the shipping charge is too high (it doesn't have to be exact, but it should be reasonable) I don't bid. If the seller has a LOOONG discourse on what he doesn't like in a buyer, I don't bid. I use personal emails whenever possible. I ask questions before bidding, and I include a personal note in the email invoice. (I used to not use their email invoice, but it has become harder to bypass that.) I also include my own invoice in the package, not the eBay-generated one. eBay definitely favors the seller, so buyer beware. Regards, Shaz

Nice going, Raf! Now you've crossed over to the other side, where YOU have to tell THEM that you have to cut two inches off to make it fit. (And doesn't THAT sound painful!) You get to be despised and rejected of men, er, reporters. Just remember: if it bleeds, it leads.... Congrats, Shaz

Yuppers, Linda, it was me who had it. Past tense. When I came down with Lyme initially (2001), NASE only covered 25% of a prescription for Ceftin, which had no generic at that time. Cost me over $300 out of pocket. After I'd taken it for a month, couldn't afford more. Perhaps I should have borrowed money and continued the treatment. We'll never know. I'd say NASE is better than nothing, but not great. When they raised their premiums yet again over a year ago, they raised it past what I could afford. Frankly, since I've been ill again this year, the state of Maine has picked up the prescription tab, and I pay for the Lyme specialist myself. Regards, Shaz