shazdancer

WTH, Do some factions of the Jewish community use the Holocaust to promote their own agendas? Yes. Does that make the Holocaust less true? No. And while we're at it, there are plenty of Jews who disagree with the Israeli policies regarding Palestine. Oldies, Next time you want us to read a long article, could you please just provide the link? Copy/pasting that whole long thing makes it look like filibustering, and uses up too much of the website. And even if that John Birch propaganda article is true, I would have no interest in that organization. Proud to have supported the House Un-American Activities Committee? Puh-leez! If the members disagree with our party line, they are free to leave? Whoopie, a real endorsement of free speech and exchange of ideas , which I thought was the American way. John, I understand that this is a hot-button topic in your family. But verbally attacking Oldies will just make him happy. Now he can whine about how nasty we ex-Wayfers are. (See Mike and ck for this tactic.) I for one would love to hear you articulate more about why his stance p...es you off. Socks, As always, you crack me up!!! -- Shaz

LOL, dooj, couldn't help it -- a dancer and a Scrabble player, I couldn't let it slide... :D One of the neatest things I did with my oldest daughter (interior designer) back in high school was to take her and her portfolio to an art college that was doing free evaluations. She wasn't even serious about going to that college, but just having their faculty look at her stuff helped her enormously, both in understanding where her strengths and weaknesses were, and in building a better portfolio. And it built her self-esteem, to feel like she really had what it took. Something you might want to consider when the time comes. Regards, Shaz

Congrats, WW!!!

Nice work! And how old is the junior dooj? And the spelling is "pointe" shoes, btw. And yes, her use of color on the shoes is wonderful. She looks like she will do well in colored pencil or pastels. And we can say we knew her when.... Congrats, Shaz

Dear Lorna, I think there have always been 2 TWIs, the one giving out edicts from New Knoxville and the one operating out on the "field." Back when twigs were pretty autonomous, fellowships could be loving and nurturing without interference. In recent years, more has been done to close the control gap, resulting in the massive exodus out of TWI. Still, some home fellowships have been able to do their own thing somewhat. I agree with you, people apologizing to people can have a huge healing effect on family and friends. I hope it results in "more harmony in the home." I just don't want it to result in the expansion of financial giving to a cult. Regards, Shaz PS -- David, I understood what you meant, and thanks! Please tell my son, "Shaz is always right....Shaz is always right...." ;)

Pure speculation on my part: perhaps someone (the IRS? their lawyers?) is noticing that they are carrying over a HUGE balance from year to year compared to the low numbers in followers and the paucity of services provided. This is a big no-no for a tax-exempt organization, because even though it is okay to be fiscally sound, the whole purpose of giving an organization tax breaks is so that it can put more resources toward its educational or charitable purpose. A tax-exempt corporation is not supposed to be amassing large amounts of money that benefit only a few. So what's the fastest way to increase their numbers? Simple: convince former followers to return. The dilemma: if they say "we're sorry we hurt you," they may be legally liable. So they need to get the innies to apologize to the outies themselves, bypassing culpability by TWI. 'Course, it's hard getting around that the reason people were marked and avoided was because the presidents of The Way International recommended that they be marked and avoided. And the reason some children were abused or neglected was because TWI either taught or encouraged the abuse, and because they supported the perpetrators. So innies, please apologize for following the doctrine and practice of TWI... then get out. Regards, Shaz

Hi, everyone! Last Saturday was the last day of the month-long walk against Lyme disease. That weekend was also our state YMCA gymnastics competition, held this year in scenic Bar Harbor, Maine on Mount Desert Island. Since Acadia National Park is there, my son and I set aside time to finish the walk, choosing a flat walk around Eagle Lake. Uh huh, a flat hike -- at least, until we changed our plans.... The Saturday afternoon gymnastics session started late and ended later (as these things so often do), so we didn't get to the park until almost 6:30. My feet were tired already from work (they have peripheral nerve issues from Lyme), but I figured that if we walked the carriage road I could wear my Airwalks and keep my feet cozy. I checked the map -- 5.8 miles. I knew I could walk it, but we'd have to hustle to be back by dark. The lake is beautiful! Then the sun sank behind the mountain. Strikingly beautiful. But I knew we ought to step up the pace. At the half-way point, I consulted the map, and noticed a slightly shorter route, a trail at the water's edge reconnecting to the carriage road further on. I know it will be tougher than the carriage road, but we might save some time, and continue to enjoy the view. I ask my son, who seals it by turning down the trail. Note to self: never, ever do this in Airwalks again! What we couldn't see from the trailhead was that about 1/3 of the trail crosses a field of boulders, and the going was slower than ever! Especially so because I was trying to pick my way carefully and not turn an ankle, while Gazelle-Boy was leaping from rock to rock and waiting for me to catch up. Some of this walking was climbing with hands and feet, and we both broke out in a good sweat. I still managed to turn my ankles several times on the uneven trail, but nothing serious. AND we heard our first loon! When we finally regained the carriage road, dusk was turning to night, and the moon was up. One fast mile to go, with one more treat. As we rounded a turn, we both caught sight of the silhouette of a large bird of prey in a tree, and as we got closer (within 30 feet), we could make out its white head: a full adult bald eagle! I've never seen one in the wild that close. He was staring back at us, probably thinking, "I've never seen people that close before. What the heck are THEY doing here at this hour?" So we got back fine, my car wasn't ticketed or locked in (I was kinda wondering!), and we drove back to town for a nice Chinese restaurant celebratory dinner. This summer, we plan to continue hiking on the weekends, but I'm getting some decent hiking boots. AND we'll be spraying with DEET. There's ticks out there, ya know. Regards, Shaz PS -- By Saturday, we're supposed to tally up all the miles, and find out which team "won." I walked a total of 36 miles, and my son walked 46!

Aw, what a neat story, David! I love magic, always have. My favorite is sleight of hand, because it is dependent upon the skill of the magician, not just the props working correctly. Blows my mind that they expected you to leave your client at the door, and stay in the lobby -- sheesh! Nice of your friend to pull a few strings for such a nice "young man," though. :) Regards, Shaz

LOL, no, Allan, that's the joke "pc term." The polite term is little person. There is an organization for little people to share support and information, called Little People of America. Shaz

Funny, djs, but this thread sent my brain went right to the story of the man born blind, even before i read your post. Here's the next part of it, from memory (someone see how close I got it): In other words, Christ saw bad things happen, and thought, "What can I do to make it better? That's my job -- to fix the bad stuff." TWI sees bad things happen, and thinks, "Hah! Serves them right for not believing God. I have a jack, but I'm not gonna help them!" I thought the love of God "rejoiceth not in iniquity." Regards, Shaz

I actually don't post like I speak. In live conversation, I'd be much quicker to just start laughing at someone who was speaking like a jerk, and end the conversation. I try to post here with a view to the words still being here long after the conversation is over. Regards, Shaz

LOL, Abigail! Yes, David, you were missing the mark with that. I think Garth helped steer you in a better direction. Last time I looked, Jewish people in America came from all economic backgrounds. And there is no "one size fits all" attitude about money within this religious group. C'mon, guys, I wouldn't get riled over ck. He just gets his jollies out of ticking us off. And he doesn't mind lying to do it. He posted once pretending to be his own father. He tried to incite an argument between two Greasespotters in chat by making up a story. He goes out of his way to say inflammatory things. I might answer his point so that his junk doesn't go unchallenged, but his act as a whole is pretty worthless, not to mention boring. Shaz

40. Yup. Hi, Shellers!

Wikipedia (thanks Raf) lists 48 different camps. Of those, 10 are listed as "extermination camps," while 17 others are listed as "other major concentration camps." The rest are a mix of smaller concentration and labor camps or transition stations. Auschwitz-Birkenau was the largest of the death camps, with some 1.5 million exterminated there. In the book The Seed of Sarah, the author recalls people being herded from the cattle cars into 2 lines. The line to the right went to the showers and then to the camp; but everyone over 40 went into the line to the left to a different set of "showers," and were never seen again. But there was more than one way to exterminate people. If they weren't gassed, they might be shot for crimes real or imagined. Some died of disease, such as pneumonia or complications from typhus, which was rampant in the camps due to lice. Some died of hypothermia or heat stroke due to the harsh working conditions of forced labor. Some died of starvation. And some, wishing to avoid such cruel suffering, simply took their own lives, sometimes by throwing themselves against the electronic fences that surrounded the camps. It can be argued that a minority died of "natural causes," such as disease, or of complications in childbirth. But there is no way of knowing how many of these could have been prevented had there been access to a hospital. Never again. Shaz

I was thinking the same thing, Belle! WTH, OM, and others who think it never happened, go watch the documentary, listen to the eyewitness accounts of the soldiers who were there, BEFORE anyone had a chance to spin anything. Read the numbers on the signs by the mass graves, estimated BEFORE there was time to think about rewriting history. Ah, forget it. It is because of people like you that I felt I needed to educate my son, so he will never be tempted to think it never happened. Never again. Shaz

Don't worry, these news kudos tend to be a "lifetime achievement award" kind of thing. They see your name on the list enough times, they will start to think it is your turn. Or, you could move up here to Maine, where the pickin's are so bad, that you eventually win by default! :D Shaz

I read both books when I was in TWI, and I reasoned it through like this: if the Jewish Holocaust is less than 6 million, who cares? If it was "only" 3 million, or 6 thousand, or even 6 hundred (which it wasn't, there are enough families out there who lost relatives/friends to make a pretty good count) it doesn't matter. They were still targeted merely because of their religious beliefs. It is still horrendous that Hitler wanted to wipe them out to keep the Aryan race "pure." It is also tragic that he also gathered up homosexuals, intellectuals, and the disabled for the same reasons. I spoke personally with a deaf Jewish man who fled Germany for America to avoid becoming one of those statistics. And I took my son to a lecture by a woman, a retired Bates College professor -- who was there at Auschwitz-Birkenau and wrote a book about it, The Seed of Sarah. I wanted to be sure that my son never had cause to doubt that the Holocaust happened. WhatTheHey, even if Koestler was right, that most American and European Jews are descendants of the Khazars, who cares? If they are Jews because they are proselytes, they are still Jewish by religion. Hitler still went after them because they were of the Jewish religion. We still understand the word "anti-Semitic" to mean Jew-hating, an anti-Semite doesn't stop to ask the person's lineage. Words mean what they mean because of their accepted usage today, or we would still think that "prevent" means "precede," and "by and by" would mean "immediately." Heck, I think we took a class once that examined that.... Sheesh, I figured this stuff out back when I was still in, and I've been out for over 20 years. Shaz

Omygoodness, Clam, I didn't know anything about there being visions of the Virgin Mary on that property! No surprise that TWI didn't want us knowing that part of the history. The only "cures" I know due to drinking involved George Jess's wine cellar! :blink: :D Shaz

Remember, they didn't teach that messing up was "sin" after you were born again. It was "broken fellowship." Even though the Greek word was still the word for "sin," it wasn't sin any longer. That never made sense to me from an "integrity of the Word" point of view. Isn't "broken fellowship" euphemistic? Like, it's not so bad, just say sorry and get back in with God. You even hear that viewpoint expressed here by those who still follow VP's teachings. His sins weren't so bad, they say, when compared to how he taught "The Word." But my Bible says that how God's people treat each other is of HUGE import to God. Regards, Shaz

Huh. Pretty unsound logic. If that is the cream of the crop of TWI youth today, I think we have nothing to worry about TWI reaching many people ever again. "The Internet is not a personal place...." Which is, of course, why you have a Yahoo! group. But I thought The Way wasn't "politics," but the Body of Christ. You'd think they would want to operate by a higher ethical standard than "politics.""But I would suggest checking out the actual web site it has alot of good information straight from the church" -- The website that, as you already said, has no information of substance, and won't disclose anything unless someone "does something," i.e. a lawsuit perhaps? Someone should let them know we're talking about them over here. They are welcome to respond. Regards, Shaz

Wow, Chas, I was just looking at a documentary about this a couple of hours ago.... The KKK had a stronger presence in Maine in the 1930s than it did in the southern states. They were pushing for a Protestant separatism, and wanted the Franco-Americans (who were Catholic) out! The Francos were mostly Quebecois who'd hoped to emigrate here temporarily to work in the mills when their economy collapsed at the turn of the century. They kept their language and their culture, and their Catholic faith. They were also a strong voting block, which p.o.'ed the KKK. Their descendants are still here, and many still try to keep at least some ties to their French heritage, through the arts and the French language. And there are some beautiful churches left, including Saint Peter and Paul's Basilica in Lewiston. The mills have been inoperative for years, and illiteracy is high among the former workers, who thought the mill would be their livelihood forever. But there is still an aftermath of prejudice -- I cracked up the first time I heard someone comment on a dumb move someone made by saying, "That's so French!" So I don't know that I'd disallow him, chef, but I'd sure want to know why he joined the Klan, and where his beliefs are at now! Regards, Shaz

Welcome, Dr. Freud. I was only around Craig a few times, as a part of the Way Corps that was overseen by a different person. (1979-80) So I can't comment on much about his personality, except that he came off to me as a loud-mouthed jock, nothing very subtle or compassionate. But it was clear that the Corps people who he worked with directly adored him, so there must have been something that endeared him to them. You spoke about antisocial personality. I was reading lately that one of the identifying characteristics of a sociopath (antisocial) is that they want you to pity them. Could that be where your "fallen man" impression of Craig fits in? There has been speculation on Greasespot that he and/or V. P. Wierwille were either antisocial or narcissistic. In the case of narcissistic personality disorder, the person often battles depression, either when his facade has been revealed, or in later life, as he realizes that his attempts at creating false selves to be admired don't bring him happiness. Perhaps this is true of the antisocial as well, I don't know. Could this be what you are seeing in Craig, or is he just one big walking narcissistic wound, because he has been found out? Finally, there is evidence that Wierwille was always disfunctional: a bully, risk-taker, heavy drinker, emotional and sexual abuser. His father was an abuser. Some say Wierwille was a nice guy one-on-one, but it doesn't sound like any of them got real personally close to him like Craig (or Howard or Chris) did. But in Craig's case, people have come on from time to time who seem to have known Craig as an okay jock back in the day, but quite changed as he grew in power in The Way. So I think the jury is still out as to whether Craig was born personality disordered, or whether he took on some of those traits as a result of being influenced by Wierwille and a lot of power in the closed environment of "Way World." Regards, Shaz

No sweat, Suda! Just like my favorite Strange Guy said, I've gotten to know you both from your posts, and I think I'd like you both, for different reasons. And so of course, I'd like to see two decent people like you two enjoy your marriage. You came on here looking to understand the changes that ex-Wayers go through, so you could better understand yourself and Sudo, and your relationship. I hope you got some insight, and I hope you stay and continue to contribute, you have such a thoughtful way of looking at things. I hope I wasn't overdoing the Ann Landers thing, but you asked some questions and said some things that helped me better understand what I want out of people, and out of life. So I thank you for putting yourself out like that, it helped me. Take care, Shaz

Thank you, Pipes! Yes, not everyone is aware of it, but occasionally people do die of Lyme disease. And way too many are severely impaired because of misdiagnosis and undertreatment. And most Lyme patients are children. Some Lyme specialists use vitamins and supplements in addition to antibiotics and supportive medicines. A minority also use herbal products. Dr. J uses neither, but is open to them being used if they do not interact with the medicine and the parents think they are helping. It is clear that Dr. J has a good lawyer on board. (He actually represented another Lyme doc against this same board, and won.) We are looking for a good outcome, and a pecedent that will allow Lyme specialists to continue to use sound clinical judgement in how they treat the disease, not just a rote formula that doesn't work, without fear of repercussions. Regards, Shaz

Hi chef! That's the northern edge of Sebago. We ran out of film when we got to the very top, but the view even on a cloudy day was amazing, and the chilly breeze coming up the mountain was, well, chilly! I will put together a packet for you by Wednesday, thanks! Shaz