mstar1

That research page LINK provided above is one of the lamest things I have ever read. It gives no indication at all of anything that they do or dont believe, any sense of doctrines that they hold or any works that they as a body carry out--things that just about every christian group provides front and center....like waysiders quote it basically says nothing at all. are they saying they are an empty shell? Looks like it to me

The Music is The Thieving Magpie by Gioachino Rossini but its the video of the 1965 simple and very colorful cartoon by Italian artist Emanuele Luzzati that I really find enjoyable <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbk0V6rG4Bc&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbk0V6rG4Bc&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbk0V6rG4Bc&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I dont know anything about the Geer group but if they cling to basic TWI doctrines I'd be willing to bet that they do. Its built in

Ill lift a hearty amen to what George said I have no idea what is on 'the other side' but that certainly is a comforting and graceful way to go both for her and her family. Have a good journey Edith

I understand---Its just me (or maybe not) I have been spending years trying to push all the extraneous stuff out of my brain and to NOT see the bible through Wierwillian hoops, filters and lenses and try to enjoy it if I can for what it is. Whenever I hear that stuff its a trigger for me to 'run like the wind'----its like jumping down a rabbit hole to who the heck knows where--I know (beyond a shadow of a doubt ....ha...with a mathematical exactness and scientific precision even )its not good for me ---at all--I'd just as soon lick rusty razor blades than attempt to analyze the bible again as if it were some sort of science experiment to dissect...but thats just me

Hoops, hoops hoops and more hoops ----when your done jumping make sure you have a brass ring in one hand and your fingers crossed on the other-- while your at it add a healthy(???) dose of blind faith too .... Mix well in a bowl and it yields a lifetime of confusion subservience and endless more hoop jumpimg I'll requote my own self I was enjoying this thread but if it goes "doctrinal" I'll be seeing you. ?? Just because its not in full view at the moment doesnt mean that there arent and havent been many christians that have and do take this verse seriously. Now and through history many groups and individuals have been non militant and have if necessary put themselves in harms way. Christian history is full of martyrs that have died rather than taking up arms or cared for thier oppressors and turned them. There are many selfless people in this world. I dont find that hard to believe, what I don't get from the bible believers standpoint is the opposite--Those that will shoot or threaten anyone on sight for minor infractions yet profess to follow the so called prince of peace....that makes absolutely no sense to me at all

Autographed pictures are now available. $5.95 or 4 for $20 Just write me The Creature Box 721 Great Barrington, MA 01230 Allow 6-8 weeks for delivery Im glad to see Im not cast into the outer darkness (again). I just hate that when that happens. Interesting observation about the exway folks that you met. I may be wrong but there is something to me at least that seems very balanced about things that are supposedly called true.Maybe its a yinyangy type thing or something.... I'll give anyone their say but I have to admit I am always a little wary of anyone that gets too extreme on any end--no matter how well intended or sincere they seem to be. Some (not all but some) of the time people do fine then given an opportunity rocket off into the stratosphere of bizarreness and lose me, which to me usually is more likely to indicate some personal imbalance rather than some special corner on "truth". To be fair its not just the religious and spiritual who can be weird or out there at times to me but just about anyone. There is alot of chaos out there.A lot. Im sure most of the time Im just as weird as the next person. I find my balance I lose it I find it again, I lose it -lather-rinse and repeat just like sisyphus -most of time life is like being on a rolling river in a jerking boat with a few fleeting tranquil glimpsing moments if Im honest

Wow where do you find this stuff waysider? That was fun

To me that seems like a more wholesome attitude and honest approach to what the bible has to offer. I can respect that over the "I have no friends when it comes to the word, I'm right, your wrong, I have the bumpersticker and the WWJD wrist bracelet....and the t-shirt..and the nametag--so your opinions are crap" outlook. There is no doubt that the bible is filled with marvelous stories, life lessons, poetry etc that could be ascribed as some of the best written down by humans. It can be inspirational and uplifting in its best moments --but I really dont give a flying f**k where the commas are supposed to go, or endless battles over minor points which to me seem like ego games to elevate one person above another--which to me misses the whole point of anything it may have to offer. To me, and I realize that its just me, once it gets labeled as the one and only truth, excluding everything else, youve lost me and I'll go dancing on my merry way as it then becomes seperated out from the human experience and may as well be a museum piece or a dusty dead relic in a glass display case--the exclusive refuge of the few in the know or who claim to be in the know. Life is symphonic and near boundless in its scope and (doesnt the bible say somewhere) wisdom speaks from the rooftops? I cant see shutting off the valve of inflow that constantly comes from all directions to have one exclusive source to the detriment of all others. I spent alot of time with the Bible in the past, not all of it was bad-some of it I really loved. Most of it is still in there percolating somewhere--sorting the wheat from the chaff so to speak. I was so cocksure of myself when I was dead wrong that I am very hesitant to go down anything resembling that route again. I can see the possibility of how it could bring healing and hope if someone were willing to make the leap of faith necessary but having leaped and crashed like Wile E. Coyote one too many times Im just not going to jump off that cliff again. It can be hopeful at times even without the leap, if only to read what is possible for average and subaverage humans like myself. Whether or not it is truth, contains some truth, or is just amixture of great literature I really dont know--so I leave it at that for now. I hope I dont come across like that..The older I get the less I really know about anything at all.. which in another manner of speaking is the real truth---Im not ashamed to admit Im utterly clueless on a cosmic scale but I am doing the best I can. I dont think that there is anyway that anyone can know for sure at least I sure can't At this point I have far more questions than answers, and believe it or not I have learned to like life much more that way

Was that you? I thought it was a telemarketer calling Yup Im back here in the arctic tundra aka the berkshires all curled up in blankets and unwilling to move until it warms up and thats the truth

Maybe that reveal will happen to me one of these days--Im not closed to it but I havent experienced it so I have no desire to force my square peg into that round hole and attempt to make it happen or worse pretend its happening when its really not.... I have to admit my way experience (and a few subsequent ones) soured my experience with christianity. I was told once too often exactly what "truth" was, and no matter how I tried it just didnt jive completely with the reality that I was experiencing. Since I was obviously outside their accepted realm of truth it created all sorts of issues for me that were not all that easy to come to terms with... I finally chucked it more or less and worked on figuring out my own self and attempting to live some sort of productive and beneficial life in some sort of decent manner as I see it If that gets Jesus or some other deity upset--well Im willing to accept that--he/they/them can do with me as they will --- The ride at least was good . I tried, I really did but most of the time I just dont get it

Its an interesting subject..I think that just about everyone has some sort of desire to find out what is true and what is untrue, if not in a wide sense at least for themselves and their own life. TWI co opted that and became the sole arbiters of truth available for the one time low cost of your life blood and soul. Im sure some people still believe that the bible is the whole source for truth but to me it is narrow. It really wasnt until after I left, was not quite so gung ho as I had been and worked with some Buddhists that I realized that these people were not possessed but actually had some very interesting viewpoints and understandings of things that werent at all contrary to the better parts of what I had learned from TWI. To me that started opening up a broader way to see things than through the bible alone filter. Of course maybe "narrow is the way" and Im screwed or it could be that was added in as a control measure to keep the followers on the straight and narrow...in the same way that "no man comes unto the Father but by me" may be true or it may be a very big ego moment by an otherwise very cool guy who had some human control issues...and of course youd have to first believe in the Hebrew FatherGod concept for that to hold any weight anyway. Im not sure but Im willing to take my chances. Truth is in a lot of things. There is truth in relationships, truth in business, truth in science, truth in politics etc etc that is almost always difficult to ferret out and get to...in a religious or spiritual sense Jesus was a 'truth teller" but I dont think that he was the only one who formulated ideas with universal appeal and application (Love, Forgiveness, compassion etc etc...) The questions about life after death --Heaven, Hell, Reincarnation etc etc, to me are ALL conjectures even if recorded by spiritual thinkers as they cannot be known. IF people do choose to believe one of those concepts and take it on faith (The return of Christ, heaven,paradise, reincarnation..whatever) it may be very comforting to believe it is "the truth" but it is a choice and at best a hope that it is the truth on which they are willing to gamble. Best of luck to them in their hope. I dont mind people believing that, it does perturb me though when peoples opinions and personal decisions do become the only way for everyone else to conduct their life. and that is "truly" how I feel about that...I too have my own path of discovery that is hard enough to stay on without being wrenched off it time and again. So far its been difficult but good and true enough for me to most of the time stay at peace with myself. If im wrong, im wrong..but I am willing to live my path and if necessary go down with my ship and for me thats fine. I just got sick in TWI of spending my time "driving someone elses ship" and someone elses take on "the truth"

Im not one of those people that claims the bible is my only source for truth anymore. I happened across THIS ARTICLE that not only gives me something to think about but an abundance of pretty good quotes Among them.....

I was thinking about the same thing---they're doing something to change their image to the locals...I have to wonder if its a "no strings attached" genuine community service thing or if they will use it as a 'witnessing opportunity' to pummel the weakened, dizzy and blood dificient with greencards or whatever the hell they do now...

Well THAT was comprehensive I'll have to pick that up. I heard a John Prine song yesterday that reminded me of this thread "I heard Allah and Buddha were singing at the Saviours feast and up in the sky an arabian rabbi fed quaker oats to a priest Pretty Good Not Bad They cant complain 'cause actually, all them Gods are just about the same" John Prine

Wasnt there one of those in Bullingers Companion Bible from about 1900?I was hoping the thread was going to include a comprehensive list of God names ( Shiva, Mithras, Krisna, Brahma, Freya, Ganesha, Gaia, Isis, Odin, Kukulcan, Quetzecoatl,Zeus,Maia,Vishnu etc etc etc....Heck even an old standby like Allah has 99 names all by his own self --imo that would be an interesting project Most of the "top dog" ones more or less have all the same attributes no matter what culture they came from....

that seems to be the main message... Im sorta partial to Fly By Night Ministries or How to be approaching 70, still whining and still clueless--

I'd think that anyone while they are still in would have to have a higher than normal level of fear and anxiety. Not alot of other people that I know (in fact exactly zero) believe that "the devil is the God of this world, or look for devil spirits under every rock. Its a fairfly anxious way t live.... It always seemed to me that when anyone especially any leader was going though the normal stresses of life which most people know how to adjust to--it would inevitably be followed by psychotic ramblings and teaching about devil spirits. Life would be miserable around these people because they hadnt yet learned even the simplest coping mechanisms to deal with reality

I havent read this whole thread but I have always thought that TWI was a breeding ground for mental illness. Aside from the obvious like hearing voices and seeing devils which you can find in most psychiatric wards, Ive heard them rail against everyone from Mother Theresa to Martin Luther King then find something good to say about Hitler. They were also the only bible group Ive ever heard of where you were more likely to hear cussing during a teaching or get yelled at than hear the name of Jesus. Which is another thing--if you said Jesus without the Christ part you were probably possessed ....WTF?????? It was completely nuts--trying to believe the doctrine would defin itely make you batsh!t ,ill and in need of help

Wow Quick year hell it was a quick decade ...Happy New Year Everyone

/scratches head /wonders --where I have a heard this thread before? O yea thats it! <object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtuKSN5Jn4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtuKSN5Jn4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtuKSN5Jn4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object> Good Luck bofjc

I dont know if his is exactly on topic but for my money I have never ever seen another group of people anywhere that was so obsessed with devils as TWI. Looking back on it now is incredibly bizarre. I dont know what it was all about--whether it was a response to all the dark repressions stuffed by way doctrines... all the masked internal fears filtering through disturbed minds or what it was, but it was clinical insane and at times was like agroup psychosis

Bingo I AM an employer and know very well that productivity, quality of work (and quantity) can be measured by how much you pay people... I dont know if anyone has done a study--but someone should....Like it or not money genuinely motivates people..its not exactly rocket science I have tried paying people everything from way too cheap, to $10, $15, $20, $30, or $40/hr, to more. The more I pay, the higher my production and the more I $make- You always get what you pay for. If a company does have some policy that they pay minimum wage (boo! boo!) I would bet my house AND my left footcomplete with all my toes that they would make more profit paying a higher min wage than the lower with the same number of employees. Its human nature

This one is from CNN-- Apparently its just not time to celebrate until the traditional toppling of the Pope is completed

Speaking of Vin---I just took a walk aroud my neighborhood. There was one of those :) :) historical markers, so I stopped to read it. It was the birthplace of Red Barber...... :) dang Im getting teed at the way this thing screws up my posts and i cant see or edit them anymore---but you get the idea what I mean