mstar1

I like them old ballpark books that have seemed to haver sprouted up the last few years, They even sell the models now, the pictures of old Fenway that have been unearthed recently with a playable hill in left before the wall was built are great. I haven't been to that many minor league parks (shame on me), but the oldest in the nation , or so they say, is about 15 miles from me, Wahconah Park in Pittsfield Mass was built around 1890, its still in use but faces the wrong way, so there is about a 20 minute break about the second or third inning every game to let the sun go down in the outfield. Its quirky that way, but gives you that oldtimey baseball feel just by being there. Jim Ball Four Bouton,a local here is trying to get it restored, its still a great place to watch a game... ...sounds like a good book...I wonder how much of a fans appreciation of the game is framed by the stadium. I know Fenway to me is a shrine, maybe you feel somewhatthe same about Wrigley, Do fans who grew up in The cookie cutter stadiums experience the games the same way as fans in Wrigley or Fenway or Ebbets field or other places that have generations of history tied to them? Its late--Im ramblin' ....at 10 I liked those halo's and watching them turn Jim Fregosi to Bobby Knoop to Don Mincher DP's, I don't know if I could watch shorts though...wouldv'e like to seen the House of David with the beards --theres nothing quite like cult baseball.

Usage 8? the boys from balco? The growers of cork in South America? All of the above?of whom do You speak? Sammy's a little expensive for the year he had, and although his past looks great its hard to predict if his future is worth what he'll earn. I sorta doubt it myself I've never really been into GMing either but I just finished reading "Moneyball", it was agreat read and it has become all that more interesting to watch the games behind the game. Hey Wait--I clearly remember you requesting painkillers after Sosa's AB's a few short months ago....you want to go through that again? If the Cubs could dump Sosa's salary they would have a shot at several quality players to replace him and fill in some gaps I imagine... O and another thing- It was never on the table?? i wish ESPN (whose been running it on the ticker every 30 seconds for the past week)and these other sports writers would quit announcing stuff every five minutes that proves not to be true. Sorry-I got the pre Christmas grumpies

Good Point Satori, Someone has to be mightily depraved to trump a child molester, but Craig always wanted to be "the Best" and the "Star of the Show", I suppose in some incredibly perverse way he has gotten just what he wanted. As far as what we were thinking- well those who were there --weren't, blind allegiance is a very dangerous thing.

I do have to wonder if a full-blown nativity scene is comparable to a single menorah or crescent. It'd have to be a mighty big a$$ menorah or crescent to achieve the same kind of scale as your traditional nativity scene, but thats beside the point I wish these holidays could be more about promoting mercy and love for your fellow man instead of fighting over where and whose holiday based trinkets could be set on the public lawn.

1)Would you say you were at a major “turning point” in your life when you started attending cult meetings? I was looking for a turning point, things hadn't been well for a few years. 2)Did you feel you were in an undesirable state when you became interested in the teachings? Yes, I had a few hard years prior to becoming involved, but it was more the people initially than the teachings that I was interested in. 3)Had you tried other avenues to resolve a problem causing you tension in your life before resorting to the cult’s solutions? Yes 4)Did the cult isolate you from your regular peer group? Yes 5)If you expressed a different point of view from the group, did the group reprimand you and explain the proper way to think? Yes 6)Were you discouraged from analyzing things for yourself, and encouraged to conform? Yes 7)Were your decisions about individual actions taken away, and replaced with a strict regimen of group activities including group eating, sleeping, listening, talking, working and playing? Yes 8) Do you think the public teachings were delivered with skill by polished, knowledgeable and dynamic speakers? Looking back No, but at the time they seemed so, that was reinforced by the every present groupthink

With thousands being taught intricately how to think and act, and being indoctrinated by two predators (Wierwille and Martindale), I'll be somewhat surprised if we don't see a lot more of this coming to light in the coming years. :(--> If someone had the predisposition-TWI doctrine and practice was a breeding ground to bring it all out and let it run rampant. ..everything after its kind.. I can't believe they only gave him 6 years..

Well its midwinter and you have to look forward to something--I just heard The World Champions will play the ALCS Losers on ESPN Sunday Night baseball on April 3rd @8:05 Eastern to open the season... Lets do this all again! If David Wells starts for the Red Sox, it could set a record for the earliest in the season that Steinbrenner has blown a gasket

We traded Ruth for the bosses kid this year,a great trade and it worked out -well- you know how it worked out... our mourning was turned into joy. He gets along well with the guys, helped pull the team together and pulled off a few miracles. I dont know when his contract is up or when or if he'll decide to move to another team, he hasn't been talking to the press much this offseason. I hope he stays forever, it makes for exciting baseball. He's a real team kinda guy...

WHAT?? How sick is Way Doctrine that these three statements can be put together? The idea that he would even consider going back to ' a ministerial career' (can't he figure it out yet he might not be quite qualified??) or that anyone would ever even consider putting him in that position shows how skewed (or is it screwed..)that place is.. That place is abominable--masters of denial...

Just goes to show ya---Some threads are as grass which today is and tommorrow is thrown in the oven, but baseball and baseball threads liveth and abideth forever...

Yea I miss those days of the reserve clause when you had the same guys every year, and every trade was a major gasp. They felt like family that you got to know..Its a different game now, which has its pluses and minuses. I dont know what teams like the D'Backs should do to fill their fan base--its probably a good idea to keep a few exciting guys around for a whole career, it locks an identity onto a team, I think..the 60's teams that I grew up with always had at least one name on each team that was a favorite an easily identifiable. They don't have that problem up here we're born into being Red Sox fans that goes back generations...and it certainly doesn't hurt that the new ownership group has been great at listening to the fans and responding and making games a very fan friendly experience... This thread is a year and a day old today...

It is rumorred: (is that the official motto of the offseason this year/) as of about 5 minutes ago Newsday Reports: Johnson to Yankees, Vazquez to Dodgers, Brad Penny and Shawn Green to D'Backs in a three way deal. bunch of others involved... I'll be expecting HillsBro to show up if its true...

Well I agree with you that a lot of pitchers have great stuff but don't get it and the true art end of pitching can probably be learned or at least the mind can be applied in that direction, if they so choose. That was the real value of Varitek and I suspect Matheny in St.Louis also. V-tek has agreat baseball mind and prepares arduously (is that the right word?) for every game with the pitching staff for hours and hours every day. Some pitchers took the preparation part of pitching seriously and some didn't and it usually showed. Schilling blew me away -he would be taking detailed notes in the dugout in between innings and have several notebooks to refer to, on days that he pitched. Others like Lowe or Mendoza often just showed up empty headed and would wing it--it showed--even though they do have great stuff. The majors are filled with stories of the guys with great stuff who never did anything,(how's Casey Fossum doing?) natural ability helps but isn't enough, pitching is an art, --90% of the game is half mental-- If I were a GM I'd be looking for the guys not only with stuff but who with meekness study diligently the scouting reports to shew themselves approved , otherwise there shall be weeping and cursing and booing and much gnashing of teeth. This message has not been edited. mstarpneustos by: mstar1, December 16, 2004 17:55

Without pitching...thou shalt surely die early in the playoffs. or Without pitching..thou shalt not surely die early in the playoffs Well what is it? Somebodies GOT to be a Liar, ..if I was a bettin' man....

I dont know-the development this year of the Red Sox was interesting to watch though....First off the pitching staff stayed healthy for the first time that I remember, then it wasn't one guy, but two number 1 pitchers in Schilling and Martinez, a former 20 game winner (Lowe) as the number 3, a well rounded consistent guy as number 4 (Wakefield) and various # 5's (eventually settling on Arroyo), and for the first time in recent memory a good closer (Foulke). The Sox always hit well. Even with that, for about three months they were spotty and played at .500. When the Nomar trade added Cabrera (a gold glover) at short and Mientkiewiez (another gold glover) at first, all of a sudden two or three ground ball singles a game were converted to outs and there were fewer errors on playable balls...Pitchers instead of having to get 28-29-30 outs per game were having to get 27 and sometimes less as basehits were robbed, its amazing what those little unsexy statistics did to the team and the pitching staffs confidence. During August-September, all 5 starters started routinely going 7 nearly everyday, which had been rare for years ( it had seemed every other day someone was getting knocked out in the 3rd or 4th-which stressed the bullpen -sometimes for days afterward). There may be other ways to win, but the Red Sox have always had a good hitting team, going back to the days of Ted Williams and Jimmie Foxx and they never did it. This year was the first time that I remember that the entire pitching staff was solid and didnt have a gaping hole somewhere and it paid off. Not being close to the national league i dont know how the Cardinals did it over a season with the staff that they have ( unless Duncan and LaRussa have some serious good voodoo goin'), but I did see what happened when they ran into Schilling/Martinez/Lowe. The Sox were lucky in that they had few injuries and when they did they had solid replacements all year, they also found their stride and gelled at just the right time, but I think the management played the right factors and put the key elements in place which included pitching and defense for it all to happen. They're all of the Bill James school of baseball thinking which is all new to me but damn, it sure seems to work...It was pretty cool to watch. Now the Sox are going after Renteria, another gold glover and after I personally got to hug a World Series Trophy (Thank You Jesus!Praise you! praise you!) I am beginning to see that as long as there is a Fenway Park there will be great hitters, but combining it with a pitching and defense approach is what makes winners. ..and I do agree with you--the heart and soul of a team will never really be a pitcher ( although a guy like Schilling was a spiritual leader this past year) or even one guy so much anymore. Jason Varitek was the sort of heart and soul guy for the Red Sox this year but he wasnt the stand alone guy with the biggest numbers. He was the guy who handled and gelled first the pitching staff, then the rest of the team for them all to perform to the best of their ability and into their roles and find themselves. I hope the days of teams with a few prima donnas and a cast of thousands is gone, winning baseball takes 25 working together..

Apparently Schillings ankle surgery is progressing slowly-He said yesterday he may not be ready until May, with Pedro a Met, and Lowe likely going somewhere else..that leaves Wells starting opening day in Yankee Stadium...which is bound to tick off the Yankee fans....(which is a good thing ;)-->). I dont know about the nine batters-pummel em to death- and fill in the gaps with what pitching you can idea. The Sox have always had good or great hitting and by itself never went anywhere. Two years ago they had 8 guys with 85+ RBI and the batting champion hitting ninth, it got them to the postseason but not far enough. Last year they acquired pitching on the frontend (Schilling) and the back end (Foulke)but it still wasnt until they shored up the defense at the trade deadline that the team found its stride. The added D seemed to add oomph to the starting staff, who one through five, all started going 6-7 innings each with regularity. That seemed a key to the turnabout in the season which the Red Sox took 86 years to figure out..(Defense and pitching?? whoduh thunk?)..of course the lineup was still potent, but each guy on the pitching staff was very important. The setup guys ( thats why I asked about Mantei)who for years in Boston were just throw in players became crucial parts of the puzzle as well, and when they worked things got much better.... If there is one thing that I learned from the 2004 Red Sox is that all 25 players have to consistently contribute at a high level, in their specific role to win...

well scuse my lame early mornin attempt at humor-----I dont understand why the D'backs gave Troy Glaus (Mr. Injury ) four years, seemed a little risky to me, but then again I'm not a GM....looks like Pedro is going to the Mets...all I have to say is thank you for 7 of the best pitching years i have ever seen and possibly some of the best anywhere at anytime, but the Mets??, isn't that the kiss of death for once great players?? and yea Ok I'll take Wells if only to .... off Yankee fans but there will be scrambling to get a full rotation together - Wells is Ok but he is not Pedro..... rings..rings...that has a nice ring to it... it did really happen didn't it? Sometimes I still think it's a dream......

So the Red Sox gave a two year deal to David Wells,a 41 year old pitcher,yesterday. He’s not just any 41 year old pitcher, he’s a 41 year old pitcher who is chronically overweight, has a bad attitude and may well be an alcoholic. Also, he hates Fenway Park and has expressed an interest in heading the demolitions crew should the Red Sox ever take crowbar to steel. Signing Wells for two years for $8 million with the potential for him to earn $10 million more in incentives is the sort of the deal that not only raises eyebrows, but causes eyebrows to become fuller, thicker and more lush in order to be more noticeable as they are raised. There are a lot of Sox fans walking around today looking like Michael Dukakis or Frida Kahlo. GM Theo Epstein has earned a lot of faith and a lot of good will by putting together a WORLD SERIES CHAMPION team, but I'm still a little wary of this deal. Everyone says that Wells will fit in perfectly with the Red Sox “bunch of idiots”. Now I like people with extremely low IQs as much as anyone, but is it possible that the Sox are starting to take this approach a little bit too far? Instead of focusing on skill, age, and conditioning, is it possible that the Red Sox are only looking for people with limited mental faculties? If that is the case, is it possible that a Jose Canseco signing is just around the corner? a comeback from Mike Greenwell? or Oil Can Boyd? I am concerned. So in order to prevent these sorts of dangerous moves from happening in the future, I have a simple suggestion. Instead of acquiring idiots, the absolute lowest end of the IQ spectrum, maybe the Red Sox should start acquiring morons...people who are still very stupid, but not quite as stupid as idiots. After all, if they are looking for elderly pitchers who aren’t terribly bright, Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson are still available.... ...must be something in my coffee this morning....

Probably not-I'm 49 something, If I had my way I'd never leave the bed--except to eat once in awhile and go on vacation... ;)-->

:)--> Pretty Cool Raf Got a picture? -well one of you two I mean

Its a very long way away. I'm Jonesin Its been 6 weeks since the Red Sox won the World Series,6 weeks! How long must this drought last? How long must we suffer?? ;)--> :D--> I agree, part of the memorabilia experience is the memories and emotions that it evokes. I don't see anything worth recording memorywise for shelling out a thousand bucks and waiting in line. It's artificial, but I would have loved to have been there when you found that ball and what must have surged through your being when you made out the signature for the first time. Just reading it is exciting thinking you have a baseball signed by Cobb. (TY @#$% Cobb?? holy @#$%!, My grandmother ( a great fan) told me about Cobb, the sharpened spikes, spitting at fielders, always taking the extra base, the huge bat. Sitting on her Oriental carpet I was wrapped up in legendary tales of Cobb and Ruth and Smoky Joe Wood and...later at 10 cutting out pictures of Cobb from Sport Magazine and having them tacked on the wall in my bedroom where he stayed for several years, along with an old yellowed boxscore of a game between the Tigers and Yankees that mentioned both Cobb and Ruth - It all comes rushing back at the mention of his name, from the smell of the cookies my grandmother was baking, to the color of my wallpaper, to the feeling of the hopes for spring... That's what memorabilia is for, for just a moment it's not friday and Im on my way to work, (which I have to get serious about in a minute), but I'm 7 and my grandmother is alive again or I am 10 and hoping for spring to come soon. It keeps all those people and moments alive at least for me. I dont think guys like those hawkers get it or will ever get it. Their loss. -scuse my little flight,sorry about that. Back to business I just picked up the calendar and it looks like 67 days give or take a few until spring training, it'll be interesting to see how everyone linesup by then, If the Yankee DeathStar has completely imploded by then and who will be the surprise teams. It'll be tough to beat 2004 One day I'd like to see that baseball of yours and I'll tell you of my run in with Johnny Van Der Meer- Hows that truck coming along? hope we get some more pics soon, and What's your rundown on Mike Mantei?

This weekend: Spend $1000.00 to meet Slappy and Roidboy in NYC. Hurry hurry--They really need the money. This is funny, dont you think they might owe just alittle bit to the fans and to baseball itself after what they have made to be goodwill ambassadors of the game, or at the very least make it reasonable? I know its alot of hard work signing an autograph but $1000.00?? Apparently not.. The best quote that I read on this when it was originally billed as the 'Ultimate Arod Experience' was from a Yankee front office exec who said, "How about getting a hit once in awhile with runners on base? That might qualify as the ultimate ARod experience."

Yea I am curious about your old church group as well.

Is it the vote count that he'e interested in, or that peoples votes actually count?

George was one of the millions of stories from Red Sox Nation,