RottieGrrrl

Lifted up. Thank you. I Think you summed that up very well. Though the trinity is a HUGE part in play, I also realize it's not always the only thing. I seem to remember a case where a Pentacostal man sued CAN (I think he had the Scientologists backing him with the lawsuit) for being kidnapped by a deprogrammer. Somehow CAN was involved, and it was another HUGE settlement they had to pay, which put another nail in the coffin for the organization. oldies: Yes, I absolutely believe that the trinity was a huge reason the Way was picked on, which overshadowed much of the crap that actually went on. It was especially frustrating for me, when I was trying to break the chains of my mind and looking for help, only to find pages and pages of "Christians" with websites and help pages available, only to find that not believing in the trinity was somehow more dangerous (or at least as alarming) to them than the actual psychological damage that was inflicted. As far as the Catholics go these Protestants who decide just who is and isn't a cult have to be careful. The Catholics have been around a long time. But you can bet people pick on them. On one hand, they do fit the "cult" definition as defined by "Christianndom" as they believe the sacrements of the church save you, and not grace? Am I right about that? I was raised Catholic but didn't pay attention in CCD. hee hee. Just go to google and put in "signs of a cult" and I think that the first response you get is some guy trying to save all the Catholics from damnaton or something. In 1999, the Southern Baptists were going to send out some huge army of people to Chicago to try to witness to all the Catholics. They really were going to go ahead with this thing. It was all over the news. Then for some reason, (sanity perhaps?) they decided against it. Geez, I can't even imagine the trouble that could have been over here. diaz: Thank you for the links, Very interesting reading. I hearted them (er, that's aol for put them in my fave places) and will look them over more. Garth: What can I say, you said it all. I can't even add more. I am completely complete in agreement with you on this particular subject and appreciate you putting things into words that would be on my mind, but I wouldn't know how to word it! ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

PS Garth, thanks for your reply, totally agreed with you! BTW Highway, CAN the cult awareness network, (who got sued to bankruptcy by the scientologists) claimed that they went by the behavior, and not the doctrine too. That was an out and out lie. I've seen there stuff on the Way. The doctrine was attacked as much as anything else ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Highway. Not ONE source. Just about EVERY source that considers themselves a Christian "authority" on cults. I'm not talking about a secular viewpoint on cults here. But from a so called "Christian" perspective. I"m sorry I didn't make myself clearer. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

The other thread about TWI being a cult got me thinking. Actually, this has been on my mind for ages, but I'm inspired to bring it up now. The one thing that bothers me when people call TWI a cult, is when they bring their doctrine into it. And I mean the Trinity (yes, there's the unmentionable T word I swore I'd stay away from) and the "divinity, or pre-existance of Jesus." It seems like in the "expert on cults" circles, that according to them, The sure fire way of identifyng a cult, is If they don't beleive that Jesus is God. Of course, these same groups are quick to point out that there are non christian cults too. Excuse me? How does that work? From a Christian veiwpoint, since when is it worse to believe that Jesus is Lord, but not God, than to not believe in God at all or worship ...according to a so-called Christian perspective... a false God. Can anyone see the hypocrosy here? I know for a fact that if you ask the normal average Joe on the street, "Do you believe Jesus pre-existed." They'd go.."huh?" Or if you ask them about the trinity, they would say Sure! I believe in it! Just parroting what they've been taught without actually thinking about it. And certainly if you pressed them what it meant, they'd have different responses. Then I see the mainstreamers, knock down other churches. The protestants attack the Catholics, the Mormons are attacked, (I wont even go into the Jehovah's) Pat Robertson has attacked the Methodists and Presby's before. Everyone is calling everyone else a false prophet because of doctrinal issues. I swear if I hear that one more time....Just who is safe here? It seems to me that these same people who are accusing other groups of being a cult are just as narrow minded and bigoted as the groups they are attacking. I'm talking about when they attack the doctrine, not the behavior. And yes, if they preach bad doctrine, or twisted doctrine, that can manipulate people,that certainly is a factor. But that's not what I mean here. BTW, I 'm just waiting for the day that these people start preaching that in order to be saved you must believe in the trinity. So far, I haven't seen that openly when they teach on salvation. They go by what scripture says. (Im talking about TV preachers and such) But I HAVE been told that I'm not saved because of it. I'd like to hear others thoughts on this as well. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Well, the original time I was in The Way 1, I just drifted off around 1981. Everyone was moving about and things just sort of fell apart in this area. Lucky me. With the offshoot I later went back to, the question is more like "what the hell took me so long to leave?" For about 7 years I kept going and I don't know why. Most people would barely say boo to me. I would leave there feeling dead. Finally I just couldn't bring myself to go anymore. I just couldn't stand the thought of going and listening to one more teaching. Ugh. After being away for a few weeks, the fog slowly began to lift. Now I wouldn't go back if they provided a limo service and free beer during fellowship. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

I love that one by Rita Rudner. I had that as my signature either here or Waydale but took it off after somebody told me to lay off the poodles. :)--> ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

wayward: I haven't seen that! Oh it must not play around here! The herbal commercials make me sick. I flip them, they are so stupid. You can sell a product without resorting to crap. Patricia Heaton (everybody loves raymond) got cheers for walking out of the recent awards ceremony the Osbournes were hosting cause of fowl language. I thought this was so hypcritical cause her own show is so damned stupid all they make is sex jokes half the time. No way will that show hold up 40 years later like The dick van dyke show, andy griffith, lucy and others. They are appealing to a 12 year old mentality. Which will be there future consumers, I'm sure. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Personally, I liked the classy beer ads. I put that in the past tense because I haven't seen one for awhile. I was watching Close Encounters a couple weeks ago, and in one scene they have that Old Budwiser commercial with the Clydesdale horses. Remember that one? I LOVED that. Why can't they make them like that anymore? ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

I've always wanted to take a basic marketing strategy class (is there such a thing?) to see just who some of these commercials are aimed towards. That's as far as I'm going to go without risking offending anyone. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Sogwap: Thanks for answering me, I was just curious. Plot.That's a great response. To be fair though, I did know some very giving people who did the shopping mall and door to door witnessing stuff anyway. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Thanks for starting this Wacky. Okay..There is a lady I met at a dog park, who brings 5 dogs twice a week for a romp. She sits on the park bench and smokes cigarettes and watches the dogs run and play. She is there rain or shine twice a week. She does keep an eye on her brood, and brings them plenty of water and is attentive to them, but damn! What a great idea! Real dog walking (where you bring them out on walks with a leash) can be a bit more demanding. But another great possiblility. Put up ads at the local supermarkets and such. Pet sitting is something I did for one summer as a kid. I made great money, and had people calling me for a few years after that when I had graduated on to other jobs, and didn't do it anymore. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Sogwap why did your friend go then? Is this something he wanted to do, and overcome his fear of witnessing door to door? I don't know if any religious group can make someone go,(well, maybe some, if you want to be a part of the group) but it is a peer pressure thing. ie: it's your Christian duty etc. Some people do have a knack for that sort of thing. But it's done in such a way that you don't feel so pressured or put on the spot. But that I think is a rare gift. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Oak. lol. :D--> Sogwap: There's nothing wrong with having fear. Fear keeps you from doing foolish things. In that case I would say he probably felt uncomfortable and humiliated. I don't see going up to people and preaching The Word as being very effective. First thing they think is "religious weirdo." People have natural boundries that others need to respect. Regardless of the fact that someone may feel it is their Christian duty. Much of that is self serving anyway. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but I get very aggrivated when people do that to me. At best it's annoying. btw: You're friend asking "do you live around here?" is very funny. :)--> Wayward: Good luck to you! I really mean it. I don't know if you can combat a set mentality. I know this cause several years ago I had a bad one myself. The best thing I did was walk away and let the fog lift, then I could start seeing a little clearer. But as long as people keep feeding into there own little mindset, and have a group to back up there thinking..well...there's really not much you can do..except pray. --> Don't you hate it when people tell you to do that? It sounds like such a copout! ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler... [This message was edited by RottieGrrrl on January 31, 2003 at 6:51.]

Sogwap it seems we were posting at the same time. I'm curious about the two by two thing. There must be a reason for it. I'm wondering if it isn't more appropriate for missionaries in a dangerous land. For protection? I don't know. But it seems like the Jehovah's always witness like that. I get em at least once a year. PS Napkinlady didn't your napkin used to fold? ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Witnessing and having classes is what they consider works? Well..I guess in Wayland it is. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Sogwap that's great if Wayward wants to do it, but it's different if people are pressuring you to. Personally I've never been comfortable with people approaching me like that. Besides, it's not like were living in the times of Jesus, the Word is all over the place. Radio, TV, EVERYWHERE. If people want to hear it it's quite easy to seek it out. BTW welcome!! :)--> ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

I just want to add real quick to Goey and Rafael thanks for clearing up the stuff about the angels. It's good to know. On a side note I kind of remember that CES was looking into something in Revelation about them being able to sing..but I don't know anymore than that. But thank you both. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Oh God, my one and only time I was roped into witnessing...LOL! I still remember it! The two dudes I was with, we went to McDonalds. Then we seperated. I went up to some poor guy at the mall, he ended up thinking I was a prostitute! AHHHHHH! How humiliating. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Ex: LOL (eric, ex has a thing about reading lengthy posts...so do I! :)--> ) Eric, I know you have a great heart, I'm just not sure what it means to "seek the lord" anymore. I've had Fundies tell me that. They believe (well, certain branches) that you don't need therapy or support groups..they say you should just Lay everything at the Alter of the Lord. Well...that sounds real bibical you know? But WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MEAN? Sorry to shout. That wasn't for you. Or they tell you if you want to seek Jesus, just "look him in the face." Using one of ex's favorite phrases....huh? So, eric: I think you have a wonderful heart. I wish I was half the person you are in fact. I guess I just don't get how people can be healed yet? PS ex: Hope you don't mind me quoting you! ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

That's an interesting point, WaywordW. And yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly it's like telling God what to do. People have freedom of will. God knows that. Just because you decide to accost someone on the street, doesn't mean they are going to be in the mind frame to accept what you are going to say. In fact, just the very way it's done, I believe is inappropriate. People are more likely to ask questions and seek answers if they feel non-threatened and comfortable with you. It's really something that needs to be played by ear. Of course, you are dealing with people who have a certain mindset about the way things should be done. (like the lady I referred to) Some of these people are just very thick skinned and are so used to being blown off or discounted as weirdo's that no rejection is going to shake them. They just see another chalk mark in heaven for trying, at least. But this is one area that I will tend to stick to my guns now when this comes up.(no matter what religion it is) I will not do something that makes me feel uncomfortable, makes ME feel foolish, and that I have seen very little profit it in. And hey! If other people enjoy doing this sort of thing, and are good at it..well...More power to them! It's just not for me. I'm still working on the courage to stick to my guns on other things... Of course, as I said..you're working against a mindset there... PS. One thing I want to point out, is that God will work with you as an individual. He knows that if this aint your bag, He isn't going to force you to do something you don't want to do. He want's to work with you just the way you are! "billy joel here please" Of course...I can just hear it now... "Step be-yond your comfort zone people!" --> ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

OMG Wayward! LOL! I got roped into that once when back in 1979/80 when I first started going to fellowship. I was absolutely mortified. A few years ago, some lady actually said to me. "Let's go witnessing together sometime." I said. "I don't do that." she said "God will tell you who to go up to." I said "God and me don't work like that together." Honestly, I know he can put on your heart to share stuff with people at an appropriate time, but this stuff of just walking out and saying " OKAY GOD, I'm going to the mall.. SHOW ME WHO TO TALK TO" is something different alltogether. No way am I going to go along with that. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

BTW Erik, even though for the most part I stay away from the Wierwille threads (I didn't know him personally) I DO enjoy your posts and hope you will keep posting. And I hope Buck didn't take off forever either. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Erik: It's not that easy to be healed when you've been hurt. (btw, I never met weirwille) My dad has been dead over 10 years and sometimes I think about things in the past and it drives me insane. Sometimes I still dream of him being alive and I always wake up so relieved that it was just a dream and he's really dead and I don't have to deal with his BS ever again. It certainly doesn't help, when people try to cover up the truth about situations that happened in the past, as many Wierwille loyalists so fiercly do. Being healed doesn't mean pretending things never happened. Everybody deals with pain in there own way. It's a personal journey. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

And Hope thank you. PS Goey, Rafael says Job 38:7 mentions angels singing. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

Goey thank you thank you thank you! And that is a GREAT point you make about the musical instrument thing. ...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...