RottieGrrrl

Trust, thank you for the explanation of rhema and logos. It is a bit easier to grasp than before. rhemos is the words and logos is the thought behind those words. And geisha, what can I say, you once again are bringing things up I never gave much thought to before. Thanks for that. I'm still reading some of the posts here bit by bit.

Okay Trust: I think I'm following along a little bit better now. And I have heard a couple of other preachers talk about this, and at the time I really didn't follow what they were trying to say either. So I appreciate the post, though it is going to take a coule of more readings to sink in. And yes, agape, charity, is a much more fitting word. When a church is spiritually dead, this is what is missing most, from my own experience anyway. They could have ( or THINK they have) the greatest doctrine of all, but without charity, it's dead. Hmm, First Corinthians 13 seems to fit in with that. Thanks for the post. The other posts, well, it's late and I will have to read them later!

Great question and I'd like to hear the answer as well. :) I think that's a great point about righteous anger. I think that is what I was struggling with. I do NOT want to get into a wayfer tangent here, but I remember going to one of their small offshoots in the 90s and at that time they were still teaching stuff like the devil was responsible for the flood, and the angel of death was actually one of the devil's servants not one of Gods. One of the other offshoots (whom I won't name because I don't want to get into another tangent) came out with just the opposite teachings saying that it WAS God who sent the flood, angel of death, etc...and in no way would God use the devil working as His agent etc.. and I believe they went into the righteous anger of God, and they really made a lot of sense. But yes, you point out some great truths, all in all. Yeah, satan sure can't save himself. So should he even bother when he can take a lot of people down with him at the least, I guess. Brideofjc! Hi! :) Believe me, I know TBAA is only a show. They really miss the boat on a lot of things, which is why we can't depend on TV to be the ambassadors of truth, no matter how well meaning they are. I think the thing that bugs me most is that they never mention the name of Jesus in any episodes. The executive producer (who is a Christian woman) said that they wanted to reach a larger audience and that was their reason why. But that being said it does bring home a lot of things that people need to hear. And for that I applaude the show. Besides, Andrew, the angel of death, is a real cutie.

geisha yes, it takes but a cursory glance of the bible to know that God hates evil, you are absolutely right. My point being that it is not the same of hate of a demon itself. Like the kind of hate we can see somewhat expressed through the works of a serial killer, a terorrist, etc. The kind of hate the devil feels towards God. mark you gave a fair ( and by fair I mean a good evenhanded answer, not a so-so answer :)) answer to Oakspear's question. It's something I wonder myself. If an angel falls if they are capable of being forgiven I've been told that they are incapable of being contrite as well. That satan could never worship God, he wants to BE God. Then I wonder about the other fallen angels and if any of them knows that they have screwed up big time and are sorry they followed the wrong guy. I know this sounds stupid, but you would think that if satan knows how the bible says it's going to end for him, that he would try to screw things up by being nice to everyone at the end. LOL! I'm not really joking though, I'm serious. I was told by somebody that maybe he can't help himself. Or perhaps he really thinks he has a chance of winning? Sigh.

Trust and obey, I am a little confused on the logos and rhema. I think if I have a better understanding of that I might understand what you are saying better. I've heard other preacher's teach (Joyce Meyer, notably) that love is really not a feeling per say, however I know I do feel love, for my mother, my dog even! But I can kind of grasp what you are saying, I just need a better understanding on the logos and rhema. mark and geisha you both raise more questions than answers for me now, LOL! The scripture presented is something I am reading in my own versions of the bible. This is going to take some time. Jeff you are right about Michael the archangel, how he even won't rebuke the devil himself, but use the Lord's name instead I believe? I really appreciate the answers and input here, it's just going to take me a bit to go through all the scripture and try to get some sort of a conclusion, if there is one at all.

Exellent points, geisha. But there has to be different meanings to the word "hate" Pure hate comes from the devil. I don't think a human can possibly comprehend that kind of hate, unless they were possessed. The way that God "hates" things has got to be different than what the devil IS.

Don't you think that an angel of God can feel sorrow though?

By the way, Although I don't believe God can hate like the devil, I do believe that God can, and does feel utter contempt for people at times,(or perhaps just for the things they do?) and for the devil and his army. I say this from my own personal experience. Hate is too strong a word to use for certain people and the way I have felt about them, and I know I could never feel the pure hate of the devil. I've certainly seen a few people pass in my life that I thought the world was a better place without, and couldn't muster any tears for them. But I've also felt utter contempt, which is far from hate, but it is a intense dislike, and lack of respect. Just throwing that out there. Now that this thread has got me thinking. Well now I'm comparing how I feel to how I think God should feel and that isn't right either. Sigh. *edited because I don't know how to work the edit feature.

Mark: very much appreciated and very very much worth reading several times over, and getting scripture out. Thanks a bunch. :) *edited because I can't spell...again.

Once again. I am making it quite clear what satan I am talking about. I'd really like to keep this on track. Thanks. :)

Wonderful scripture, geisha: I didn't even know really, what apologetics meant, though I've heard the term a hundred times, and I looked on Amazon and saw the bible you are talking about. Thank you for the scripture and your answer. :)

Blessings WW! Love to hear what you have to say, as usual. :)

Okay, waysider. thanks for coming back and clearing things up. :) I am reading the link you provided, and I'm like, damn, this philosophy sounds awfuly familiar, and then I look up the author, Duncan Heaster, and he's a christidelphian! The reason I put and exclamation point at the end of that is because about 3 blocks away from me stands probably the only Christidelphian "church" in the USA. They usually have home fellowships, like the Way. And the reason I know about them is because I checked them out. I was curious about this "church" that although they don't go out knocking on doors trying to win others to their faith, they like are so closed off from the community, it's just weird.So I checked them out on google, years ago, and was intrigued that they don't believe in the trinity, like the Way, but then their beliefs get even stranger to me. They don't believe in the devil, they think man is the cause of his own sins. Kind of hard to go along with their views, since half the bible is about the devil. Anyway, I'll read more later, I have to go grill my chicken wings.

Ah, this edit thing is driving me crazy. Let me try this again, hold on.

whoops, still figuring out this edit thing

I did not think this would be necessary to say in the doctrinal section, but I would greatly appreciate NO flippant remarks. This is why I posted this question here and not in the Open forum. This question is really bugging me, I know we have some great minds on GS, who are very thoughtful and know God's Word, and it's disappointing to get blessed to see somebody took the time to respond only to find a remark that makes it sound like I'm a dope for reaching for an answer in a section that is supposed to be for doctrinal issues. Please have some respect. I'm asking this question seriously. Wheather or not somebody else believes in God is their personal thing and not what this question is about. cman: I thought in Jerimiah, that verse is talking about mans inability to change without God. And I know the lion and the lamb thing, but that doesn't mean to me that satan is included in that. The Word suggests just the opposite. That he is damned. Oh gee, I don't know. This is frustrating me! :)

I was watching an episode of Touched by an Angel this week, and in this particular episode, satan came to a small town disguised as a white supremacist to destroy the town with hate, fear and division. At the end, when confronted by the angels, Tess (Della Reese) said to the devil (satan himself) that God loves him too. This took me aback that she would say this, and I looked up on the internet to see what people thought about this. I was quite surprised to see how many people are saying that yes, indeed God loves the devil. He doesn't love his evil ways, but God does yes indeedie love satan himself. Some even went as far as to say that we should love satan too! They usually use the verse of loving our enimies, forgiving those who sinned against us, blah blah blah. I just cannot quite swallow this line of thinking. I know God loved Lucifer, but satan is more than just a being of evil ways, satan IS evil. Just as God is Love. I think the idea of loving satan can be very dangerous, to the point of being passive towards evil. I don't even think that satan or his minions (sp?) can be forgiven, in the impossible event that he would ask for it. I mean, I think his future is pretty well laid out in the bible, isn't it? Somebody once told me that God mourns satan. I don't know if that is in the bible or not though. I would really like to know if there is something in the bible that relates to this question. I don't know what is bugging me more, the idea that I'm suppose to love satan, or that God might love him or what.

George what a great idea! :)

Tired of friends and co-workers asking you simple things that could be googled easily? After all...Give a man a google answer, he's satisfied for a day. Teach a man how to google...well...you know the rest. Let's say your friend wants to know...What is greasespotcafe? Here is the link you would share Let me google that for you Hat's off to lmgtfo.com (let me google that for you.com)

WW I don't know what to say. I was without power for over 24 hours which is why it took me so long to finally read and re-read your post. But you hit on some things that are almost to close to home for me. Thank you for such a well thought out reply. I'm actually going to re-read it again, because I'm sure I'm missing some things. but I think you are right, in The Way, (for me it was more of an offshoot group) I think we have become very sensitive to anything thath as to do with controlling our minds. I mentioned this to my electrician friend, who I just saw this morning. I told him about this thread and how varied the responses were, (though I haven't read all of them) and how some people really were concerned that this article, or train of thought had to do more with mind control. He sort of shook his head and said "but you HAVE to control your thoughts." It's not that we want others to control them, but yes we do have to learn to do it. And yes, it is a life long process. Thank you for pointing that out. Oh, I need to read some more of these posts. but I wanted to jump in here and thank you, as others who have responded. It is helping me a great deal.