RottieGrrrl

Thanks for the warning Kit. I read some of the reviews, and while people think it's an excellent movie, it did sadden people as well because of what you are saying. Since it's on Amazon video, I can just fast-forward the scenes that are too disturbing to me.

OH THANK YOU WAYSIDER!!!! I did not see this until now!

I have to add to this and say that this overboard non-nonsensical tedious attention to detail reminds me of my first real job I had when I was 16 years old. I had been making good money baby-sitting, but at 16 I wanted to enter the "real" world of working, and not being a baby sitter. So I got a job at the local Brown's chicken. Well...my BOSS, who was 18 years old and a senior at the high school I attended, really lorded it over me. She made me clean the toilet bowl for an HOUR each night. She would keep coming back saying, you missed that, you missed that, etc. After only TWO nights of this. I had enough. I was making twice as much babysitting for crying out loud, lol. To this day, I really resent it when you try to do a good job for somebody or do something really nice for somebody and they don't appreciate it, they just want MORE. I really try to watch that in myself, as I'm sure I've been guilty of that over the years as well.

newlife: You absolutely made me belly laugh out loud. I guess that would be BLOL!!!! :P WordWolf. OKAY!! Thank you for that explanation. NOW I got it!!! Ingenious.

OH MY GOSH KIT! I belong to Amazon Prime and I actually can watch that movie for FREE!!!!! I will watch it this weekend, it looks GREAT!

WordWolf. That was actually one of the posts I was trying to dissect when I was trying to figure out how to string chairs, lol. I still didn't get it! waysider. That makes sense, but I SWEAR, I spent a wasteful amount of time trying to search the internet to see if anybody did this at all, and I could not find nadda about it! johniam: OKAY, now I can see where the mentality is coming from. I for the life of me couldn't understand the detail given to "stringing chairs." But gee whiz, I mean, I know about the Holy Tabernacle, a little about it anyway, and that was DIFFERENT, you know? lol. That's like the detail that went into building the ark. I don't know about those two Kings you mentioned, so I'm going to have to read about that. But all that attention given to chairs for a meeting? Sheesh! What legalistic nitpicking! krys: You gave me an EXCELLENT mind picture of that! Okay, so it was done from front to back. Gottcha. And some of the Corps got bent out of shape if non-corps did it? Holy Moses on a mountain. I have no words for that. Well...I do, but they are not very nice. Twinky I don't even know what chairs with hoops in their feet are, lol. You gave me another internet search in my down time. I SWEAR though, like I said, I googled this in all sorts of different keywords and I could find NOTHING about lining chairs up string or no string, lasers or what have you. But it can't be particular to the Way, like waysider said, the MUST have gotten the idea from somewhere. but thanks for the responses! Geez. Just gives me another inside look into the legalism there.

Yes it does, I still am intrigued by how they did it though. And I find it interesting that I cannot find one instance of anyone in the internet world of anybody else doing this. I'm wondering where they got the concept for this. The physical part anyway. The spiritual part is nonsense. What good little Pharisees they would make. Sheesh! Thank you Steve!

I've wanted to ask for years. I thought it was some figure of speech. It seems there are threads upon threads and posts upon posts over the years of "stringing chairs." I even googled it and I got results on weaving and restringing string chairs and I swear even GOOGLE HAS NEVER HEARD OF IT! If somebody does not tell me what this is I will go crazy. Is there a crazy smiley here? Okay this one will do. Thank you!

Job 12:7 "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; This stuff is incredible. Seeing stuff like this reminds me of all the attention and detail God has given to every aspect of His creation. Anybody ever see the film God of Wonders? It's on Netflix. Thanks Kit, this made my morning. It also parallels one of my favorite quotes in the bible. Romans 1:20 For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.

Hi exie!! I will, I just emailed you with the story and a hello. (I forget how to do a private topic) I know I was thinking about you too. I miss your ha ha ha ha ha ha ha stuff. :lol:/> Okay I'll get out now please excuse me. This is an interesting thread and I don't mean to disrupt it!

These are very interesting revelations. In some cases I do believe that some people (the father of this guy that got in trouble for instance)are not so rigid in Wierwille's belief, but just have to much of a comfort zone built up there. I know he didn't go along with certain things they did, like paying 25,000 bucks for Geers class, but when I asked him why he didn't leave, he told me he needed those people. I am guessing that partly because so much of his life and family has been devoted to this "way culture" and group, where else would he go? I don't know. I think it would have been better had he gone to some other church. Let his kids get an idea of REAL outreach and REAL ministries. Not an endless parade of classes and the only "outreach" their "ministry" does trying to get 3 new people so they can run another class. But yeah, you described the offshooters pretty well. I still shake my head at their beliefs, when all it takes is a cursory glance at the bible to refute them. ie: when I left they were still teaching that God WAS NOT responsible for the flood, the devil was, and the angel of death (Passover) was really a devil spirit.. Don't talk to Jesus that could prove to be fatal...I wonder if they still teach that Mary was not a virgin when she gave birth to Christ? But, again, I digress (as Sophia used to say on golden girls) :offtopic:/>/>

Wow Twinky, your post reminded me of a couple of memories. Sigh. I remember when I was first taking PFAL when I was, what 17 or 18 years old. One of the guys in our local fellowship popped in at the beginning, before the class started, and the woman who was "under-shepherding" me was mad at him because he was going out of state to visit his mother, because his father had just died. She told me he should stick around and be with his brothers and sisters HERE. I was so confused by that. Hardly anybody went up to console the guy. I wanted to but felt it was wrong. What an example! Not so long after that, my "twig" leader, a young lady, told me that she doesn't believe there should be any social security for old people because everybody should plan and save for their retirement. That troubled me too, but I accepted it as gospel and repeated it to my dad. So my Unchristian, mean dad said to me, "Sombody has GOT to be telling you these things because I KNOW you and I KNOW you are not that cold hearted." Wow, that stopped me in my tracks. Skip ahead to around 1997 or so when I was attending a local fellowship from a local offshoot. Some how we got around to talking about plane crashes (there may have been one in the news) and I mentioned that’s why I don’t like flying. Well boy o boy I got jumped on for that. They ALL told me all I had to do was take out my bible and start reading. I just stared at them in stunned disbelief. What were these people, freaking ZOMBIES? Like they would really do that. A year later, the “leader” of that fellowship told me that she had been to Scottland, and they learned things about “fear” In other words it’s okay to be afraid if you are in a plane that’s crashing. Wow. She had to go to Scotland to learn that? I’m just shaking my head it took me so long to wake up, but in a way it was a good experience. I really have my BS antennas up on the occasion I do attend a real church now. But I gotta tell you, in a REAL church I don’t hear half as much BS as I do in the wayfer offshoots. Oh, by the way, on the Jesus wedding thing, I heard some TV preacher say he thinks it was one of the apostles wedding. He pointed out how he came to that conclusion, but I forget. But he didn't choose the apostles til later right? Okay, now I'm confused and getting Sorry!

Hmmm, so many good observations here, and yes, I would agree it's LARGELY futile, but they get enough people to stick around to support their small little cliquish offshoots. I still remember back in 1991 or 1992 when I first attended the local offshoot, after being out of the mix since 1981. I remember going to this guys house and a whole string of kids coming out of the house, about 8 of them, all in line, leaving, like little zombies. They had been at a sleepover. I said hello to them and a couple of them just threw me blank stares and trudged on. I mean, that was WEIRD. So weird I still shudder at that mental image to this day. I was going to say that regarding waysiders comment, that suppressing ones emotions is possible until real life hits them in the face. Case in point one of the longtime local offshooters, actually one hell of a nice guy, his son is in county jail on first degree murder charges after he went on a senseless stabbing frenzy in a local dance bar a couple of years ago. It hasn't gone to trial yet, but it will be high profile when it does. His dad is paying for a decent defense attorney (there goes his retirement fund) and his son's defense attorney has been quoted as saying, "This is a guy who was raised in church, and goes to church 3 times a week and teaches a youth ministry) okay... It's not exactly a church, and the "youth" ministry is just a bunch of wayfer kids, but I digress.. I saw all the "bigshots" from that local fellowship walking out of the courtroom on TV Sunday morning on the news,and I'm really wondering if this HUGE HORRIBLE tragedy is going to wake them up or affect them at all. I can't imagine what his defense will be. But I'm really wondering if this is going to crack the pretend world they live in, or if they will just go on in their little bubble.

I'm thinking that maybe about 10 years ago, I was still in semi contact with one guy from the local offshoot that was running Geers class. He normally doesn't confide in their inner goings-on, in that small little group, but I think he was in a weak frustrated moment. He had told me that this little offshoot (which over the years has consisted of about 12 families, give or take a couple) had paid 25K for whatever class Geer was selling at the time. Now keep in mind, this little offshoot runs a class whenever they get a grand total of like, 3 new people. At least that's what it was like when I was going there back in the 90s. All the rest of the "class" were former PFAL grads who went faithfully every night, to fill up the room and make it look good. He was very frustrated by that because he really thought it was a colossal waste of money. What they already had was good enough. (for them, anyway, you know what I mean) Seriously, they were already supporting a "minister" his wife and two kids, for such a small little group, and now they paid 25 K to run a recorded class for people who have sat through PFAL for the last 30 years? There is just no sense of reality with these people, they are just paying up the nose to keep their little comfort zone intact I guess. Very bizarre, but if that's how they want to spend their money, that's up to them.

Just popped in here and saw this thread. Waydale was the beginning of the Exodus from my offshoot. It did so much for me, and I am thankful it was here. At the offshoot I was attending at the time, I was CONVINCED, that I was a total misfit, totally screwed up, that all these people from the offshoot could SIT and Interpret and Prophecy and they were the true called ones of God in the Sky, and I was just screwed. I longed for fellowship with my Lord Jesus. They told me if I tried to talk to Him it "Could prove to be fatal" I will never forget that. And I was convinced they were right. Waydale showed me that this teensie weensie little offshoot, in Naperville, Il. were the ones who were the misfits. NOT me. Not that I did not have my problems, I did, and still do. But once I was bold enough to venture out to other various churches, YEARS LATER...I learned one thing...There are THOUSANDS of people out there JUST LIKE ME!!! I felt that although a church might not be a right fit for me..they were still normal people looking for answers in their lives! And nobody had to "prove themselves" by "Speaking in tongues" and Prophecy. Their were other concerns that "REAL" churches are aware of. At least the healthy ones. I wish I could go back to these people, and tell them, If God hasn't blessed your "ministry" "bible clique...coffee clique.." in 20 odd years, don't you think there might be something WRONG with your little group? I know God doesn't count numbers as far as His Glory, but My God Man! If your old fellowship hasn't grown in over 20 years, you do NOTHING for the community that's allowing you a break on rental space and taxes, your agenda is your great doctrine, which has not held up in the eyes of the Lord, over and over and over again.... When will you wake up? Thanks for letting me vent.

Well, one of these days, I'm going to tell you about an experience I had, which I'm not going to put out in a public forum. Perhaps we can all start a PT with each other. Hey, I want every one to know I so appreciate every response here, but what happened yesterday was my brother called me, and I don't want to get into it all now, but he has been taking taking care of my 93 year old mama for a few months now (he lives in California, I'm in Chicago burbs) and she's got hospice care now, and the hospice guy told him that if anyone is out of state to come visit her like NOW. So I'm still in a daze but I think I"m going to be gone for the next several days so I can spend a couple days with my mama. Just so you know what happens if I disappear for a few days..which I do anyway, lol, but I'm kind of in a daze about this. I thought my mama would always be there for me, you know? Anyway, I just thought I should mention this, God bless and love you all, be back in a few days, this has been so interresting! And Steve yeah, I hear you on the devil spirit/demon thing. I always used to cringe when somebody referred to the being as a demon, because I was taught the "proper" word was devil spirit. Oh I was so Way brained, lol. It wasn't until I started actually reading the bible and saw the word demon being constantly used that I started to realize that their called DEMONS for the most part it seems. I still have to correct my old way brain from time to time it's so ingrained, lol.

Steve Geisha and socks, I just love your replies. A quick note on demon possession though. The Way, as far as I could see, in my opinion, was I believe pretty accurate in how it works. I don't believe it's necessary to possess a person's mind full time, they can fly in and out of a person's mind. It has nothing to do with Holy Spirit. I have Holy Spirit (I hope) and I can sin about 10 times before I get my first cup of coffee in the morning. There are times when my thought life SUCKS. But when people, even Christians, can start opening doors, out of ignorance, arrogance, stupidity, perhaps start fooling around with Ouija boards, giving into their own carnal desires, oh hell, anything where they just keep getting deeper and deeper into something they shouldn't, well.... It's like that story about the frog, I don't know if it's true or not. But supposedly, if you drop a frog in boiling water, he'll jump right out. But if you put a frog in water, and turn it on to boil, he will just sit there and be cooked to death. The point is, I believe the devil possesses the mind, not your soul, and certainly cannot touch your Holy Spirit. However, it is up to us to guard our thoughts. We can't help it if a bad thought comes to us, but we don't have to let it nest. I remember Ted Bundy saying that when he got the urge to kill, it was like something dark and alien entered him, and he couldn't help himself. He was subjected to devil possession at the devils will. I'm not sure what led him to that, but it sure as hell didn't come out of the blue. It's not like he was some happy go lucky guy one moment, and turned into a serial killer the next. HE did SOMETHING to open the doors to that. I don't know if it was violent porn he masturbated too as a child, or what kind of psycological problems he had, but something turned him into what he was, and made him a perfect host for some demon. I am sorry, I appreciate ALL your responses, and am going back to reading them all. It's just taking me awhile, and I got off on another tangent. :)

All I can say is Amen to that socks. I should print that out for the next time I hear somebody say that "God is in control of everything" Because I really don't think they have thought that through. satan, wants to control everything, beginning with our minds. That's another subject for another time. The idea that Christians cannot get possessed. I hear that a lot. I don't think that people think of the difference between Holy Spirit, which the devil cannot touch, and peoples minds, which if Christians can sin, they certainly can fall to the point where they can open the doors to possession....but I digress again, lol. ;) I'm sorry. I didn't mean to go off on another tangent, but it does bring up some other interesting questions, and as I'm reading the bible, I'm reading about God's chosen people, who made some really BAD choices! Especially in Hebrews Hall of Faith. lol. I mean, one of Jesus's own ancestors was a lady of the evening. And Sampson? Oh my gosh. His big glorious moment was also his last! Anyway, I'm getting OT. Sorry!

Thank you WW. Very well thought out answer, especially to the idea that satan, the serpent, took God by surprise, which sounds sort of like Wommack is suggesting. That's nonsense. I sort of lean towards the idea that God does not micromanage every facet of our lives...I've actually had one lady in a church group (non-way) tell me that God knows even what color of socks I'm going to wear tomorrow. I don't completely agree (thought I don't know for sure) that He knows every single thing that is going to happen, but I read once in some teaching that it's more comparable to Bobby Fisher, the chess king. God has so many moves up His sleeve that no matter what you throw at Him, He's going to have a plan. Lots to think about, appreciate the responses.

Hmmm, after digesting this, I am sort of leaning towards the fact that God allowed satan to be in the garden of Eden. I watch Andrew Wommack, and I really enjoy the guy, but on certain things I believe he is off. He believes that satan was actually an angel put there to help Adam and Eve, and then turned out to deceive both God and man when he had the chance. I know he has his own interpretations to support that belief, but like I said, as much as I really think he's on top of certain things, I think he's way off on that one. Reading the responses has been enlightening and interesting. I guess I will just have to ponder this some more and search the scriptures. If God wants to enlighten me further, that's up to Him I suppose. Sigh. But The responses most of you have given me have helped tremendously. :)

AWESOME observation. And that thing about the devil not wanting forgiveness, perhaps he can't be forgiven I don't know, but that is just the ultimate of Pride and Arrogance. You can see that in certain people too. Arrogant to the end. Wasn't Jezebel like that? lol. Well I'm glad you didn't delete your comments! I enjoyed them! :) AMEN geisha, and sadly that is what the offshoots are still doing. Very well said. And idolizing things like speaking in tongues and their brand of prophecy, when Jesus is crying for them to get to know the WORD, and walk in love and care for people. Those offshoots have so many problems you can't even imagine. But....I digress. Another subject for another time. You have a good point about Adam. And yeah you are right about everything you said about the Weirwille/PFAL/Way/offshoot brand of believing. Took me many, many years to get corrected on that, and I'm STILL not there yet. It's HIS will be done, NOT mine. I don't know how they could (and other churches as well) become so messed up on that when the bible is FULL of people not getting their own way, or when they do it their own way, they suffer the consequences. God can clean up the mess, but by no means is He the magic genie in the sky who grants you wishes. Amen.

Socks, thank you so much for that answer. Because that really has shed some interesting new light for me!! I always thought that "god of this world" mean satan was in control of it, but what you says makes total sense. Although I have to say, I sort of cringe when I go to church (I go to different ones cause I'm still getting my feet wet about finding the "right" one for me) and I hear the people say that God is in control of everything, because I just don't know that in this world He is yet. We are still fighting a battle, but, that's another subject. But I really like what you said, about being the head guy of sin and disobedience, and it's a bit like a rabbit trick. Interesting! Thank you! :) Thank you geisha. That really is something to ponder. the whole, "God allowed it" thing. You may have a point there. That's another thing I tend to hear when I go to church, God can allow evil to happen. They seem to take that from the book of Job, and though I close my ears to that, perhaps you have a point there about imposing our own moral standards on a Righteous God. Sheesh. So much to learn, so little time in this life. No wonder we have to take so many things of faith. :( :)

WOW! Amen WW! And Thank you for that. I will continue reading the responses now, lol. :)

Got your email WW, thanks! Waysider I know, but seeing as the entire fall of mankind was because of this, It's a burning question I have in my heart. I know that not every question we have is going to be answered to our satisfaction, but I'd like to have at least a clue on certain things. :)/> And I still don't even know how to edit properly either it seems.