HCW

Johnny, I never saw Rochelle after her bandages were removed from her head. From what I recall the cuts could have been mostly hidden by her hair. You see she had very thick, beautiful I might add, hair. Actually though, the way she was treated, being thrown out of the Corps as she was, then the way she was treated immediately after, was enough to cause even the most stable person to become suicidal. Her life's dream was dashed. The 11th Corps, for as much as anyone may (with good reason)hate TWI or the WC, was a special group of people. We bonded and became a "family," which Rochelle really longed for. Our Way Productions bands were really decent, TWI produced an album by "Called Out" titled "We're in This Thing Together" from a song of the same name that became our theme song for our Corps. It was so very important to Rochelle to graduate with us. I'm sure JAL was just as callous w/her in telling, not asking, not accepting or considering her feedback about her leaving the Corps, as he was with me. Devastating. JAL didn't ask me, he TOLD me in no uncertain terms, "You're going. Just tell us where you are gonn go." Just the way he notified people was in itself devastating. Little to no warning, "go see John - you're gone. It had become like the "Green Mile" or "Dead Man Walking" whenever anyone was handed a note by a staffer in class. If the note was from JAL, and they ALWAYS were, You were gone. If your name was called during the announcements to go meet w/JAL, you were gone. Some would just disappear. We figured they ran into John in the hallway or coming across campus. Peole didn't even want to talk to him at lunch, he might say, "You're gone." outta the clear blue sky. So. Being devastated by being forced to leave in a devastating way.... Add to that the BS (devastating, YOU are NOT ready...) reasoning for being kicked out... if any of us actually agreed with the reasoning we'd have left on our own. So she lost that "family." She lost her friend, Kevin, whom she liked, probably beyond the friendship level. Driving accross country I'm sure the words to our theme song replayed in her head. I don't remember the whole song but here's part of it... "Once an outsider, always an outsider, they said, and you believed them,... No longer an outsider, you're a super winner, Forever an insider.... (Chorus:)--> We're in this thing together, We're in it for keeps, We're in this thing together, With love we're complete. We're in this thing together, We're doin' it forever, With love, we're complete." THEN. When she gets to The Way of Indiana, the LC's basically tell her get out of here we don't care where you go, but you can't stay here. She headed out driving mile after mile, foot after foot second after agonizing second ALONE, trying to get to her big brother. She was exhausted, stopped to rest, ALONE after having left her palce of belonging, a group whose very them song in life was "We're in this thing together, we're doin' it forever, with love we're coOOM-plete." Her head was forever changed, she left a big piece of herself out in Tinnie that day of the crash. She was never the same after that piece of aluminum siding sheared part of her scalp off. She was in pain. I would not be surprised if she just went into the bathroom to get some water to take a pill & looked in the mirror at herself. Tired alone, rejected... and she had those pills. She may have thought about how long the drive, alone was from Columbus to Connecticutt, and just couldn't bear to drive it, ALONE. Why should she? If she wasn't welcome in the 11th, she wasn't welcomed by the Limb/Region Coordinator of the HQ region. Where would she be welcome? with her brother? Maybe but he was so far away... That damn song in her head. No. We're NOT together, I'm not COMplete, I'm alone. Why go on - at - ALL. The accident/injuries weakend her, mentally. She never should have been alone like that. What is MORE lonely than mile after mile after mile on the road by yourself? That's my take on it.

Actually A la, so am I. I was never given a reason, just called into Howard Allen's office & he told me that such and such a day would be my last day on staff. He said it would do no good to argue because it had already been decided, it didn't matter what I said, they weren't gonna change the decision. I was pretty hacked off and really didn't care what their reasoning was; they had no good reason. I was clear they just didn't want me around. They gave me $1,000 in severence, gave my wife nothing, never even informed her she was fired. She wasn't working anyway becase she had decided to take them at their word on the maternity leave policy, which said that mothers could come back to work when they were ready, no specific time frame. They were paid full salary on maternity leave because they figures couple's salaries as one because the family needed what both were paid to cover their needs. The wife was PO'ed at Don W. she said he had slipped her the tongue and kissed her "way too wetly" ... "That wasn't no greet the brethren with a 'holy kiss." she said, "He was hittin' on me!" I couldn't GET her to come back to work, didn't really try. It was one of those impossible to prove things. She said she wasn't ready to go back to work, I said, "Cool." Jasmine was about 21 months old when I got the boot. Besides. They may have thought I had "gotten over" on them concerning my salary. I had asked for and received an increase in each of the two prior years. Then part of the POP fallout was that we staff all got a 15% accross the board pay increase. My wife not working, in essence, amounted to a 100% pay increase for me... they weren't getting any production from the $$ allocated to her. I didn't have any problem with the whole thing. First of all I had been paid significantly less than half what a senior designer in a comparable design studio was getting. They wanted me to produce work that was professionally on par with, or better, than what "the world" produced, yet pay me a fraction of what "the world" paid. I felt it was hypocracy on their part. "God meets our CORPORATE needs as well as personal, right?" was part of my argument. As a historian of the ministry I knew precisely why the "need based" salary policy was adopted. Policy was that we could ask for raises based on our increasing needs at certain intervals, I honestly assessed my new needs when I, overnight on my wedding day changed from a single guy to husband and father. Got the raise. We had another baby (Jaz), asked for & got another raise. Then I got the additional 15%. They would give the raise then split it over the two paychecks. I always felt that was shady finances, didn't really know. It sorta benefited me, because I essentially had recieved about a 140% raise in a little over two years. The total amount was "close enough" that I didn't feel like a fool for working for peanuts. Figuring it that way "I" was making about $28,000/yr at TWI in 1987. That was a decent living in the area at the time. When I got the raise before the 15% Eric K. told me I was among the highest paid staffers "in my category. I said, "Cool." Maybe that had something to do with it. Whenever folks would talk about not being paid enough, I'd pump 'em up and encourage them to "Do what I did..." without telling how much I was making, that would be uncool. Maybe THAT had something to do with it?

Just wondering Waterbuffalo. You're right it shouldn't make any difference. Glad it didn't.

You're welcome exie. I'm having an experience behind this whole ting that I don't have words to describe. (Snuffles, drop, plop [the sound of tears falling] is the best explanation I could think of.)

Ok Belle, I probably did do that, what you said.

washingtonWeather; I'm really interested in seeing the police report. Accident date was 19 October, 1982.

Geeze... that was long. long life I guess. Honestly. I don't remember speaking to VPW about it at all. I was shipped off to the mountains, then to the farm, then didn't get bak to HQ until spring. The times I saw him & ate meals w/him were in public at the head table, at whatever campus. Point taken exie.... I didn't speak much about it to anyone actually. Maybe a couple of people all year. I really couldn't I spoke once during a parents weekend about the LEAD session, but never about the accident. Imagine me reading the last half of page one of this thread at LUNCH? I forgot to add. my LEAD injuries don't deter me much from doing much however I DO have to "manage" my body. Eg. I have to prop my head just right on a pillow everynight to sleep or my neck will stiffen and the pain will wake me. I have to manage my back to make sure stressful days don't cause me to bear down and tighten it up. I keep it loose. Its pretty much a constant thing, all the time as necessary.

Actually waterbuffalo, I stared a response to you that same day, thought I sent it. It must have been flushed away in a reboot. I always have several windows open, as I'm working from home, checking three email accounts, answering the phone, making calls & dealing w/the boya during the course of the day. Sorry. Question. Could it be the fact that I'm a WC Grad and ex HQ staff that colored the way you think I might think of you? If so. Please don't allow anything to cause you to think I mat be ignoring you. It is not in my personality to ignore people, especially those who approach me honestly in a positive manner; as you have. I actually appreciate you & the fact that you went out of you way to introduce yourself. That being said. For anyone who'd like to get to know me: Briefly I was born outide Pittsburgh, Pa. That's where I got involved w/TWI at age 15 in early 1975, as a Jr in HS. I was an honor student, a two sport varsity letterman (football & wrestling) at a large western PA, High School. By my Sr. year I was the most influential student (of 1500 grades 10-12) in the school, also involved. leading in student government, winning "ever award under the sun, " etc. My SAT scores placed me among the elite students in the country. I was among the brightest, toughest and best the country had to offer at my age. My best friend, who I'd known as a brother from childhood got involved w/TWI, unbeknownst to me and told me, "You gotta take this Bible class." (PFAL). I said , "Oh no I don't. You need to NOT take it. It costs $85.00! Oh hell no. I'm not giving them a penny." I got involved w.TWI to get my best friend out way back in 1975. I went to twig to prove they didn't know what they were talking about. The TC's dad had a tape library of every SNS tape there was, even the old reel to reel ones. I listened to them ALL about 5 or six at a time. I bought into ONE thing that VPW said. "The Way Ministry is primarily a Biblical, Research, Teaching and Fellowship ministry. We don't have the market cornered on Bible research, we don't know it all. Whenever our continued research unearths truths that show us where we are wrong, we will immediately change our thinking according to God's Word. It's the Word, peo-ple; its the Word. I have no friends when it comes to God's Word." I could get with that. In all that tape listening, I heard things I felt were not right. Some of the "research" didn't sit well w/ me. So I studied the Bible on my own thinking that these people really wanted to know live and fellowship around the truth. All I've ever wanted, concerning the Bible, is to know what is says, to know it. I agreed to take PFAL on Oct '75 but refused to go to ROA '75 (the rain Rock) because I didn't trust these people enough to travel to another state with them. I did go to ROA '76 in Sidney and was thoroughly disappointed. The fairgrounds smelled like ANIMALS! There was MUD - - on my SHOES! ... The people were nice so I stuck it out. I hung out mostly w/folks from my twig, cause I really didn't buy into all of the I love you's and God Bless you's. I was like, "...don't kiss me, I don't know WHERE your mouth has been..." Nice firm handshake will suffice, thank you. Two things there impressed me there @ ROA '76. Gerald Wren's teaching about Jesus Christ and a play they did about in the dinner theatre about the last days of Jesus' life. They depicted Jesus' torture, theatrically in such a vivid way. They used strobe lighting, choreography, music and voice talent as they read from the bible what was happening to Jesus. They did this really cool stage trick where they threw the robe over the Jesus actor, had roman guards "bum-rush" him and in the confusion the smuggled in another actor with his head in make-up to look like he had been beaten to a bloody pulp, so that you "could not even tell he was a man." The words I had read so many time on the page were living right there in front of my eyes. I decided then and there standing in the back of that tent, alone, disliking the smell of the straw that covered the floor & bales they had for some seating that I wanted to dedicate my life & talents to serve the Lord Jesus -who went through al of that - -for me. I felt I had found an outlet, a ministry where I could do that; TWI. I brought that same, "Oh yeah, prove it to me, here's what the Bible says about that attitude" into the WOW program, aprentice corps on staff, then through the WC and back to staff. All the while thinking that we would grow as a family and change our thinking according to God's Word ministry. Needless to say to most of you, you know that kind of attitude brought an endless amount of fighting, bickering and the like. I did have the respect of a good bit of people and respected SOME of the people I'd encountered in the years in the ministry. I never worshipped VPW, Craig struck me as a wannabe with only a moderate level of talent & ability. I had seen "superstars." I knew what family was, having grown up in an imperfect but extremely loving family. My parents weren't married as I grew up but my Dad always lived at most a few blocks away from us. When Mom moved us two blocks up the stree to where the neighborhood was better, my Dad moved too, right around the corner. I wasn't lacking in stuff like that. In fact, my Mom didn't like my involvement w/ TWI. I told her how I was checking it out and no matter how deeply involved I got in it, "The first time I find out for sure, for myself, that its really bad, I'll walk." was my promise to my Mom." The things I knew of that weren't right, I fought to change them. "I know what Dr. said." I'd tell people - - then quote the proper scripture about the situation. In the earlier days, late 70's most people I butted heads with would submit to the Bible that was spoken. The last two years of the WC were a whilrwind. This LEAD accident and my injuries defined my life that last year in residence and to a gradually lessening degree each year thereafter. The whirlwind deposited me back on Staff as a Corps Grad. People told me the 11th was SOO great, lots would say we were their favorite group. (I think WE, the 11th started those rumors --> Shhhhh.... don't tell anybody) It was different, colder, more mechanical. The staff had grown from a few hundred in '78 to "over 800 Way International Staff members, serving in more than 80 distinct, separate ministries." So what? Who cares about numbers like that? Was my position. In the mid 80's, it became more and more difficult to get anything done as more & more time was spent fighting w/Nazi's than ever. As VPW wound down & LCM ascended the ministry changed more and more. LCM pushed HIS "Athetes of the Spirit" BS right into the center of the ministry. So much fighting. Like, "NO, that's NOT what VPW said, I was there when he said, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH." That's NOT what the WORD says! You can't treat people that way! That's just stupid. You REALLY think I should leave my children at home & make their MOM care for them while I come listen to a TAPE of a meeting I sat theough LIVE!!!!???? Wouldn't it be BEST for my FAMILY if the wife & children SAW the HEAD of their household at home, WITH them STUDYING, to show himself approved un to GOD a workman.... It was time for me to go. It was time for me to honor my promise to my Mom. I was torn though because if I/WE who had been there, who knew the "heart" (we will grow and change...) leave this thing will go to hell in a handbasket! One more year, if things don't get better, I'm done. I'd tell myself. I was still rehabbing my LEAD injury also. If I left staff they would certainly cut me off, in terms of continuing to foot the bill. Even though I had taken a settle ment I was told that as long as I needed treatment TWI would make sure I got it. I stayed there probably two years after it was clear that TWI was never gonn be the ministry I thought it was comitted to. They canned me in '88. Howard Allen said to me during my "exit interview," "You're a talented guy... you should have no trouble finding a job. Why don't you go check out the "Evening Liar" they could probably use a guy with your skills." He offered his hand. I looked at it, burned a look right through Earl Burton's forehead, pivoted and "WALKED." That was a Tuesday or Wed., I was told I could work through the end of the pay period on Friday. I packed up my desk & left. People in the dept were shocked when I told them I was fired. They asked why, I said "Ask Howard Allen." HQ was buzzing with early arrivals for corps week/ROA. There was stuff I had on my plate to coordinate for ROA. As I was leaving with my last box the Dept coordinator/trustee cabinet member said, "will we see you tomorrow?" I wheeled & burned a tatoo of a look into his forhead as well and said, softly, "Nope." "Whatta they gonna do? FIRE me????" I haven't been back in the OSC since. I had a job running the Art Dept at the Evening LEADER in a week, making more money (and potentially even more) than TWI paid my wife & I COMBINED. They gave my wife no severence at all. Paid me through the end of the pay period two days and gave me $1,000 for severence (less than one pay period's $1,200). I had "gotten over" on them (I'm thinking they felt) financially. I had just asked for & received a substantial salary increase just prior to the BOT, at CG's urging a mandated 15% across the board pay increase. TWI had a policy then where new Mom's could have maternity leave "as long as they needed" at full salary. My wife at the time told me she was mad at Dean Don for "slipping her the tongue, kissing her too wetly" to be a saintly, "holy kiss." She said, "I aint NEVER going back to work. I'mm gonna stay home & raise my kids. Jasmine was under two at the time. That "BASTARD!" I just said, "Cool. No sweat off my back. Policy is policy...." After leaving TWI the STRESS LEVEL IN MY ENTIRE LIFE went down to next to nothing. I didn't realize at the time how much THEIR thinking had taken over my life, even though I was not buying into the crap, fighting against the crap had consumed WAY too much of my life than ANY J-O-B deserves of anybody. It was SO clearly evident, especially when one sees that if you have a job that requires 60 - 80 hours/wk they compensate your lack of personal time with money. It was at the door of the Evening Leader that I told Shroyer not to waste a stamp sending me the "choose sides" letter. "No. I will NOT take a Corps assignment from Craig. I believe GOD wants me right here where I am. If you guys want to assign me as "Corps Grad New Knoxville" you have my permission to do that. Otherwise, No forget it. I'm not moving anywhere, my CHILDREN live here. I have a life here that is FINE for ME right now." I told him that IF the trustees were standing with GOD, and Craig was standing with GOD, we were ALREADY standing together... "Uhh No. I'm not signing anything, thank you." (that pesky dignity thing again ;)--> Then I told hime HE could walk, "You're welcome to LEAVE anytime now, I have to get back to work." I guess I'm, M&A and DFAC . They must have saved the stamps, never got the letters. Sometime around '97 - '98 I got a letter from TWI's attorney's telling me to "cease and desist from displaying artwork I had created (oh yes I DID say 'create") while on staff. I had done a little "careers" presentation for my daughter's second grade class @ New Knoxville School. Some Wafer kid ran home & told his staff parents, "Guess what Jasmine's Dad showed us at shcool today?" Staff Nazi's told Howard Allen I had showed someof my TWI work as part of my portfolio. HA sicked this attorney pit bulls on me. The sent a long letter on their legal firm letterhead telling me to cease & desist showing it because the art belonged to TWI. Of course a threat of 'further legal action' was included. I got out MY letterhead, wrote the attorneys back & said that according to the provisions of the copy right act of such & such year, the fact that TWI did NOT do this that & the other thing that are part of the 28 item list of things the US government requires to determine employee status... I WAS NEVER THEIR EMPLOYEE. I was techincally a SELF employed contractor. As such, according to COPYRIGHT LAW, the USAGE RIGHTS for EVERY piece of work I performed during my ENTIRE tenure there and at ALL of their campus locations, events and other miscellaneous stuff around the WORLD, belong to ME. Seeing as my work was quite prolific and their subsequent use beyond the initial usage was pervasive TWI actually owes ME MONEY for using MY works without MY continued, specific permission. If you would simply have Howard Allen advise the Way finance dept to immediately cut me a check for (hmmm...supply the pinky to the lip) say, ten THOOOUSand DOOOLLars. I'd be happy not to take "further legal action" against TWI for copyright infringement and HIS FIRM for harrassment. The attorney wrote me back. He was stupid enough to tell me he was not a copyright attorney but he consulted with one who said my work was "work for Hire" and therfore copyrights belonged to TWI. Still Cease & desist. I wrote HIM back & said neither he nor his fictional friend knew jack about copyright law, or they were just trying to harass me with threats, etc. I reminded him that his FIRST letter said that my illeged infringement occurred while I was displaying the works at a SCHOOL to STUDENTS, one of which was my daughter. Had he known jack Sh%t about copright law he and his .... poor copyright attorney friend would know that ALL copyrights works are subject to the FAIR USE provision of the law which allows unprohibited use in an EDUCATION setting, which last I knew SECOND grade at a SCHOOL was EDUCATION!!!! I went on to tell him how this sort of harrasment was par for the course from TWI and suggested he drop them as a client before I and others sue HIM for allowng his firm to be used as a club to beat TWI's ex members. I don't know if he dropped them but the attorneys for twi on the posted suits were different than those who wrote me. God has blessed me though the years. Which have seen both good & bad times. Highlighting it has been my Jasmine's zooming through school where she is now, as a senior at NKHS, the most influential student in her school, she's a THREE sport varsity letter winning athlete (volleyball, cheerleading & track). HER list of achievements eclipses mine. She will be delivering a valedictorian address as #1 in her class and will be a freshman at Yale University this coming fall. My boys are little, second grade (Sean) and kindergarten (Bradley). People say they look like twins. Brad said the other day, "Daaaaaaaddddy? I wawwwnnnt to ggg go to a wealllly good collleeege when I grow up too, Daaddy. Just like Jasmine." Sean's a handfull , I'm trying to convince him to "use your little kid powers for GOOD, and not evil," extremely animated and mischievous, he gets into trouble at school althought he still makes good grades. Sean, Brad & I are studyin martial arts together and should have our first black test by this time next year.... Boys, don't mess with THEIR sitsers. And I just got a phone call from my partner saying we (our Ad Agency) just got the contract to produce the largest Easter event in the city. There. Know me a little better now??? :)--> ;)--> I love quiche, BTW, bacon is my fav.

Yeah dabobbda; It always hacked me off that twi kept so much to ourselves. I wanted to help people, not just OUR people, they weren't OUR people anyways... see why they threw me out ?

Whatever our differences satori, I have to agree with that one. I believe there was ONLY one choice. If one SAYs he's Christian, the only choice is completely immerse the injured party in love & caring. The other choice, the Judas way, is NOT very Christian, now is it?

((((((((ALA!))))))))))) I wasn't mad about that night in the Chatroom! You were only expressing yourself, honestly. It really didn't bother me. I wasn't ignoring you, I just didn't know if it's illegal in New Mexico to transport people in the back of a pickup truck. I would never blacklist anybody. Growing up a poor black kid from "da hood," I've been blacklisted all my life. When one has experienced people changing the side of the street they're walking on or locking their car doo in the mall parking lot because you walk by one gets sensitive to blacklist type of stuff. Sorry you felt that way.

Notice how the suspenders match the red stripe in the socks. I told you, I took extra stuff. I had softsoled running shoes for when we were hangin around camp. Kept my boots for climbing & hiking. I bet had this been during more recent times they would think me to be gay! Just a little style is all. Can't tell you how much it means to me to share these pictures with you. Special thanks to BLUEZEMAN for making his server space available!

This is our twig from LEAD 104. (GRRRRrrrrrrr........) Rochelle is on the far right in the yellow T-shirt. That's me in the hat with the Steelers t-shirt on.

Everybody. This is Rochelle. That's another friend Jim. Jim was fantastic at the scene, a real hero. We were mounting up to go somewhere & I shot this because I thought it showed a bit of both people's personalities.

Thanks ex10.

Also. I don't have answers for everything, nor do I have all the answers.

Snubbed??? Ignored??? Who? When? I've spent a good portion of my life on this thread for more than a week. Please do not read any anger into this post. I'm not angry. I'm just a little dismayed that anyone would feel that I'm ignoring or snubbing them. I think the evidence is there that I've tried to go back into the thread and answer questions that people have asked. There are not enough hours in the day to get to everyone, but I can tell you I've answered every private message I've recieved and ever email that I've received also. I've taken some time also to catch up with old friends that I've know for decades too. If anyone feels ignored or snubbed please, by all means LET ME KNOW. Feel free to let me know exactly how you feel. I really don't bite.

I kicked some WOW's outta my house once. Does that count?

That one got me kicked outta the Way Corps... Dang! Still lookin' for a twig one...

Or when they ask you..."Are you gonna stand with Rev. Martindale & the Tustees?" Say "Craig taught me that if I stand with Jesus and you stand with Jesus, that we're standing together. The trustees stand with Jesus, Right?"

That only helped get me kicked off staff, Thank you.

This is crackin' me UP! At first I though I'd just have to read what you guys said cause I neveer got kicked outta twig. BUT I got one. I GOT one! Wanna hear it? Here it goes... Tell 'em you didn't go to Corps night because it was a tape of a teaching you were in the audience for... you stayed home to study your notes from what you heard live rather than write new ones. Was that funny.......? -->

Steve; Rochelle's head injury, was not disfiguring, as far as I know. Again they kept us separate. It was crazy.

I'm thinking mutual skyrider. The key is coming to your own conclusions based on what you think and what you beleive. When I left TWI I went through everything I think I think. Now that I'm done with that I know what I think. Therefore I can see more clearly what "YOU" think. Again, using the same analogy. Were I part of Jim Jones' group. I think I would have said, "Excuse me, I don't think WE should drink poison, its nasty." (My mommy taught me that.) I'm not drinkin' it. And YOU can't make me. Why? Its NASTY. That introduces the most healthy concept. INDIVIDUAL thinking.

Point taken Steve. I'm not really speaking much to Oldiesman's POV or the relative merits of his position. I don't doubt what you said about satori, rascal, etc. I've seen at least some of what you mentioned. However I thought I was seeing this: As long as the group seemed to agree w satori everything was cool through pg5 when the focus turned back to the story & related issues. There was some talk about individual responsibility... some more shots at Oldie, he fired back the thread flowed ping-ponging a discussion that was to a degree, MUTUALLY unwelcome. Satori agreed in apology. The thread rolled along and turned into a virtual "love fest" thru p9, expressing some thinking, figuring, some fun. Then I posted the following on pg 13: Maybe a little over the top in the drama dept, but hey this is a dramatic story. Satori countered with: "As HE saw it" was fine, in terms of his stating his opinion. Then it seemed to me like he was trying to "school me" on things most obvious to me. On pg 14 he stated more of his opinions. I responded to satori by pointing out things he apparently missed in what I wrote. I admit. It IS a pet peeve of mine when people comment on things and formulate opinions without having read a reading, seen a movie, or when they pull things out of context when they comment. I believe ANY opinion not based on a complete, thorough analysis of the subject is potentially INvalid. It becomes a judgement base on an incomplete, or skewed individual point of view. Therefore it can carry NO wieght in a group setting. As a judgement it therefoe guilty of what Romans 2:1 says, "...for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself..." I ASKED satori... "Can you read?" Then reposted what I'd said... so he could read it. "We drove right off the road, under control, into what we had seen seconds before, to be open countryside. In other words, I was telling satori that; what I thought Kevin actually thought he was doing was driving the truck off the road when the trailer got out of control, he simply didn't see the ravine we crashed into. I had gone into great painstaking detail recounting this most horrible and singly traumatic event of MY life. I felt he had discarded my eye witness, active participant account of the event in favor of his own totally uneducated view of the facts regarding it. He went on about pervasive culture of secrecy, then made statements that were both exaggerated and then unfactual to support HIS opinion. They work, too. he said. Then he made another judgement , this time about me, personally, that I felt was out of line; He then told others "Hopefully lurkers, visitors and newcomers to Greasespot will find the time and inclination to review and reflect upon the resources here" to do what he himself evidently was not doing. He iether didn't read what I had written or ignored it, or dismissed it as unfactual. He went on to write: "The Way Corps was more about conditioning than training, in my opinion." Put 2 + 2 + 2 together. I saw this "HCW: Some of the things you've written indicate you haven't sorted through...The Way Corps Conditioning... enough to uderstand that even though you were there, and saw what you THINK you saw, you really SHOULD have seen what I SEE." 1. I considered Rochelle a friend, though I only knew her through a mutual friend 2. BOT is evil. 3. Their policies are evil. 4. Kevin was a pawn in their evil scheme. 5. You were high-maintenance 6. You don't know what you saw 7. I know what you should have seen in what you saw. 8. You're still too conditioned to see it 9. If you read these books (that I'm not giving you the titles to) that you obviously haven't read (for if you'd have read them they would surely have broken your conditioning) then... 9. You would see what you saw 23 years ago like I see it now, even though I WASN'T there and apparently didn't read what you wrote today. I was offended personally (he did say YOU, to me too) and for the "Lurkers, visitors and newcomers." Satori intentionally slammed me saying, that my not yet shed Way Corps conditioning , TWI baggage blinds me so that I don't know what I saw with my own eyes. Therefore this idea, read a couple of recommended books that will put you in a better position (than you currently are) so that you can judge things like I do "from a more critical, if at first counter-intuitive perspective." Some of US, are getting our first look, so you MAY (because I don't want to offend you by telling you directly) need to step back a bit more than you have yet, before you can "join us 'Luke' come over to the dark side." Heavy breathing..... It was "just a thought" that I had so I threw out, in response to HIS idea.(p14) "Here's an idea. Read the BIBLE. While you read your cult books I was searching the sciptures..." I said that because what HE wrote (about judging from a critical counter-intuitive perspective) indicated to ME that he hadn't and probably doesn't read the Bible. I showed my reasoning, even posted the scripture Romans 2:1 and its context. THEN I told him I understand where he's coming from but don't get caught up in making judgements and try and pull others into his (group think) cult of making judgements. Then he twisted my words: "Seems to me you said a decision was made to discontinue the evaluation because it was unwise, or something like that, to do it while driving. By that time it was too late. The driver was distracted beyond the point of no return. He didn't see it coming because he was distracted." No I said, He put the paper down. Most of the evaluation was talking. The paper only said topics to discuss. He didn't see the ditch because it was up the road and behind him when the truck fishtailed to the left, pointing it to the right. Ditch was on the left, behind him.