Mark Clarke

Tom, I came to the same conclusion as well, regarding God's Holy Spirit as opposed to each of us having "our own" holy spirit. I think that old teaching was (at least partly) based on the wrong teaching about man having been body, soul, and spirit and then losing spirit so he needed to get it back. I started a thread about this a while back, unfortunately it turned into a debate about the trinity. You may still find parts of it interesting.

Possibly something from Bullinger's Numbers in Scripture. I seem to remember he had several examples of numbers and numerical patterns in nature as well as in the Bible.

One statement from that site I do agree with: "The hero of the Way Ministry was not him, but God." Anything that was good about it was because of God, and blessed people in spite of the bad things in the ministry.

That is the burning question of our age. (Should we flag this as a hot topic?)

My two cents....

Those things aren't morbid, they're just misguided.

Here's another one of his that I like.

You're right, thanks. I corrected it in my post.

morbid (definition 2): abnormally susceptible to or characterized by gloomy or unwholesome feelings. It's not only morbid, but in bad taste. The man was warped. He's dead. God will judge him. Holding onto such hatred will do nothing against him, but it has a negative effect on the ones holding onto it. I don't expect to be agreed with, I just thought I'd say it.

Build a man a fire and you warm him for a day. Set a man on fire and you warm him for the rest of his life.

Twinky, You are very fortunate to have found such a house group. That's the way it's supposed to be, IMO. Too bad there aren't more of them around.

Satire IS protected under fair use. twi, as usual, rattled their sabers and bluffed. YouTube rolled over. I think it may have to do with the fact that the song was lifted right from the soundtrack of Rocky Horror and just combined with the visuals. I seem to remember hearing that a new recording in which the song was parodied constitutes satire, but not just combining the same song with different visuals. (I could be wrong.) Besides, the msg says it was pulled by Fox, not by TWI.

It is still on the main page here at GreaseSpot.

"You Don't Know" by Cyndi Lauper You don't know where you belong ... You just need to belong somehow. Relying on rhetoric ... Not well versed on topics ... Any idea what you're talking about ? Revisions of history Fair well in some company But don't shove that bullsh!t down my throat You don't know where you belong ... You should be more careful As you follow blindly along ... You just need to belong somehow. Left suppresses right Right suppresses left So what's the left, and what's right ? You're told what to wear, You're told what to like It'd be nice if you'd think for yourself sometime, But you don't. Now you don't know where you belong ... You should be more careful As you follow blindly along ... You just need to belong somehow. You just need to belong somehow. So life turns up empty And you're so dissatisfied Who are you blaming this time ? Don't you know ? Now you don't know where you belong ... You should be more careful As you follow blindly along ... To find something to swear to ... Till you don't know what's right from wrong You just need to belong somehow. You just need to belong somehow. See Video Here This expresses a big part of why I bought it for so long. I needed to belong and didn't think for myself.

I don't know you or where you are in the picture, but the clothes and hairstyles really take me back. Sometimes I miss the '70s.

I saw your name in the birthday section at the bottom. What a pleasant surprise! Haven't heard anything of you in years, and I didn't even know you frequented GreaseSpot. I hope your birthday is happy. Mark

"Somehow"? How could it NOT be future? The devil has not been bound, Christ and the saints have not reigned on earth for a thousand years, the devil has not gathered great armies against the saints after being released, and the Great White Throne judgment has not taken place. All these things take place BEFORE verses 13 and 14 which you quoted. Your point was that 'hades' is "more of knowing by being shown" by "1st hand experience." No one has had first hand experience of hades and told anyone about it. If Lazarus told anyone what it was like, it isn't recorded anywhere. And the men of God who wrote by revelation from God described it in several places as being a state of unconsciousness.

Who has first hand experience of hades and has communicated it to us? That's true. If it weren't for the Bible, anybody could believe anything they wanted to. Come to think of it, many people do!

His thoughts are higher than ours but He still chose to communicate to us with words. That's the whole point of the Scriptures. True, the holy spirit can enlighten us as we read the Scriptures, but the Scripture has to be where it starts. Nothing the spirit shows us can contradict what God has written. And again, it's not just "definitions of words," it's understanding what they mean by observing how they are used, and understanding concepts by what words are used. As I said, both Jews and Greeks in the first century used the word hades, but when you consider what they each said about it, you see the difference in their meanings.

I'm not sure what your point is. I already said their beliefs are not based on language alone. Beliefs are ideas which are communicated by language. What do you mean by another language?

No, their beliefs are communicated by the words, as are those of the Hebrews. But the words they use must be understood in their context and usage. Not so odd, when you consider that the word hades had been used to translate sheol in the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament) which was many years before Christ. They were both talking about the abode of the dead - they just had different beliefs about what it was like.

The point I have been making is that God doesn't cast anyone into everlasting torment. Everybody dies at least once. Those that accept His offer of salvation based on what Jesus did are resurrected and given the gift of life in the age to come. Those that reject His offer are raised to be judged and then have the second death which is final; they no longer exist. I agree that a being that would cast anyone into everlasting torment would be at least petty if not cruel.

Those are Greek ideas. But the writers of the New Testament were communicating Hebrew ideas. The word in Greek for the abode of the dead was hades, and it was used to translate the Hebrew word sheol in the Septuagint. The writers of the NT used the word hades because they were writing in Greek, but they used it in a different way. You have to examine how the word is used in the Scriptures to see the difference between the Hebrew idea of unconscious sleep and the Greek idea of a conscious abode.

That was what PFAL taught, but it doesn't fit with the Biblical usage of "death," "spirit," or "born again." On the other hand, believe the words of Jesus Christ, not what organized religion tells you he said, and it's not a waste of time. Depends on which "hell" you're referring to.