Mark Clarke

VP probably thought it would be easier to mold and control a dull bulb than an independent thinker. Apparently that turned out not to be the case with LCM, at least when it came to pushing athletic imagery.

I remember hearing that even VPW disapproved of the production. Was that just in POP or did anybody else hear of it from other sources?

Plus, that gecko is really cute. They need to lose the caveman though!

In case you haven't seen this... (or if you have, it's appropos and still good for a laugh) -

It seems like the visions in Revelation are the future church, and so would constitute those that "made it" - i.e., stayed faithful. You're right about TWI putting so much emphasis on "confess" rather than "believe" in Rom. 10:9. Lots of so-called Christians think it's enough to say the words and go through the motions, but Jesus said that those people will be told that he never knew them (Matt. 7:23). In addition, what does it mean to confess Jesus as Lord? You'd have to understand what he was Lord of. He said that the key to salvation was to believe his words. Can someone be his disciple, and confess him as Lord, when they don't even know what his message was, or what he was all about? It has to begin with an understanding and acceptance of his Gospel message, which has gotten muddied and nearly lost in most churches. The OT slave you referred to served for seven years and then if he loved his master and wanted to serve for life he made that commitment. But it may not have taken the whole seven years to make that decision. He may have decided early on that his master was worth serving. Some people accept the Gospel immediately upon hearing it, and others take a while, but the important thing is that they accept it. As for the various stages of development, I think you're right that there will be differences among the people in terms of their responsibility. But it seems like it will be based on their faithfulness with what they had, according to the parable in Luke 19:12ff. But at the same time, it appears that the length of time they were laboring won't be as much of a factor, according to Matthew 19:27 - 20:16. I don't know exactly what it means for an unbelieving spouse to be "sanctified." There are a lot of questions that come up regarding who will be in and who won't. Fortunately, God is a righteous judge, and we can take comfort in that, even if we don't understand it all.

The bitch!! But seriously folks... I find it amazing that so many people had this attitude in TWI, even though the "official" teaching was that women could be leaders as well as men. They even ordained women, if you remember. I guess some mindsets are harder to get rid of than others, on the grass roots level.

I know what you mean. After TWI and my experiences with splinter groups, I had to re-evaluate my entire belief system. Now for the first time I know why I believe what I do, not because someone told me what I should believe.

Was that the same guy that drew all those psychedelic cartoons? And we all lived to tell about it! We now return this thread to its regularly scheduled program.

A publisher hands a manuscript back to its author. The publisher says, "I'm sorry, we can't publish your autobiography." "Hmph," says the author. "Story of my life!"

Yeah... at least we didn't get stoned in a circle like on That 70's Show! (As I recall we used to say, "Who needs drugs - we're high without them!")

If the sermon was good and you just felt uncomfortable with the "Jesus" cries, ask yourself, why does it bother you? For me that kind of thing bothered me because in TWI we were warned against having too much emotion, because it could be misleading, or even "open your mind to devil spirits" as they would say. But I don't think God meant for us not to have our emotions involved in our relationship with Him. Ever read some of the Psalms? There is a balance to it of course, but too many in TWI were cold, hard, and "anti-emotion." Also, we were taught that the name 'Jesus' emphasized his humiliated side while 'Christ' emphasized his exalted side. So we would never say anything like "Thank you, Jesus!" However, I learned a while back that there is no Biblical foundation for that idea. Yet it took me several years before I could even SAY 'Jesus' without 'Christ', let alone utter anything emotionally. So if they're teaching the Bible and living Christian love as far as you can see, you may just need time to get used to their "style" of worship.

Wow! That song touches me. Sometimes stuff happens and you wonder where God was or is. He's always there even though I can't for the life of me see how or where. "But it don't do no good to get angry, so help me I know." You really do become your own prisoner if you let your heart stay bitter. I'm only now learning how to get out of that. (Not there all the way yet.) Excie, consider yourself hugged! Here's the lyrics with the lines spaced; makes it easier to read-- Bruised Orange (Chain of Sorrow) My heart's in the ice house come hill or come valley Like a long ago Sunday when I walked through the alley On a cold winter's morning to a church house just to shovel some snow. I heard sirens on the train track howl naked gettin' nuder, An altar boy's been hit by a local commuter just from walking with his back turned to the train that was coming so slow. You can gaze out the window get mad and get madder, throw your hands in the air, say "What does it matter?" but it don't do no good to get angry, so help me I know For a heart stained in anger grows weak and grows bitter. You’ll become your own prisoner as you watch yourself sit there wrapped up in a trap of your very own chain of sorrow. I been brought down to zero, pulled out and put back there. I sat on a park bench, kissed the girl with the black hair and my head shouted down to my heart "You better look out below!" It ain't such a long drop don't stammer don't stutter from the diamonds in the sidewalk to the dirt in the gutter and you carry those bruises to remind you wherever you go. You can gaze out the window get mad and get madder, throw your hands in the air, say "What does it matter?" but it don't do no good to get angry, so help me I know For a heart stained in anger grows weak and grows bitter. You become your own prisoner as you watch yourself sit there wrapped up in a trap of your very own chain of sorrow.

How about this for a title? "How GOD changed my life, even in the midst of The Way International"

I didn't expect that! I always thought it would be funny to have a diet center, and call it The Weigh International.

If it were out west, it would be the Cone of Paladin - Have Wind, Will Travel.

Now that we have elected Barack, does that make us an Obama-nation? :D

Just to clarify, I don't believe that God "snatches away" salvation. Like you I believe that salvation is a process involving a lifetime of faith, which it is possible for some to turn away from. Me too!

I'll bet it was real... so-so!

It's not a matter of being oblivious to administrations. It's a matter of seeing that while there is a difference between the Old and New Covenants which Paul clearly spells out in his epistles, there is no Biblical foundation for the idea that salvation is a one-time permanent event no matter what you do afterward. Rather than restating all the "logic" arguments that have been put forth before, address the scriptures that have been quoted in the above posts and weigh them against the cliches we were taught.

I think it's fantastic that a black man was elected president, considering the history of race relations in this country. I only hope the majority of people who voted for him did not do so just because he's black. Whether he will be a good president should have nothing to do with his race or color. Will he be a good president? Only time will tell. He seems to be what so many people have been saying they wanted. So let them have their way this time. The Republicans had their way for 8 years, the Democrats for 8 years before that, and the Republicans had 12 years before that. The pendulum has swung back and forth for years and years, and guess what? It hasn't made that much of a difference! I have been on both ends of the political spectrum at various times in my life. As a teenager I was a liberal. In my days in The Way I was convinced that right-wing politics was equivalent to religion. Now I am even more convinced that politics is not the answer, no matter what the flavor of the month is. I am not so much "middle of the road" as "OFF road." No matter who got elected, the monetary system needs to be reformed or there will be no real lasting change in the economy. And neither candidate has any plans to reform the monetary system. So the economy will continue, getting temporary fixes at best. And the country as a whole will not change until the hearts of the people change, and that will not be affected by any politician. Nevertheless, regardless of what we may think of his politics, the American system works, the people have spoken, and Obama is our president. But he is neither the devil nor the savior. One day Jesus Christ will return and rule the world in perfect righteousness. THEN “change will come” to America and to the world. Meanwhile God is still ultimately in charge, and He will see us through the good or the bad, whatever comes. Rather than “Yes we can” our rallying cry should be “Yes HE can!”

I'm not sure what to make of this ... where did George do his research? I'm more wondering where Matilda did her research. I looked up "paloma" in an online Portuguese-English dictionary, and it wasn't found. Also, it said the Portuguese word for prostitute is prostituta. Still, I had fun with the word meretrix.... From Ask Oxford: meretricious • adjective showily but falsely attractive. — ORIGIN from Latin meretrix ‘prostitute’, from mereri ‘be hired’. Meretricious to all, and to all a good night! From Ask Oxford: Minotaur • noun Greek Mythology - a creature who was half-man and half-bull, kept in a labyrinth on Crete by King Minos and killed by Theseus. Can you imagine what that would smell like! (Isn't it amazing what you can learn from a dictionary?!)

He will need it. I Tim. 1: 1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Sometimes you just have to take the bull by the horns.