WordWolf

Mike: "Jesus Christ appointed Dr his spokesman. Jesus Christ is VERY interested in PFAL. He told me so." WordWolf: Well, Mike, since you've brought it up, I think your mental health isn't all it should be.

Mike: "I think his old-man nature was completely contrary to what he really was and what he did when he was in fellowship. When he was in fellowship he did great things for us. THAT is what I prefer to focus on and magnify. Focus on his old man nature and he was a failure. Focus on his new man nature and he was a success." skyrider: "When was wierwille "in fellowship?" When was wierwille's "new man nature" evident?" "Since you asserted wierwille's new man nature was evident and he did great things when he was "in fellowship with God"..... I would like some examples of this. Can you elaborate? If it was SO EVIDENT..... then you must have DOZENS of examples." Mike: "It's mostly in the written works, but recorded teachings and personal appearances helped also. My life was benefited greatly; still is. " skyrider: "Another evasive answer, at best. " WordWolf: No, it tells us a lot. It tells us that, when all is said and done, the BEST that Mike can cite about what vpw did, the biggest impact made on anybody's life in a POSITIVE way, was in the Bible teachings, homilies, sermons, books, etc. Those were the "great" things Mike's got to offer. So Crates: "So you're saying Saint Vic was most in fellowship when he was being a phony, being hypocritical, and when he was ripping off other people's work. SMH. " skyrider: "TRANSLATION: Mike makes these grandiose declarations about wierwille's life and "greatness"..... but then gives evasive replies to back up wierwille's new man nature in Christ. This evasiveness has all the hallmarks of a snake oil representative selling a product from a snake oil company. Always barking bold assertions of wierwille's wares, but only in the shadowy form of generalities. Pfffttt."

He spent an awful lot of time working with the English definition of "daysman", which is a shame because it's such a non-issue to fixate on the specifics of the ENGLISH definition of words in the Bible.

Not me. I'm going to do the mother of all marathons at some point.

The beginning of the first movie showed Stark blacksmithing, this one showed Ivan Vanko blacksmithing. A more faint contrast was Stark vs Hammer, past and present weapons manufacturers, still in the same social circles, with Hammer unable to get media attention behind Stark. The film footage of Howard Stark contrasted nicely with Tony, even to the casual drinking. Finally, Stark as Iron Man and Rhodey as War Machine was another contrast. Pepper and Natasha were 2 redheads not quite on the same page, and Rhodey vs Ivan Vanko. Stark was drinking too much, and risked his life on a whim racing the car- a decision which almost killed him. Lastly, Nick Fury of SHIELD was contrasted with Senator Stern, who bookended the movie nicely.

CORRECT!

B) was indeed "Wipeout". Furthermore, C) was "FLOOR IS LAVA." And A) was "Frogger."

A) This game-show was inspired by an early 1980s video game by Konami, whose name it shares. Damon Wayans Jr is one of the hosts. It started out on Peacock (NBC streaming) but has appeared elsewhere in syndication. Contestants attempt to cross any of several "screens" (play areas) without "drowning" and "losing a life." Pairs of contestants try each area, with the better of the 2 moving on to the final round, where the best score comes from the most "hostages" (my term) rescued and the best time- but with a timer and with only one "life". The winner of each episode wins a fanny-pack full of money, and returns to try to make it to the series finale, for even more money. No part closely resembles the arcade game, but one "level" does involve crossing a highway, and at least one "level" involves crossing some sort of river, above crocodiles. The original arcade game was distributed by Sega, leading to a question of ownership. Konami won and made all sorts of sequels for the game, some on newer platforms, and a pinball machine (and that's not counting the slot machines.) A variant of the original is playable in your browser. This game- and game-show- have no connection with anyone equipped to do extended periods of independent underwater activity. B) John Cena's one of the hosts of this show. It's another show where contestants risk "drowning" and getting knocked from places. It's NOT inspired by any video game or other source AFAIK. This show has already had several seasons, between ABC and TBS. It supposedly has the "world's largest obstacle course." Despite the name, there is no connection to surfing with this show. People do, however, get removed from the show as the result of being knocked down from places, often by water or a padded obstacle. There is also no connection to having a problem while surfing. C) Don't fall under in this game-show or you're out, and your team has to manage without you! In this game, you have to traverse any of several "rooms" that are booby-trapped and make it to the end. If you go under, you're "dead" for reasons obvious to people who know this show's title. It's inspired by a children's game. The children's game can be invoked anywhere, but the game is properly played at someone's house, without shoes, and preferably by smaller children that don't weigh as much as adults. That's because they're going to be climbing all over the furniture, hopefully not breaking anything, but definitely not walking on the floor. Although this game was probably never played in Herculaneum, suggesting that someone do so would probably be considered to be in INCREDIBLY bad taste.

Cesar Romero Norman Fell Red Skelton Pinky Lee George Raft Peter Lawford

Maybe another quote?

Educated guess...... HONOLULU?????

Batman Begins Gary Oldman The Fifth Element

Waysider was responding to the idea that we should disregard the evil that vpw did, since to view that was to view a "failure" and to view him by some nebulous "new man" showed some sort of "success." Waysider: "Focus on his mobster ways and ties to the underworld and Al Capone was a failure. Focus on the 2,200 people per day who were served by his soup kitchen and he was a success."

Boy, that sure IS the same....

You make it sound like their forming a group was accidental. They went into things with the internet domain names already reserved for when they officially formed the group of the same name.

Thanks- that's the point I was trying to make. I have no idea how I left so many people behind on that one.

"If my God was as small as your God, I'd get me a NEW God."- vpw

[I provided the link because Mike's post was hidden in a reply. So, people can link and read all of what I'm replying to...] Mike: "The thing that is genuine "anti" in my proposed new term (Trademark Pending) is the reversal of excessive-love to excessive-hate. My theory is that most of the people who are very anti-wierwille now WERE very pro-wierwille when first taking the class. Finding out that VPW was not the holy man they idolized at first caused them to "snap" against him with with the same zeal as when they positively idolized him. It was a rush to idolize him and join the Corps early, and then a rush to anti-idolize him. In both rushes, there wasn't time to really sort things out properly." WordWolf: Taking people who dedicated themselves to God, their lives to God, who truly thought that loyalty was to God alone, and siphoning off that love of God and commitment, telling them this person was helping them get all of that done, then them finding out that the supposed leader, who supposedly dedicated his life to God, instead dedicated his life to alcoholism, tobacco, rape, molestation, and creature comforts, and all his talk about dedication to God was all a SMOKESCREEN for that, all a trick to get them to hand over all their money so he could booze up, smoke up, and live it up, while taking dedicated women who dedicated their lives to God and molested them and raped them, that will get an emotional reaction no matter who is involved. People went from completely buying into layer upon layer of snow job, to suddenly learning in one moment how FALSE it was, how FRAUDULENT vpw was, how HYPOCRITICAL he was, how PREDATORY he was. That's bound to get an emotional reaction- unless, of course, one decided never to actually address ANY of it. If one decided to blow all of it off under "boys will be boys", then things that outrage Jesus can be swept under the rug, and one can go on to ridicule people who have a legitimate emotional response to destroyed lives, hurt lives, capital crimes, causing God's people to hurt and stumble and savaging them. The only reasons I have this theory are: (1) because in the 1970s I saw with my own eyes many grads go faster and farther than me in “going ga-ga” over VPW, going WOW, and going into the Corps. I thought they went without thinking it all through carefully, setting aside the emotions of love and excitement. I was slow with this; they were fast. (2) because from 1986 till now, I saw with my own eyes many grads go faster and farther than me in being enraged over VPW’s revealed sins, going ape over throwing away all he ever said did regardless of its truth value. I think few think it all through carefully, setting aside the emotions of anger and unnecessary emotion. I go slow with this. WordWolf: People encountered happy, genuine Christians. They were told the reason they were so happy was this group teaching the Bible. They visit the group and are told much the same. They join the happy, genuine Christians, enjoying fellowship with them (by the normal usage of the word.) They are told, repeatedly, that the key to being so happy is this class this guy teaches, and how everybody there all agrees. Eventually, they buy into it, and take the class taught by the man who called himself "THE TEACHER" and built up his image so everybody sold him like that. All through the class, there's grads who keep up the love and fellowship. Afterwards, they're treated as somewhat higher, having that in common with the happy, genuine Christians. They're talked into taking more classes. They're leaned on- carefully- to donate their time and money- first 10%, then more, then all of their discretionary income- because of how holy the organization is, how important to God its leader is, how hard he works for both God and his people. Convinced (eventually) that to grow most with God will be to go WOW, some go. When they return, they're treated like heroes. Then they're convinced that to REALLY grow with God will be to go Corps. Dedicated to God, these poor, naive kids go Corps and try their best, absorbing the lessons taught there- many of which were unhealthy and exploited their loyalty, all by the so-called godly leader. They put in thousands upon thousands of hours of their lives, and much of their income, even choosing lesser jobs so they can attend events once a year, all because they're trying to do their best for God, and told this is how they do it. Then, they discover it was all built on lies. The only legit Christianity there was the LOCAL form they FIRST experienced. All the legit Christians had been shilling for a fraud, a conman, who sold lots of classes, lots of books, lots of events, always making a profit at every level, a man whose teachings were all cobbled together from the work of other, legit Christians. This man then took that money, and spent lots on creature comforts, chain-smoked, drank all day because he was addicted to alcohol AND tobacco, and in between all that set up an ELABORATE system to rape and molest some of God's women, covering his tracks at every level. The most dedicated of God's people respond to that by being enraged. Then Mike comes along and dares to say there's something wrong with that-that their anger and emotion are "unnecessary", that they should ignore all of that and stay loyal to the alcoholic rapist because he taught some good Bible. Mike doesn't seem to get a lot of converts to his thinking- for which he blames the people he tries to recruit. "The good that came from PFAL and TWI-1 was far greater than the bad, and GreaseSpotters who can’t integrate this in their world-view will continue to have a terrible reputation with grads out there." WordWolf: This isn't about popularity, it's about TRUTH. When people come here- and lots of them come here- they come here to read the truth. The truth is that the good that came in early twi came from the Jesus People that were recruited. What vpw contributed mostly is the "bad" we object to- and most people have no trouble understanding that once they learn what was hidden from them BY vpw. People like Mike who can't integrate this in his world-view will spend the rest of their lives spinning their wheels and being allowed to show up places, but never quite getting the RESPECT he thinks he has earned. I have people who disagree with me fundamentally on all sorts of stuff, but most of them respect me nonetheless, because I have earned their respect through integrity if nothing else. I've interacted with grads out there. They have no problem finding out what I believe. I have a GOOD reputation among them, and when I speak on God's Word, they take it seriously (I have proof.) it's possible that the good in twi- which came from the Jesus People- was far greater than the bad- the rapes, molestations, vices, greed, vanity and so on that came from vpw- but even if it was, I'd be slow to say so, especially to those who were victimized by vpw and his system. Is human life subject to CALCULATIONS, how much HARM is worth how much BLESSING? The Blessing of The Lord benefits with NO SORROW added with it. That's not a description of twi in ANY era. Have you ever researched around with old grads to find out what they think of GreaseSpot? [I know that they all come here when they want the truth on what twi is doing lately or has done since they checked in last- including people who are embarrassed to SAY they check in here. I know twi's innies come here to find out the truth on twi. I know twi's hierarchy knows all that- they insisted we post a letter of theirs to their own followers in order to do damage control on what information leaked out via the GSC. And there's thousands who posted here and have moved on with their lives- GSC success stories. I'm sure there's a few grads to whom this does not apply- there's always a minority- but I'm not going to throw away integrity and truth just to try to cozy up to people who value both so little that they spurn the GSC. I'm not here to make friends- although I've made some anyway- people who DO value truth and integrity. I do have a reputation, and it's not for being snuggly-wuggly, it's for telling the unadulterated truth. I didn't get that overnight nor by accident. It was the by-product of many decisions to value truth and integrity. People who don't make those decisions may get baffled as to how anyone can disagree with me or even dislike me, but still respect me. Well. the answer is there for those who want to know.]

One of the themes in this 2nd movie was one of contrasts. We saw the protagonist contrasted clearly with one villain, we saw him contrasted more faintly with the other, we saw him contrasted with his father, we saw him contrasted with his best friend. We also saw the 2 female characters contrasted with each other, and his best friend contrasted with one villain. We saw vices contrasted with each other, fast living was dangerous living. Finally, we saw the forces representing the establishment- or, more to the point, one representative of each- contrasted with each other.

That's because you can see how history progresses. To someone looking to exonerate those who set the stage, history is something that happened all at once, with nothing leading to it.

"TWI circa 1971-1982 was vastly different, and free of the Corps elitism that took over when Craig took over in 1982. Oddly, there is much testimony here from Ralph D about this good phase of unsupervised witnessing of Jesus AND the class that happened on Long Island. " You can't get the differences because you refuse to look at them. twi circa 1971 was vpw reeling in all the House of Acts Jesus People, and sending them out on the road. People saw legit Christians- the Jesus People- and were told (by naive Jesus People who didn't MEAN to lie but were genuinely mistaken) that there was a connection between what people saw and twi, vpw, pfal. There was not. The twi growth all stems from THOSE people. What was vpw's "contribution" to this? Mostly the labels of twi, pfal, himself, and the Corps elitism he slowly dropped on them. The Corps elitism didn't suddenly arrive in 1982. vpw set it up, inflicted it on lcm, and inflicted it on Jesus People and on people they recruited. twi circa 1982 was the result of twi 1971-1981, and THAT was the result of what vpw had made it. Anyone who can't see that isn't looking. History doesn't drop out of the sky, it happens every day.

" I think this is a side-effect of all the building and maintaining an anti-idol, that eclipses objective and accurately detailed essays on the history of TWI. Few here even try to emulate the objective standards that still exist in professional journalism. I often try to UN-BLUR the differences." Mike, I think you're the only one you're successfully conning that you have anything in common with professional journalists. Your standards are anything BUT objective, and you're rather PROUD you have one standard for vpw and one standard for everyone else. That's NOT objective. Also, making up terms just to hang them on people who disagree with you isn't journalism.

It's like a fish extolling the virtues of the line because of how delicious the BAIT was. False dilemna. Nobody expected that. Nobody expects it now. Nobody complains vpw wasn't perfect. We complain he was a plagiarizing rapist whose "ministry" was built on genuine Christians upon whose work a fraud propped himself. HE was a fake, and that's not what we wanted, nor what we were told at the time. For those of us able to distinguish the bait from the hook, the appeal of "come back to pfal" just isn't going to snag us. If there were any "great truths", it wasn't because vpw was legit, it was because vpw needed the legit to bait the hook. My God is not that small that I have to fall for that con to receive truths or blessings. In an absolute sense, sin is sin. From the view on the ground, it's very insulting to compare the types of sin you might encounter here- flashes of anger, moments of bad judgement, seeking God through false idols presented as preachers- and serial rapists using God's Word as their cover, and God's People as their merchandise. If I ever sin at the level the plagiarizing rapist did, may the villagers hang me or burn me at the stake before I make as many victims as he did.

Next movie. Cesar Romero Norman Fell Red Skelton

I don't think the clues are pointing this way, but I have to ask- "CARRIE?"