WordWolf

Who said they had a CHOICE about displaying depressing posters in their home? BTW, anyone using the keys in Whiteside's book on Culture would have a field day pointing out the spiritual darkness in this picture. Anybody know if they're still selling it, or is Whiteside still alive and "mark and avoided"?

Wordwolf, I don't know the letter you're referring to. Can I have a copy?(snip) My opinion about the pot calling the kettle black is for the people who were accusing us of being Carnal Thinkers -- chiefly, Vince F. There were others too. But I do believe that most folks (average believers) who left were following their local leadership without examining the other side of the coin and confronting the BOT with the apprehensions. For instance, how many folks actually called headquarters to make an attempt to speak to one of the trustees? Very few. I happen to know for a fact that Don Wierwille was taking phone calls from anyone who would listen, back in those days. I personally asked my twig coordinators to do that, call Don and voice their concerns to him, but they refused. I eventually left their twig, because they couldn't give a fig about what I thought.A) The letters were discussed here before. Those were the ones where all the staff were named that were being fired. I posed it then but I'm not retyping it now. It was the first time lcm used the "mark and avoid" gambit. According to the previous discussion, the thing was a form letter. Every state got the same letter, with the exception of the names, which were different for each state. What I posted above was a less-diplomatic paraphrase of it. (You can try a search on the previous discussion, maybe.) B) I disagree with what you said about "the average believer." I was in touch with Christians all over the country at the time. (Before the internet, even! :)--> ) MANY sent letters and got back snippy replies. Responses were variations of "don't worry about that-just follow our instructions." That's when I scrapped my own letter which I was working on. Mail replies were definitely curt. I also took the liberty of posing my questions FACE TO FACE on grounds. The responses all confirmed what the letter told me. Leadership at hq were acting and planning in a non-Christian way, and were more concerned with loyalty and obedience than in godly edifying. What happened when you posted your questions face to face, OM? I know for a fact I was not the ONLY one who went face to face. Me, I was threatened with physical violence.... This scared me not one bit and only provided the nail in the coffin. Some people can't be coerced by brand loyalty nor intimidation. From what I saw, those who stayed had zeal, but the brains had largely left. (Judging from a nonrepresentative sampling I took across an ROA.)

A) You haven't yet-why should he think you'd start now? He has as much evidence that loyboy has reformed and is now a model Christian living quietly and humbly. B) vpw either walked with great revelation or he did not. If he DID, he failed majorly by handing out important positions to people who were unqualified to hold them, to the detriment of LARGE NUMBERS of people who had to deal with them (the Bookstore, the way corpse, etc.) If he wanted to give a cushy, "make-work" job without harming people, he could have made up a bs job. It would have wasted money but hurt no one. However, he was more concerned with the money he'd lose, and having the unreserved loyalty of them. If he did NOT, then he was a fraud and lied intentionally about the deep spiritual walk and decision-making. So, either it was accidental, or intentional. He was incompetent, or corrupt. Now, that was presented as a case using as evidence the testimony in this thread. What are the Greek's odds you'll agree?

If you know WordWolf, there's a pretty durned good chance you know me. If Sunesis didn't join TWBF/VP/CG in 89/90, chances are we didn't meet. I wasn't into Manhattan meetings often until about that time. We might have met, we might not. If I described how I dressed back then, and Sunesis recognized me from that, then we DID meet, maybe. Raf showed up at Manhattan meetings less frequently than I did.

Yes-you're justifying yourself by making villains out of the other guy, claiming you read his mind and know the reasons the average NY'er left. BTW, I didn't hear any of that back then....

I think it was more like 95%. I think had Vince stood with Craig, those folks would have hung around longer. But in those days, it was like the pot calling the kettle black. Vince was calling us Carnal Thinkers for "standing with" Craig, but look at all those folks who "stood with" Vince and Geer.Wordwolf, if that doesn't apply to you, more power to you. Some folks did leave independently on their own, instead of pointing one massive finger. :)--> Forgot the letter twi sent out? "Although we don't know most of them, we're announcing that all the local leaders you've had several years to form your own opinions on are actually evil and selfish, and your opinion of them doesn't count. You are not to stay in contact with your branch, territory or limb coordinators." That was a pretty strong indicator right there that the bosses at hq had no idea what they were talking about. They DEMANDED an oath of allegiance. The other guys said it was ungodly, and cited verses. How political did that have to be? How subtle and clever?

Honestly, You can uninstall it (leaving the hotfixes intact) IF: A) you have a resident antivirus program, updated weekly or more often (I say DAILY) B) you have the latest build of AdAware AND Spybot S & D, and have them updated weekly or more often (I say DAILY) C) you went to http://www.grc.com and ran "Unplug 'n Pray", "Shoot the Messenger", "DCOMMbobulator" and anything else that looked useful D) you have something else you're using for a popup blocker E) you have a decent (nonWindows/microsoft) firewall in use. Me, I'm leaving it in place for now, but if it gives me trouble, or I need the space, Im chucking it.

Most of New York State left in 1989. V1nce F pretty much looked to Gartmore for direction at the time, and he was making a LOT more sense that year than loyboy was. So, the state mostly left together as a cohesive unit, at least 80% of the state. Mind you, I had poked around hq on my own, and had come to the independent conclusion that even if I would be operating independently of everyone else, I had to leave then- hq just plain got really weird and blatantly "off The Word". So, nobody noticed I left, since I was one of thousands who walked at the time. That year, I stayed with the state-unit.

Ah, yes... the closing moments of "Best of Both Worlds, Part II". That perspective sure puts a new spin on "ST:First Contact", no? I think we can all empathize with his insight and his burning rage at the borg in that movie.... (almost all of us, anyway.)

Well, THERE's a brilliant idea.... Find a woman who you want to "cure" of homosexuality, then "facilitate" her "cure" by hooking her up with a guy who confirms the worst stereotypes about men. Just another example of the walk by revelation vpw used 24/7.... ...so long as the commonly-heard story is TRUE. I've heard it here, but I can't confirm it. As to the women in Rosa-lie's basement, there's something in the photo gallery, if you're bored.

Posted by jsamuel. [WordWolf replies in boldface as usual.] [by the way, what's your opinion of life under VPW, before LCM? ]

Do you see any possible benefit of JPW speaking up at this time? I don't. He's got a life, and his mother has a life. Yes, twi dealt with them without honour, which is not that big a surprise around here. What benefit, though, would either of them reap by JPW continuing to bang the drum? As it is, even though they hosed his mother, she may be better off now that she is out amongst real people and free of the groupthink and lifeless stagnation on grounds. I wonder who's living in her house, though.

"Does ol' Bessie the cow have a soul? If Bessie the cow had a soul, she couldn't go... whichever way she goes moo-moo, or something." Words of wisdom stuck in my brain, that won't ever leave.

The general consensus among the computer types is that it is best when installing on a new computer or the like. I cleaned everything up I could think of cleaning up, including performing a scandisk. I made a restore point, crossed my fingers, and installed SP2. (I did the praying before making my preparations, which is probably why I did the scandisk.) So far, after the first tweaking of the control center, it seems to not be causing problems. Of course, I told it to do as little as possible, and I've never broken into my registry or anything. Honestly, if I was setting up a new computer, it would be a very good idea to install SP2 before connecting to the internet the first time. This would install all the hotfixes, including all of Service Pack 1, and set up the internal firewall. As soon as I got online, however, I'd start with a real firewall and antivirus (unless I installed one of each from disk), and then set that up and turn off the Windows firewall. To me, it just buys time so you can get a real firewall. I'd operate under the assumption it didn't stop much, and act accordingly (act as if I have to find whatever made it in as soon as I connected to the net.)

Snakebite (UK version) 1/2 mug hard cider 1/2 mug lager Serve chilled. ---------- I drink less now than I used to, and I never drank a lot before. That's one of the few I'll still drink-and a lot of places don't have hard cider on tap, so it's a good excuse not to drink alcohol. :)--> Of course, if you're drinking at home, it doesn't take a lot of skill to open a bottle of Sam Adams, a bottle of Hard cider, and split them. You can even share, if nobody wanted a lot. (Or open 2 more bottles if you wanted to get smashed.)

Sites with some history of twi... http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/cultsthe.htm http://www.watchman.org/profile/waypro.htm http://www.excultworld.com/twi.htm

Right. If you know where one is or (better yet) can post a link, I'd appreciate it. I know they're around here somewhere.

Interesting how possibly the only unambiguous reference to vpw learning anything on the holy spirit field in "Receiving The Holy Spirit Today" was one anonymous mention of a man of God who taught him some things, the emphasis was on vpw's search, not the other guy actually knowing stuff, AND IT WAS DELETED FROM ALL SUCCEEDING EDITIONS. The rest of the book, he was pretty specific. He used his Bible as his "handbook" and his "textbook". Period. Been a while since you've read the Preface, I take it. The only mention of others in the Preface- other than the people who taught him and were "sincere" (translation in twispeak: "IN ERROR AND TOO STUPID TO KNOW IT"), was those people who proofread and edited.

If the problem persists, and resists solving, may I remind you that some of us get along great with one of several stable, free firewalls? Just a thought.

I've heard a number of people say they uninstalled it after installing. In fact, since installing it, restarting, then uninstalling it will install all the hotfixes and things while taking back out all the bs that caused problems on installation, some people are recommending doing that very thing. Me, I haven't decided. If you don't here from me for about a week, you'll know I installed it and had some problems uninstalling it.... :)-->

Thanks. I keep making that mistake, and I keep trying not to.

I noticed we don't have any convenient guides to the history of twi. I wouldn't mind trying to organize and briefly summarize things with the right data. Please help. Please post your links to lengthier explanations of things, and periods in time. Please post your recollections of significant events, along with the year (years, decade) they happened. Let's run from the beginning to the present day, any order you can recollect. (I'll try to organize the thread, along with poster's names, unless they don't want mention, on a different thread, in chronological order, when we're done.) ======================== Ok, history. Up to 1st century AD. God does a bunch of stuff. 1st century AD. Jesus Christ, The Messiah, is born and redeems mankind. He's sacrificed, resurrected and ascends. Pentecost arrives, and the gift of holy spirit is poured out among men. "Born Again" is now an option. The New Testament is written. The Christian "church" spreads over the region, despite being illegal in places and spoken-against in places. It shows a distinct lack of central organization, standardization of any kind, organized classes, and indeed, copies of most of the canon in most places. It also lacked a tithe. 2nd century AD-early 1800s. Christianity becomes legal and the dominant religion in Europe. Copies of the canon remain limited, as does knowledge. The invention of Gutenberg's printing press changes that, and becomes one impetus for the Protestant Reformation, Luther's 95 Theses, and so on. Late 1800s to early 1900s. E.W. Bullinger, and others, write. Their books are later plagiarized by VPW. 1942. According to VPW, God told him that He would teach him His Word like it hasn't been known since the First Century, if he would teach it to others. Some time later, VPW began adding that he asked God to confirm this by letting him see snow-which he did. (Either a vision or a miracle of snow.) No independent corroboration exists of any snow or vision, and VPW later showed a willingness to invent miraculous snowstorms when it suited his purpose. VPW later went on to form TWI, which had organized classes, a hierarchy, centralized organization, a mandatory tithe, and study in the Bible. ============== Ok, people, what happened when? When was he canned from that church in Van Wert? When was his supposed mission trip to India and the keys to the city, and the healing at Jubbulpore? When did outreach to the coasts happen? How'd Heefner and Doop enter and leave the scene? When did he first take BG Leonard's class, and when did PFAL start running? When did the 2nd Corps run, and around when did LCM climb the ladder? For that matter, when did RFR climb the ladder? How about the other BOT/BOD members?

Let's see.... Salaries... Salaries for the most part have always been subsistence wages on grounds, unless you had "juice". So, how many people on grounds still have "juice"? (Everybody else's wages barely count as a blip on the radar, even all together.) Properties.... Which properties are still owned? Which were sold off? Which are not being maintained? (No staff, but not a moneymaker either.) lcm's class.... Doesn't sound like it's cost-effective compared to the effort of pushing that class. Books... What's still selling? We do know they authorize "special editions" and convince people to get new copies of old books... Advances.... Events like "Advanced Class Specials" still run, it seems. Tithes... I don't know if they're currently pushing 10% or 15% of income. Investments.... These still exist, but I know nothing about them. ==== Can someone who knows something on the above subjects fill in some of the blanks?