WordWolf

It is difficult for me to believe, because it was kept so quiet. Had some of these folks been so "convinced" as one might say, it probably would have been more verbalized, more taught, more established. The fact that these elite kept it quiet, tells me something. Logically, they didn't want this information to get out, because they knew something was wrong with it. Actually, it tells me that they were certain OTHER PEOPLE WOULD THINK IT WAS WRONG. Then it becomes a matter of "well, people whom aren't spiritually-mature enough should not hear about it, since they wouldn't understand, and it would damage their believing. Let's not put a stumblingblock before them. Let them eat their herbs, and we'll eat our meat." I have a suspicion that's EXACTLY the "argument" that was used.

Just as a footnote to that, lcm's famous saying about the tithe ("tenth") is that 10 percent is the bare minimum, and without it, "GOD WON'T EVEN SPIT IN YOUR DIRECTION." I was already out when he started that, so I never got to ask if this was supposed to be some sort of goal-God spitting in our direction. I STILL think it's a good question. But now it's all sweetness and light at twi. If you believe that, meet me in Manhattan. I have this lovely bridge to sell you that leads from it to Brooklyn.

Refiner, In all honesty, You DIDN'T specify in this thread that you were talking about why you stayed so long in YOUR ex-group (JW's) rather than twi. So, someone reading ONLY this thread would clearly read it as you saying you were involved in twi, and left later. Some of us were involved in other threads where you made that clear. Not EVERYBODY follows those threads. Please review your posts briefly to help avoid innocent misunderstandings. On the other hand, the GSC has had a long tradition (longer than the GSC, really) of having WayGB and infiltraitors from twi show up, lie, attempt to gain the confidence of people here, and attempt to derail threads or learn secrets of our personal lives. Paranoia's part of the game here, since spying and duplicity are part of the game here. People have learned to be paranoid. (Me, I'm nobody twi should care about, identity-wise, but few here know my name, and few know my face-and those have met me in person. Others here DO have twi searching for them.) So, look forward to a little paranoia here. We worked hard for it, we owe it to ourselves, and we refuse to deprive ourselves of it, even for you. ;)-->

Well, "officially," twi never publicly taught that fornication and adultery were permitted. The Christian Family & Sex class officially said it was wrong, but did not spend significant amounts of time on it. That class was too busy covering things like slang terms for body parts, and showing stills from some Swedish import film or something. Most of that class really wasn't about anything but sex, but this name was stuck on it anyway. It was STILL the only class I was embarassed to say the name of, even when I was in. So, if you listened to tapes, or read books, you'd think twi was officially against it. If you read and listened a lot closer, you'd have had some questions about the peculiar phrasing of certain things. For example, "sin" was redefined as "broken fellowship." As Raf points out, "broken fellowship" is a CONSEQUENCE of sin, not the sin itself. However, thus redefined, sin sounds a lot less important. Further, sin in general is softened further with the "no condemnation" stuff, which was taken to mean exactly what it was MEANT to mean-if you do something wrong, but don't condemn yourself, hey, God's cool like that. Jesus paid the price for the sin already, so, everything's jake. So, yes, it was a "ministry" that only those "spiritually mature enough to handle it" were allowed to partake of. According to a number of eyewitnesses, willing participants, unwilling participants, victims, and drugged people, this was most common directly at hq. The original ranks of people were drawn from both coasts during the Jesus People movement, when "free love" was going around. Some of us think that was INTENTIONAL-that Christians who had been thinking sex was ok to pass around like a pack of cigarettes were the primary target of the founders of twi (especially the Founder). Others think this was a fringe benefit he discovered early on, and decided to take advantage of. What did this mean in a practical sense? The average Joe Believer had no idea this was happening. People who had made committments to join the way corpse or work on grounds as staff, making the ministry their lives, were sorted into 3 categories: A) those not spiritual enough to handle it B) those spiritual enough to be let in on it C) those spiritual enough to be on the receiving end So, years after some incidents, there have been many Christians who love God who put together the odd behaviour of some of the higher-ups and some young women on staff who had mysterious nervous breakdowns, or left the grounds suddenly. Some Christians at the time were told by the victims and had a hard time accepting that supposed leaders of God's people could treat their flock like disposable goods, and some refused to believe the victims on that basis. Some STILL don't believe all the people who've come forth. The concept of "cognitive dissonance" can be seen here. It can be monstrously difficult to go from respecting someone as God's rep on earth to believing he'd rape a Christian woman, and some can't do it. On grounds, that was the work of a small cabal. Some have pointed out that the "From Birth to the Corps" autobiographies required for all way corpse applicants were most likely used to help sort the corps. "Oh, you were raped as a teenager, and now have trouble trusting men? Honey, all you need is the right man to show you how beautiful sex can be.." The "right men" in these cases were married men, usually, and had no compunctions about orchestrating an elaborate scenario where the woman had no idea what was planned, and had no idea she was about to be drugged. There are other incidents that involve women sleeping and receiving (lambano) an unpleasant surprise as a guy decided to help himself. Some of these occurred at hq, and some of them occurred on the road. What made it work so well was that this cabal covered for each other. There were WOMEN in this cabal, also-helping procure other women and facilitate their little surprises. Thus, a woman might tell another that a certain leader (vpw, lcm whoever) wanted to meet with her to discuss, oh, let's say, movement of The Word in her hometown. Then she'd lead her off to an RV or other comfortably appointed, yet isolated location, where the mog or moglet was waiting. Then comes a few minutes of chat about the movement of The Word in her hometown. "Here, have some wine-I hate to drink alone." Then things proceed from there. I am personally baffled as to how some women could knowingly help orchestrate this, but perhaps it's better my brain can't wrap itself around that one. BTW, it is certainly possible that some of the women were consenting to this- that they either enthusiastically endorsed their own seduction (making it a seduction rather than a molestation/rape scenario). Some women were so loyal that they trusted every word out of vpw or lcm's mouth, and if he just said this wasn't really a sin, then, by golly, it must not be. You've already read some of the words used to convince women this was acceptable to God. Some of us question just how "consentual" that can be, given the position of trust these men were in. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/editorial/not-an-affair.htm Women who weren't quite so enthusiastic to endorse their own molestation or rape often were quietly sent out of the corpse and off grounds, and effectively disappeared from twi, while stories of them being possessed or whatever covered the tracks of the cabal. A few seem to have committed suicide, which REALLY dropped them from sight. This worked until the internet came along.... Who was in on it? Well, MANY people have come forth about vpw. MANY people have come forth about lcm, who was fired for the multiple lawsuits. (He wasted money on lawyers, and committed the sin of getting caught.) At least one woman said that Uncle Harry's first action on meeting her IN PUBLIC AND STANDING NEXT TO VPW was to cop a feel off her. It's possible she was lying-I'm not prepared to accept that, especially since it fits the whole scenario too well. Men in power though that power entitled them to help themselves to the women. If you had sat thru pfal, you would have seen vpw mention the incident of Nathan the prophet confronting David about the incident with Bathsheba. (Had sex with her, then had her husband killed to cover his tracks.) vpw's explanation was..original, to say the least. He said that, "technically, all the women in the kingdom belonged to the king." This was a VERY peculiar statement. First off all, you will note it does NOT appear in Scripture. No Bible verse was cited for this, for there IS no verse for this. The Old Testament laws are very clear on adultery being a sin. There is NO verse saying the king is exempt from being charged for any sin he committed, nor excused from having sin imputed when he committed it. The concept was extra-Biblical. It's known as the "droit de seigneur" and has been used by pagan tyrants in many places in the world as a prerogative of their office. The Bible does NOT endorse it, nor does it endorse the treating of women as merchandise or without respect. Those who insist on vpw's innocence are unable to explain, using the Bible, WHY this claim was made, why this statement appears in his signature work. So, what happens when a paper-which SHOULD have been a "no duh" issue-comes up saying "the Bible says adultery is wrong?" Well, the highers-up who were "in the know" tried to hush it up. That's VERY peculiar behaviour for a Christian to have. It's also been said later, by some, that if they weren't an eyewitness to the alleged rapes/molestations/whatever, that they don't believe them, or they don't believe they were non-consentual, or that it was done intentionally, with the intent of "toughening the women up spiritually" or other things. Mind you, that's just from posts I've read HERE. So, there is some room for disagreement here. Almost all agree the Bible says adultery is wrong. A few think the incidents were almost all consentual. A few think they didn't happen. A few think that ALL leaders abuse their office, so this should be expected. Feel free to make up your own mind.

Graven image: any symbol used in worship or connected with a church. Includes crosses, statues of saints, and so on. Condemned at great length especially by lcm. Is NEVER used of the statue of Timothy in the auditorium, the sculpture of Elijah, Elisha and the bull in the auditorium, and is especially never used of the ugly statuettes of vpw inflicted on the rank-and-file in the 90's. crucifix: condemned by twi. Jesus got off the cross and is now ascended. Thus, the image of a crucifix or even a cross is depressing and old news. "If they'd have shot Jesus Christ with a machinegun, they'd all be wearing machineguns."-lcm It's also been said a more honest symbol-if one were to use symbols- would be an empty tomb. Babylon Mystery Religion: a book by Ralph Woodrow, basically a user-friendly version of Alexander Hislop's "The Two Babylons". Both books condemn the Catholic Church for most of its practices. Some of the accusations are legit, some were cobbled together by Hislop. Was carried in the way bookstore and lcm, especially, based a lot of his anti-Catholic diatribes on the contents. the Babylon Connection: a book by Ralph Woodrow, which was NOT carried in the way bookstore. Basically, it's a repudiation of his previous book and Hislop's book, with citations from the Bible and history. Some people refuse to read it and hang onto the previous book.

Graven image: any symbol used in worship or connected with a church. Includes crosses, statues of saints, and so on. Condemned at great length especially by lcm. Is NEVER used of the statue of Timothy in the auditorium, the sculpture of Elijah, Elisha and the bull in the auditorium, and is especially never used of the ugly statuettes of vpw inflicted on the rank-and-file in the 90's. crucifix: condemned by twi. Jesus got off the cross and is now ascended. Thus, the image of a crucifix or even a cross is depressing and old news. "If they'd have shot Jesus Christ with a machinegun, they'd all be wearing machineguns."-lcm It's also been said a more honest symbol-if one were to use symbols- would be an empty tomb. Babylon Mystery Religion: a book by Ralph Woodrow, basically a user-friendly version of Alexander Hislop's "The Two Babylons". Both books condemn the Catholic Church for most of its practices. Some of the accusations are legit, some were cobbled together by Hislop. Was carried in the way bookstore and lcm, especially, based a lot of his anti-Catholic diatribes on the contents. the Babylon Connection: a book by Ralph Woodrow, which was NOT carried in the way bookstore. Basically, it's a repudiation of his previous book and Hislop's book, with citations from the Bible and history. Some people refuse to read it and hang onto the previous book.

"genuine" spiritual suspicion: lcm term. If a leader THINKS you're hiding a problem and has no evidence, he can have you kicked out under this heading. "spiritual anger". lcm term. lcm was fond of screaming and cursing, red-faced, whenever he felt like it and had the microphone. The excuse he gave that made it ok was "spiritual anger". "present truth". In the Bible, it means "the truth is here." lcm made it mean "this week's truth, as opposed to last week's truth, which is an old wineskin." "old wineskin": lcm term. Any policy, class, doctrine, book, tape, prop, or term no longer in use in twi. Must be avoided as if it never existed, much like the "unpersons" in George Orwell's 1984. fornicator: anyone having sex out of wedlock, who has a title below Limb Leader. Is never used of higher-ups. "self-willed b*tch"-any women who refused to sexually service a mog, and managed to escape his clutches (not drugged and not raped.) May also be called "possessed", "lesbian", "fag hag", "evil", etc. tobacco: a substance later corps were not allowed to use, but was harmless when vpw chain-smoked and had nothing to do with his cancer. pets: things that are not allowed, as they take up time and money that should be given to twi. The bod is exempted from this policy. "God will cover": doctrine that leadership must be supported no matter how outrageous the policy or demand, since God's got your back if you obey mindlessly.

"genuine" spiritual suspicion: lcm term. If a leader THINKS you're hiding a problem and has no evidence, he can have you kicked out under this heading. "spiritual anger". lcm term. lcm was fond of screaming and cursing, red-faced, whenever he felt like it and had the microphone. The excuse he gave that made it ok was "spiritual anger". "present truth". In the Bible, it means "the truth is here." lcm made it mean "this week's truth, as opposed to last week's truth, which is an old wineskin." "old wineskin": lcm term. Any policy, class, doctrine, book, tape, prop, or term no longer in use in twi. Must be avoided as if it never existed, much like the "unpersons" in George Orwell's 1984. fornicator: anyone having sex out of wedlock, who has a title below Limb Leader. Is never used of higher-ups. "self-willed b*tch"-any women who refused to sexually service a mog, and managed to escape his clutches (not drugged and not raped.) May also be called "possessed", "lesbian", "fag hag", "evil", etc. tobacco: a substance later corps were not allowed to use, but was harmless when vpw chain-smoked and had nothing to do with his cancer. pets: things that are not allowed, as they take up time and money that should be given to twi. The bod is exempted from this policy. "God will cover": doctrine that leadership must be supported no matter how outrageous the policy or demand, since God's got your back if you obey mindlessly.

A bunch of his doozies are available for reading in the GSC archives... Y2K-prepare for the end of the world. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/html-docs/y2k.html More on WW III http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/html...sts04-25-99.htm Pregnancy Policy (but not one on fornication, imagine that...) http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/html...s/pregnant.html Spittle-flecked diatribe on homosexuals http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/html...omo-excerpt.htm slave-labour/staff handbook http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/html...7-98hqstaff.htm I like how the end basically says believers can't visit hq for a few days as a vacation after spending 15-20% of salary on twi. Loyalty demand http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/html...lty-excerpt.htm lcm, of all people, says wayfers can't accept gifts http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/corp...riberytape.html This is where he threatens to run all the Limbs himself. Various comments-how to do funerals, stay out of politics (funny-vpw didn't stay out), and "genuine spiritual suspicion" http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/corp.../cn10-12-94.htm lcm, sex maniac, complains the teens are sex maniacs. (Mr Pot, may I introduce the Kettles...) http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/corp.../cn09-28-94.htm "Spirit is thicker than blood." Last, but not least, austerity measures as lcm's dumb ideas slash the income of twi. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/corp...es/3-11-98.html "If earthly families want to help or offer to help financially, then it's okay." Um, weren't we avoiding non-twi family, and refusing all gifts?

Just out of curiousity.... What would you say about someone who knows what Jesus' favourite reference material is, what he expects to teach out of? I'm very curious.

How the HECK can you RATE operation of manifestation of the spirit? Is there a meter for how good your "discerning of spirits" is?

For those of you who never read "Passing of the Patriarch" or Schoenheit's paper on adultery, or lots of other stuff, I just wanted to post the reminder that they're archived and accessible off the GSC's main page. Along with many other neat documents I recommend you read, and audio clips I recommend you listen to (like dm-mrs lcm-explaining that someone died because their family left twi and so on.)

For those of you who never read "Passing of the Patriarch" or Schoenheit's paper on adultery, or lots of other stuff, I just wanted to post the reminder that they're archived and accessible off the GSC's main page. Along with many other neat documents I recommend you read, and audio clips I recommend you listen to (like dm-mrs lcm-explaining that someone died because their family left twi and so on.)

no kidding ? we all should have gotten straight A's if that was the standard. LMAO.... I, for one, am curious how well vpw-the REAL one and not the idealized, idolized image many people built up of him-would have held up to this standard. I'm guessing it included things like the 2-drink maximum, regular exercise, witnessing to people, and so on, since those are things the corpse was expected to do.

Why do I ever think lcm even came up with the STUPID things on his own? He couldn't even make up the MORONIC sayings on his own! The phrase "athletes of the spirit" was ripped off the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.... Here's something I just found when I remembered the EXACT way the sentence went..... ================================== This is from the Official Website of the Baltimore Ravens, http://www.baltimoreravens.com September 2, 2002. GASH ADDS TO RAVENS' POWER SURGE. By Adam H. Beasley. Sam Gash has a brutally simple philosophy to playing foorball. "Go until you hear glass break," Gash said. That's the goal. That truly is the goal. I think that's what Alan [Ricard] does and that's what I've been doing for a while." Gash, the 11th-year fullback who re-signed with the Ravens over the Labor Day weekend, has made his name in the NFL with that ethos. Now, he's trying his best to pass it along to his successor. =========================================================== I STILL don't know what it means, but at least now I suspect it has something to do with being a run-blocker in football.

I'm not sure that that was dumb. In a lot of cases, it's quite true. It was "Weakness ALWAYS brings down strength." Often, when you spot qualifiers like "every time", "always", "never", or "none", you spot an error right next to it.

Mark and Avoid/M & A: started by lcm in his 1989/1990 "line in the sand". It's the process of kicking out a dissenter and trying to pretend they don't exist. It's based on a twisting of one verse in Romans. (In the Jehovah's Witnesses, this is called being "disfellowshipped".) Christmas: Trick question. Jesus was born in September. The holiday named for attending mass in honour of his birth (Christ Mass, like Candlemas) was, according to lcm, named instead for the killing of the innocents by Herod, the massacre. Therefore, lcm has called it "Christ massacre", among other things. Like most holidays, it was renamed-in this case, Household Holiday, or "Ho-Ho". Easter: Known in twi as Resurrection Sunday. Uncle Harry Day/Burn the Chaff Day: named after vpw's brother Harry. It was started as a day to destroy anything interfering between you and God, which is set afire. Can include books as well as slips of paper with personal issues written on them, or anything you can idolize, really. Cancer: as explained by vpw in his pfal advanced class, cancer involves the presence of a devil, as it "has a life of its own". (So does a fungus.) This made it a major embarassment when vpw got cancer, so his illness and cause of death were kept a secret from the rank and file. (corrected Harry's connection.)

Mark and Avoid/M & A: started by lcm in his 1989/1990 "line in the sand". It's the process of kicking out a dissenter and trying to pretend they don't exist. It's based on a twisting of one verse in Romans. (In the Jehovah's Witnesses, this is called being "disfellowshipped".) Christmas: Trick question. Jesus was born in September. The holiday named for attending mass in honour of his birth (Christ Mass, like Candlemas) was, according to lcm, named instead for the killing of the innocents by Herod, the massacre. Therefore, lcm has called it "Christ massacre", among other things. Like most holidays, it was renamed-in this case, Household Holiday, or "Ho-Ho". Easter: Known in twi as Resurrection Sunday. Uncle Harry Day/Burn the Chaff Day: named after vpw's brother Harry. It was started as a day to destroy anything interfering between you and God, which is set afire. Can include books as well as slips of paper with personal issues written on them, or anything you can idolize, really. Cancer: as explained by vpw in his pfal advanced class, cancer involves the presence of a devil, as it "has a life of its own". (So does a fungus.) This made it a major embarassment when vpw got cancer, so his illness and cause of death were kept a secret from the rank and file. (corrected Harry's connection.)

Adultery: a subject barely addressed in twi. See John Schoneheit's paper, in the GSC documents section. Behind the scenes, it was said by leaders that it was fine so long as you were "spiritual enough to handle it". Abortion: (see adultery). According to twi, a subject the Bible neither endorses nor condemns. twi claimed to have no policy on abortion. However, the implications of what they DID say were that it was not against the Bible, therefore permissible. They teach that, until the child takes his/her first breath, he/she is not technically alive, and it's not murder. (By implication, there's nothing wrong with "killing" him/her at before that.) Some people see a connection between twi's stance on adultery and on abortion, since abortion's a "convenient" way for an serial adulterer to cover his/her tracks. Women who were currently in the way corpse were pressured in various ways to NOT carry a child to term, since it would be a distraction and inconvenience to the program. "Hunt Close"-a book on training hunting dogs. It basically advocates rewarding the dog for doing what you want, and pummelling him when he misbehaves. vpw recommended this book for people raising dogs, and people raising children. "Myth of the Six Million"-a book claiming the Holocaust was wildly exaggerated. Recommended by vpw and carried in the way bookstore. "The Thirteenth Tribe"-a book claiming that modern "Jews" are in no way connected genetically to Jews in the Bible. "Judean"-term used in twi to refer to Jews. Antisemitism: A doctrine not officially endorsed by twi. However, seemed to fit harmoniously with vpw's statements about the Holocaust, recommended books, etc. "Bless Patrol": on-grounds twi personnel designated for security.

Adultery: a subject barely addressed in twi. See John Schoneheit's paper, in the GSC documents section. Behind the scenes, it was said by leaders that it was fine so long as you were "spiritual enough to handle it". Abortion: (see adultery). According to twi, a subject the Bible neither endorses nor condemns. twi claimed to have no policy on abortion. However, the implications of what they DID say were that it was not against the Bible, therefore permissible. They teach that, until the child takes his/her first breath, he/she is not technically alive, and it's not murder. (By implication, there's nothing wrong with "killing" him/her at before that.) Some people see a connection between twi's stance on adultery and on abortion, since abortion's a "convenient" way for an serial adulterer to cover his/her tracks. Women who were currently in the way corpse were pressured in various ways to NOT carry a child to term, since it would be a distraction and inconvenience to the program. "Hunt Close"-a book on training hunting dogs. It basically advocates rewarding the dog for doing what you want, and pummelling him when he misbehaves. vpw recommended this book for people raising dogs, and people raising children. "Myth of the Six Million"-a book claiming the Holocaust was wildly exaggerated. Recommended by vpw and carried in the way bookstore. "The Thirteenth Tribe"-a book claiming that modern "Jews" are in no way connected genetically to Jews in the Bible. "Judean"-term used in twi to refer to Jews. Antisemitism: A doctrine not officially endorsed by twi. However, seemed to fit harmoniously with vpw's statements about the Holocaust, recommended books, etc. "Bless Patrol": on-grounds twi personnel designated for security.

You may not want to argue it, but this IS a doctrinal issue, and not "About The Way." You're certainly entitled to your own opinion. I, however, would like to know these unnamed "other scholarly writings" that you're basing your beliefs on. You could base them on the latest issue of Spider-Man if you really want to, but it would NOT be a sound basis for a belief. Similarly, there are more than a few books out there masquerading as scholarly writings, so you might want to know if you ARE basing your entire belief system on something far less credible than the Bible it seeks to undermine. What do I believe? I believe the Bible to be a credible account of Jesus' teachings and ministry, and I believe Jesus to be The Messiah, The Son of God. Well, you asked.

Right. The WayGB is a GSC term for the unnamed "thought police" of twi. Besides policing their ranks for subversives, they also read the GSC posts and chatroom, and maintain files on posters here in an attempt to "out" current followers ("innies") who post here anonymously. SIT: Speaking in tongues/speak in tongues. (Already explained.) "other Christians". All Christians except twi are to be viewed as utter incompetents who are shackled by their denominations' traditions and teachings. Also referred to as "churchianity". "would you be blessed to": Wayspeak. In English, "I want you to do the following..."

Right. The WayGB is a GSC term for the unnamed "thought police" of twi. Besides policing their ranks for subversives, they also read the GSC posts and chatroom, and maintain files on posters here in an attempt to "out" current followers ("innies") who post here anonymously. SIT: Speaking in tongues/speak in tongues. (Already explained.) "other Christians". All Christians except twi are to be viewed as utter incompetents who are shackled by their denominations' traditions and teachings. Also referred to as "churchianity". "would you be blessed to": Wayspeak. In English, "I want you to do the following..."

How did that go, Raf? "Every year, they gather together to refuse the Lord's Supper." Something like that.... Manof1000Names, The calculations are to make it look like you know something special and secret, that you have a shortcut to the Almighty, that you're on God's Speed-dial list. It works best if nobody can understand what you're saying. vpw did much the same by restricting access to his materials so no one could pay attention to that man behind the curtain. lcm's entire wap class was an exercise in this.