WordWolf

Most Christian organizations lean a bit towards the "ounce of prevention" point of view.... So, if you were going into the corpse or were in the corpse (or the relative equivalent thereof) they'd be pretty clear on "NO FOOLING AROUND!", not "NO PREGNANCIES!". I mean, if Christians are taught and expected to adhere to Biblical standards- and their teachers and instructors set the example- there will BE no fooling around (sex). Or, at least, it will be majorly discouraged, which will cut the numbers down. With no fooling around, there's no risk of pregnancy. This saves everyone all the stress, money issues and problems connected with even CONSIDERING abortions. Instead, an efficient little system operated very quietly, taking women to get abortions, counselling them to get them, and moving on. If rationalizations and situational ethics hadn't become the order of the day, (and leadership hadn't set the example in abusing their offices for sex) then unwanted pregnancies would have been far rarer. Now, that leaves us with married couples, who, we presume, ARE fooling around. In the US, in the 20th century, avoiding pregnancy is NOT a big mystery. If a couple doesn't want to have kids, then can easily (except for exceptions) avoid having them. Let's say a married couple did want a kid, and the wife got pregnant. Why counsel her to abort the baby (or future baby) rather than carry to term? The reasons seem to center around the convenience of the organization rather than anything else. Further, if someone left the corpse, there was SUCH a stigma painted on them BY corpse. So, abort this baby, or be kicked out of the corpse and be stigmatized. That's not a sound choice, but it was the ONLY choice offered too many people in the corpse. Did they have a choice? By definition, yes. It was a trick question with 2 bad options, but they could have picked either.

MJ replied "house is a rockin I do not know of any ." (Then went on about something unrelated to the thread.) House replied "No where in the Word does it back it up. Therefore leaders had nothing when thinking it appropriate to abort a child in order to fulfill a commitment to God." "Thus it was man's decision to lay that unbelievably cruel rap on their open-hearted people." MJ replied "twi did not believe abortion was killing anything. It was a medical procedure to terminate a pregnancy, life began at the moment a baby would take a breath. If no life then no killing...and I'm the one not getting this?" YES, MJ, you ARE the one not getting this. First of all, as Goey spent several pages trying to get across to you, it is evil to use the bludgeon of "Do it or God will hate you" to coerce people to do things, no matter what the things are. Second of all is the issue at hand of what the Bible said, what twi said, and how twi handled it. Look, if a group went to you, and leaned on you to switch to only using black ink pens "otherwise God will be displeased with you", and claimed that if you didn't switch to black ink, "You're betraying your commitments to God", that would be evil. (Stupid, too, but that's irrelevant.) You then have two choices, neither of them good: A) accept coercion and switch to black ink B) retain use of blue ink, and live with ostracism from leaders who claim that you are displeasing God. Yes, of course you have a choice about which course of action to take. You can choose to be ostracized, thrown off grounds, and made a pariah. Of course you can. However, YOU SHOULD NEVER BE PLACED IN THAT POSITION. Leaders of God's people should not coerce or browbeat God's people in order to get them to agree. Men of God ought not to do such things.

"piffle": GSC term. Another name for PFAL.

"piffle": GSC term. Another name for PFAL.

I'm sure that this platitude will be of GREAT comfort to the next innocent, young, idealistic person who's molested, raped, or pressured into an abortion by a person claiming to represent God. "Well, now you know for next time. Next time, be more careful." That's going to go SO far in their healing process. (Reminds me of "the Old Philosopher".) If it's directed to those who suffered in twi and have escaped and are looking back, then I think the natural response would be "no sh*!" Of COURSE they know NOW not to trust people like that no matter what....

You might want to review the "Registry Keys" thread. We talked a lot of security and stuff there.

"third-aid". twi term. The idea was that, before any medical attention was given like an aspirin, you would pray, then ask someone else to pray (steps 1 and 2). This has nothing to do with the 100% reimbursements the bot/bod has for LARGE amounts of medical attention.

"third-aid". twi term. The idea was that, before any medical attention was given like an aspirin, you would pray, then ask someone else to pray (steps 1 and 2). This has nothing to do with the 100% reimbursements the bot/bod has for LARGE amounts of medical attention.

Then download all the Windows critical updates, AdAware, Spybot (now on 1.3) firewall, antivirus, and update them all. Remember to run the scans and updates periodically.

Well, when I was in, I gave up attendance at a big collegiate invitational with my team. When I was in, I also gave up TWI for "The Word". That's how I saw it, and I would have left alone if nobody else did.

Oldies -- if I were to hold you at gunpoint, and say something like "your money, or your life", you would have a choice. If I were to hold you at gunpoint and say something like "step into speeding traffic, or else", you would have a choice. And if I were to handcuff you, and toss you into a lake saying "sink, or swim", again you would have a choice. The two "constants" in these hypothetical situations are the fact that either way you suffer harm, but _you have a choice_. You say that a "choice" was offered to those women, yet I see it as a choice that is as "desirable" as the ones I am postulating here, for you. --> If I were to be confronted by "church" authority for being a lying, drunk, thief that needs to "clean up his act" before resuming fellowship with that church, that would be a "choice" I could live with. That is NOT the case that Rascal, and others have stated here. The "choice" offered to them was indeed a "choice", but either way they went would be a lose/lose situation, therefore not a _viable choice_ at all. They were told to "sink or swim", and given the coercion that twi used to protect those in the upper echelons, it was the same as if a gun were held to their heads. Now I am curious as to why you got kicked out, since you stated you did not live up to the standards expected. Hmmmm??? I am guessing that whatever you did, it did not include the murder of an innocent life, so I guess that makes you less of a sinner, eh? I wasn't going to say anything here, but I hate to see you ride rough-shod over Rascal, and spout ignorant, hurtful words that are in no way Godly, or edifying. I said it in another thread about lcm, but these words can apply to you too, if you do not repent from these attacks. And that is--- "Your words are coming from the south end of a north bound horse." God, and Jesus Christ are in the business of forgiveness. Sign up today. :)-->

Sorry to respond so late, I never check in here.... As of 1999/2000, she was in Manhattan. I haven't been in touch with her in recent years.

Personally, I think it would be a big help if the directors had at least had a quick read-thru of the whole series before directing the current movie. Based on the scene with Lucius Malfoy at the end of the 2nd movie, I'm certain somebody who's at least read thru book 4 (5 probably wasn't out during filming) was working on it, possibly the director. From what I've heard, the 3rd movie glosses over the scenes involving the Marauder's Map-where it came from, and Fred and George's comments about it, and why another character knows how to work it as well. I am, however, looking forward to seeing the first scene with a boggart in it. ============= Trefor, all my commentary was off-the-cuff. I probably blew the spelling of some names, too, but I didn't care enough to check. I keep blanking at the name of the rail station the Hogwarts Express departs from. (It arrives at Hogsmeade, but that's not in the movies yet, I'll bet.) I should have remembered the name of the King's Cross Rail Station for another reason. It was a Benny Hill episode when he was a game show host trying to sabotage one contestant. (A "name that tune" show.) The clue: "This song reminds us of a monkey on a fast train." The contestant says he can name it in one note. The pianist plays the note, mouthing "Ali Baba on the Moon." Contestant: "Ali Baba on the moon." Announcer: "No, it's 'I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas.' " Contestant: *flustered* "Hey...that's got nothing to do with a.... where does the train 'come in'?" Announcer: "King's Cross." Contestant: "..and what about the monkey?" Announcer: "That's where you come in." ======================================== Those of you who haven't seen them yet, I recommend catching the online flash cartoons of the "Potter Puppet Pals." Part I: "Bothering Snape." Part II: "Trouble at Hogwarts." The premise is-what would Harry Potter look like, if it was performed by insane puppeteers? There's also one somewhere involving Harry, Dumbledore, and the Mirror of Erised from the first movie/book, but it's not as funny.

I never heard the "fruit" thing. Might it have been a local expression only?

I never heard the "fruit" thing. Might it have been a local expression only?

In '89, I thought the "tip of the iceberg" was ALL the problems. So, I thought that some of the top people could fix it. About 1 month later, I got the letter from hq saying that the people I thought would fix everything had just been fired for being evil. That's when I knew it was almost hopeless, and made plans to exit.

Who said they'd ADMIT anything? They'd just make up some bs excuse like they ALWAYS do that makes it look like they meant this all along....

Here's some of the names and some background on the school... Harry lives (summers, anyway) with the Dursleys on Privet Drive- Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia, cousin Dudley. (Did I switch the aunts' names?) Diagon Alley: the wizard's bazaar, where you can buy cool stuff. The Hogwarts Express: the train that goes to Hogwarts. It leaves from Platform 9 3/4. Hogwarts is a 7-year school. Harry starts his first year at the beginning of the first movie/book. Students are required to wear the school uniform (robes),and keep track of their wands at all times. They are allowed to bring a toad, cat or owl-most of them want owls, since mail travels by owl among wizards. Professor Albus Dumbledore is the School's Headmaster. He's been there a very long time, serving as the Transfigurations teacher under the previous headmaster, Dippet. Professor Minerva McGonagal is the Transfigurations teacher, and head of Gryffindor House. Professor Severus Snape is the Potions teacher, and head of Slytherin House. Professor Flitwick is the Charms teacher, and head of Ravenclaw House. (I think.) Professor Sprout is the Herbology/plants teacher, and head of Hufflepuff House. Madame Pomfrey is the school nurse/doctor. Argus Filch is the porter. Mrs Norris is his cat. Rubeus Hagrid is Keeper of Keys and Grounds. Professor Sybil Trelawney is the Divination teacher. (Kind-of.) Students at Hogwarts are sorted into 4 Houses. Gryffindor is known for bravery. Slytherin is known for cunning. Ravenclaw is known for intelligence. Hufflepuff is known for loyalty. Families usually (but not always) end up in the same House. (All the Weaselys are/were Gryffindors.) The Houses are named for the 4 wizards who founded the school: Godric Gryffindor, Salazar Slytherin, Rowena Ravenclaw, Helga Hufflepuff. Students are accountable to their Houses, and their assets and shortcomings can cause their House to gain or lose points against the other Houses. Most of their time is usually spent with others of their House. Fred and George Weasley, the Weasley twins, are known for great skill at practical jokes and have handy skills like lockpicking. They're probably one of the two cleverest groups of tricksters ever to attend Hogwarts. Harry Potter's closest friends are: Hermione Granger (Gryffindor), a smart girl born of a non-wizarding family ("Muggles"), Ron Weasley (Gryffindor), a loyal friend fond of the Chudley Cannons Quidditch team (think the Cubbies) and not at all fond of spiders, Hagrid, the huge groundskeeper, and (surprise!) Dumbledore. Harry Potter's "enemies" are: Lord Voldemort,the evil wizard, Draco Malfoy (Slytherin), and his friends, Crabbe and Goyle, and Lucius Malfoy, Draco's dad, who's rich and well-connected. Anyone seeking to gain favour in Voldemort's good graces (even if he IS dead) would seek to "finish the job" he started with Harry, thus killing him. Sirius Black is one of the most notorious prisoners in Azkaban Prison, the wizard prison. His capture included an incident involving the death of over a dozen people, and earned Peter Pettigrew a posthumous commendation. (His family was given his finger, which is all of him that could be recovered.)

Mostly the micromanagement. That, and twi's tendency to encourage elitism and superiority complexes for leaders at all levels.

Oh, I dunno, Oldiesman.... Most Christian organizations lean a bit towards the "ounce of prevention" point of view.... So, if you were going into the corpse or were in the corpse (or the relative equivalent thereof) they'd be pretty clear on "NO FOOLING AROUND!", not "NO PREGNANCIES!". I mean, if Christians are taught and expected to adhere to Biblical standards- and their teachers and instructors set the example- there will BE no fooling around (sex). Or, at least, it will be majorly discouraged, which will cut the numbers down. With no fooling around, there's no risk of pregnancy. This saves everyone all the stress, money issues and problems connected with even CONSIDERING abortions. Instead, an efficient little system operated very quietly, taking women to get abortions, counselling them to get them, and moving on. If rationalizations and situational ethics hadn't become the order of the day, (and leadership hadn't set the example in abusing their offices for sex) then unwanted pregnancies would have been far rarer. Now, that leaves us with married couples, who, we presume, ARE fooling around. In the US, in the 20th century, avoiding pregnancy is NOT a big mystery. If a couple doesn't want to have kids, then can easily (except for exceptions) avoid having them. Let's say a married couple did want a kid, and the wife got pregnant. Why counsel her to abort the baby (or future baby) rather than carry to term? The reasons seem to center around the convenience of the organization rather than anything else. Further, if someone left the corpse, there was SUCH a stigma painted on them BY corpse. So, abort this baby, or be kicked out of the corpse and be stigmatized. That's not a sound choice, but it was the ONLY choice offered too many people in the corpse. Did they have a choice? By definition, yes. It was a trick question with 2 bad options, but they could have picked either.

I took the liberty of looking up criticisms of twi back then, and the criticisms were so poorly done that they only increased my confidence in the organization. twi claimed that other Christians were sloppy and unprofessional, and here came their critics, as sloppy and unprofessional as I might have imagined. I saw a footnote about the weapons charge-and its explanation-in one place, and a few others that made it sound like people patrolled grounds with rifles at the ready. I saw claims of coercion-but I hadn't seen any back home nor in brief visits to hq. I saw doctrinal criticisms that were sloppy enough to refute myself at the time. Mostly, I saw wildly-misinformed opinion in print. I read that the pfal class that I had scraped up $40 for was $200 (even in recently-released books.) I read that pfal students were not allowed to take notes-but my syllabus is COVERED with them. I read complaints about doctrinal differences "when we know they're wrong"-but with no explanation, or a bad explanation, as to WHY we know they're wrong. I concluded that if that was the BEST criticism they could come up with, twi must have something to it. This confirmed what I already thought. My favourite criticism was in the Life Magazine story, "The Groovy Christians of Rye", on the wows in Rye, NY. One paragraph about people underlining things in their Bible was followed by a comment by a local. "Sometimes, I almost wish they'd go back to smoking a little dope. I mean, drugs I can understand, but this? This is weird." This reminded me of a line from one of Tom Burke's songs: "He's stopped snorting coke and now he's reading the Bible, he's my little lamb who's strayed from the fold..." Wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't the inspiration for the line, even. So, the negatives I heard were poorly organized, and often misinformation.

I miss always having a simple answer to any question. (Growing up sucks that way, sometimes.) I miss the ROA phenomenon of meeting total strangers who had no titles whatsoever and just wanted to bless the HECK out of each other. (That was almost completely gone by '89, right after lcm drew his line in the sand.)

I, for one, am eagerly awaiting the third movie's arrival on tv. Cindy, feel free to start a thread in this forum on theories on the books thru 3. (Otherwise, we'll spoil all the upcoming surprises.) Myself, I think book/movie 1 foreshadows the entire series, especially the opening scene, which is STILL being explained in book 5 (and 6?). I also think that the movies occasionally skip momentary incidents that were important to the stories. Why not include the Sorting Hat's song in the first movie? For those of you who never read the book, the Sorting Hat sings a different song each year just before the sorting begins. Among other things, it briefly explains the four Hogwarts Houses. (The movies are REALLY giving Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff a raw deal.) How about the Weasley brothers mocking rumours Harry is the heir of Slytherin in the second book? They took to marching in front of him in the hallways, intoning dirgefully, "Make way for the Heir of Slytherin...seriously evil wizard coming thru.."

I like it here. I also like it other places I don't visit with you guys. Including under other screen-names. :)--> So, sometimes, yes, but if twi was swallowed up by a hole in the earth, and the GSC was deleted by Paw the next day as he retired to Tibet with the shirt proceeds and a truck of mac and cheese, my heart would go on. :)-->

Feel free to add those first 5 to the other thread, George....