WordWolf

Wordwolf, You may have a point, if the Apostle Paul mentioned Alexander the Coppersmith's sins almost every day, for 20 years. Now maybe some folks would consider endlessly mentioning Alexander's evil works "the introduction of light" oh glow-ray -- but I would call condemnation of that frequency more like mega-preoccupation with evil things of the past, and the endless perpetuation of victim mentality -- as if nothing else matters other than Paul mentioning for decades how he was abused by Alexander. (snip) Amazing how you read that one sentence yet somehow skipped the paragraphs following it, concerning the standards a "faithful minister" are to be held to.

There's a difference between looking towards Christ, and living in denial that others have done wrong. If we were meant to REALLY forget the past, there would BE no Old Testament, since the New would have REPLACED it. The Apostle Paul was well aware that there was a difference between "living in denial of past wrongdoing" and "looking towards the present"- otherwise, we wouldn't know Alexander the coopersmith did him MUCH evil. ====== Those in positions of authority are to be of good moral conduct overall, and BLAMELESS in matters of stewardship. If a steward is found to be UNJUST, then, first of all, he is to no more be steward. There ARE standards to be held in leaders, and you should know where to find them in your sleep. vpw, who failed MISERABLY to live up to those standards, taught about them quite a bit-demonstrating that he UNDERSTOOD them, but chose not to LIVE them. I Timothy 3:1-10. 3:2 "must be blameless" , above reproach. His actions must be meet or exceed reasonable expectations for a leader. 3:2 "husband of one wife" He must not have doctrine or practice of multiple wives, including acting as if it is acceptable to have sexual congress with a multitude of his flock 3:3 "not given to wine" He must not abuse alcohol 3:3 "no striker" He must not be swift to resort to violence or wrath 3:3 "not greedy of filthy lucre" He must not seek to use the family's money for his luxuries 3:3 "patient" He must be patient. 3:3 "not a brawler" He must not be quarrelsome and get into fights. 3:4 "not covetous" He must not seek out the privileges of those in the chief seats, the politicians 3:4 "one that rules well his own house" He devotes sufficient and appropriate time and dedication to his earthly family/household 3:4 "having his children in subjection with all gravity" He takes the job of childraising seriously, determined to do it right- as a result, his children RESPECT him. 3:7 "he must have a good report of them which are without" His reputation in public must be a respectable one. ============ Who here would like to use the above criteria to evaluate the viability of vpw to hold the "office of a bishop", which, as he often agreed, was the list for leaders in the church today? A few people, please. ================

Let's see, what does that mean in English.... *activates twi decoder* "pseudo-Christians" and "anti-Christians" "Pseudo-Christians" means "people who aren't current twi memberfollowers." "messages of animosity" means "messages that weren't rewrites of current HQ tapes". "promoted homosexuality" means "challenged twi's infallibility practice" "old news-very very old 20 year old news". Meaning uncertain. May mean "they exposed the plagiarism and lies of the organization's founder" or "they exposed the rapes and molestations of the organization's founder" or "they exposed the rapes, molestations and lies ruined by the organization's successor, chosen by the organization's founder, from 1985 until a few years ago." or "they exposed the conspiracy and lives ruined by the organization's current leader, in the past decade, who has yet to be indicted." Unsure which. "Most of those people didn't look to the Word of God, instead they focused on people" means "they didn't look the other way like good wayfers when confronted with accounts of their spiritual siblings being raped, molested, taken advantage of, treated as indentured servants, and other acts of malfeasance". "I am not igorant of the past. I lived through it. I know what occurred and why" means "I accept that whatever answers leadership give are true. I refuse to consider evidence or testimony of any kind that might suggest they are lying or incorrect. I refuse to consider the idea that leadership might EVER be less than truthful to me. If I did, they'd destroy my life, and I consider the cost of rebuilding it too great to look outside my cage."

"What's your favorite body of water and describe it in 3 adjectives..." "the human body. "What do I win?" ---- Maybe your reply was entirely a joke, but otherwise your answer missed the question, possibly demonstrating a lack of reading what's written. (Unless it was in jest.)

Then again, Mike, Maybe they think you're wrong about what those instructions mean. Maybe they think your concept of the word "master" is wrong. Maybe they think that what pfal says about pfal is true, and it's KEYS, not holy writ. Maybe they don't think there were snowstorms that vpw kept encountering, either vision or real. Maybe they think God spoke in the Bible, God speaks to each, but God didn't designate vpw as God's first real spokesman since 99 AD. Maybe they don't think pfal is an updated Bible. Maybe they don't think Jesus will be teaching from pfal when he returns. Maybe they don't think Jesus will have the Orange Book in his hand when he returns. Might some, any, or all of those be reasonable options to "they're all deceitful and sleazy"? ======= I hate it when I try to watch a tv show I like, only to discover I end up catching the exact same episode on a repeat each time...

Is your AVG updated to the latest update? (Every few days, there's an update.) You should be able to clean out every virus by using the online antivirus scan one time at http://www.trendmicro.com Which can take an hour. After that, I'd do it once a season to get anything that made it thru your antivirus. From what I've heard, stubborn infections can be stamped out by running antivirus programs and so on while your pc is in safe mode. (If a program is running, it can't delete the program-which is why safe mode, with everything not running, works here. Is your Spybot's "immunization" function on? I hope so. If you want to increase your security, AdAware is free and catches a lot of stuff. Further, you can download another antivirus for use when online or offline. AntiVir is more effective than AVG, if less user-friendly. If you ran it fully while running AVG fully, you'd have system glitches. So, here's what you do.... You download AntiVir, then carefully read the options. Where it has a box checked off for installing the antivirus GUARD/SHIELD, UNcheck that box. Now, you have a program that won't interfere with AVG, but will serve as an active scanner when you switch it on. Make sure ALL your stuff is up-to-date, including your Windows-there's been updates since SP2.

I recommend a software firewall regardless. Since ZoneAlarm and Kerio have decent FREE firewalls, I don't think there's an excuse not to use one. A router's firewall, IIRC, is great for screening incoming traffic, but does NOTHING on outgoing traffic. That means that if something DOES elude your defenses, there's no additional layer of defense. With a software firewall, an attempt by a program to dial out or whatever will be stopped and you'll be notified. Now you know there's a problem program infecting your pc. With the router only, you have no warning. I prefer not to assume ANY program or device is 100% effective.

....and yet, with all your reading of pfal, you STILL miss its testimony about The Word of God, and how reading the English Versions, it is possible to get to The Word of God....

There you go, rewriting history again. Those of us who were here saw exactly what happened. Raf demonstrated that "believing" is not a "law". Then you kept trying to crowbar exceptions into various definitions of the word "law". Then you told him you rejected the meaning of the word "law" as defined by everyone else, and asked him for more definitions. Then Raf, who ALREADY had provided SEVERAL, said it was YOUR TURN, since you claimed to HAVE a definition that worked, and said that you'd refuse to give it, since to give a definition would mean you'd have to remain faithful to it, rather than change the meanings and definitions as you always do. Your response was to refuse to give a definition. Now you're claiming HE dodged the question. (That's as intellectually honest as the claim that Jesus cast out devils by the prince of devils.) Further, HE asked YOU repeatedly. You must be reading a heavily-edited version of your own posts.

If one treated ANY book with the attitude you approach the pfal books, that book would be seen as "perfect" also. pfal IS riddled with errors. Lying about Raf doesn't change that. It doesn't require ANY kind of toolkit to see that the Orange Book gives a standard that something God-given can not have one single error. It doesn't require ANY kind of toolkit to see that early in the book and class, we're told that "all the women in the kingdom belonged to the king." It doesn't take a degree in history to notice that this claim was never substantiated, because it was completely wrong. If it was technically true, Nathan would have had no basis on which to confront King David. If it was historically accurate, it would not contradict all the laws of the Old Testament. Therefore, that claim is an ERROR, and, according to pfal, any book with a factual or doctrinal ERROR is NOT divine inspiration. (This was not an "inksmudge" or an "editing mistake", either-that's exactly what vpw MEANT to say, AND it was WRONG.) Therefore, using the "toolkit" of pfal ITSELF, it failed by its own standards that quickly. This is not a problem to 99.99% of the graduates of pfal, who don't think it was supposed to be divine revelation. An entire book was added, "Christians Should Be Prosperous", written BY vpw for inclusion in the pfal materials. It's main premise and its documentation are both in error-God does not require a tithe now. By pfal's standards, that error-BASED book is NOT divine, but then again, it wasn't claimed to be so. Hiding from the ERRORS, pretending the ERRORS don't exist, and outright LIES and PERSONAL ATTACKS on people who've seen the ERRORS don't change the reality of the errors. You can slap the label "apples" on the pickle-jar, but that doesn't turn the pickles into apples.

Cynic, If you've something of substance to offer in this discussion- as you insist you do, and moreso than all your detractors- can you please offer it and try to keep the "argumentum ad your momium" to a minimum? I'm not even asking you to STOP it- just to present your case and TRY to stick to that. Mind you- this is not intended as a trick. I WANT to read your "argument" if it's got something compelling, or at least worthy of consideration.

Ok.... I know of better (and free) antivirus programs than Norton. I know of better (and free) firewalls than Norton. Do you know of a decent "parental controls" she can use instead of her Norton all-in-one?

Well, it did INCLUDE some keys. I've never said the class was devoid of merit. I object to the thinking that it is the be-all and end-all of merit. Likewise, I understand that the evil actions taken by vpw in ruining the lives of some people queered them off opening a Bible and reading it. I don't think that's the best response, but I understand, and I understand that the healing of their hearts may take a lifetime. Myself, I think I benefitted from the time I spent putting down my Bible, then picking it back up again with fresh perspectives and new ideas. BTW, Mike, I STILL don't think most posters here are going to do homework assignments when you assign them. You might try plain speaking. Then we can agree or disagree, but we can do it plainly.

JustThinking, I'm sure Pat will want to sample this list when he gets out for his website, so let me ask before I forget: If he copies this list to there, is that ok with you?

And all this time I thought dowsing was playing with devil spirits... That's what my copy of "Angels of Light?", recommended reading for Advanced class candidates, says. Must be an old wineskin.

Ditto. I had already figured they were all gone for good, anyway.

Um, she said she likes Norton. Norton and ZoneAlarm, I hear, don't play so nice together. I hear that in this forum, in fact. I like ZA, myself, but she likes Norton. Therefore, Kerio might be a better free firewall for her.

Ok, XP's "firewall"... XP Service Pack 1 has a firewall called "Internet Connection Firewall". It's a toy. It serves to buy you a few minutes while you download a REAL firewall. XP Service Pack 2 has a better firewall. You'll know if you're using that because it comes with a "Security Center" program. That's where a window will show something monitoring your antivirus program and so on. It limits incoming traffic a LOT better than the SP1 thing, but it's not really a "firewall", and it does NOT secure outgoing traffic. "Microsoft security" is an oxymoron, remember this. So, install whatever security programs you want, then switch off the "firewall" in Windows that came with Windows. I've never heard of a firewall that was LESS effective than the Microsoft ones. They were added to the operating system because some people have NO security and even BAD security is better than none at all. Personally, I'm not impressed with Norton, but if you find it works for you and you're happy with it, more power to you.

Here, here!

Socks may have explained it well and clearly, but some people (determined not to see the point) might as well be hearing adults in a Charlie Brown cartoon. Socks makes an excellent point, and some people just get "Wah-WAH-wah-wah-wah."

Please keep in mind, HCW, that Mike is not only disinterested in anything that supports the overwhelming evidence that vpw wrought pfal by his own will and in the interests of making a class with KEYS for Genesis to Revelation. Mike's looking specifically for anything he can isolate from its context, and use to claim that pfal REPLACES Genesis to Revelation. (Which contradicts what the books say.) Please keep in mind that the contents of the books-which he claims to be directly from God in the sense the Bible is- have done nothing to change this point of view-even when the contents directly contradict it. Mike also takes the liberty of mentally rewriting anything HE says, anything YOU say, or anyone ELSE says. For example, he's depicted himself as having been wildly successful in outdebating us and in presenting evidence supporting his position. Mike has also said he's seen that Jesus, when he returns, will have a copy of the orange book in his hand and be teaching from it. When asked if he was joking, he said he'd seen him this way several times. So, HCW, you may respond to Mike however you wish, or NOT respond to Mike however you wish. I thought you'd like a quick word of warning first, however. Let me know if you need some links for some of this stuff.

One story that I heard about the corps.... A guy had a reputation for falling asleep during the loooonnnggg teachings. One time our poor Eutychus was listening to vpw go on (and on.) Once he fell asleep, his neighbor tapped him and whispered "He just asked you to speak in tongues and interpret." Immediately, he sprang to his feet in the middle of the teaching, loud enough for the whole room. " Lo shanta vea lo shanta" (or equivalent). He was interrupted pretty quickly by vpw, who said "Sit down and shut up."

Oh, good. I thought you'd said everything you were going to. Glad there's more to be said.

*reads link* Or DOESN'T stand, as the case may be. Mine is missing, as are some other people's.

Funny. Some time ago, Jeff did a "drive-by posting" on a Christian board I was at doing that very thing. I replied quickly and raised the same issue you did. I'm not sure if he ever visited again or if it was just a true "drive-by". I am aware that the thread died pretty quickly once I asked him what the harm would have been posting a more honest approach. (I posted exactly what I thought he should have posted.) Oh, and please post your Momentus experience, but give it its own thread. :)-->