WordWolf

Oakspear, I believe you're right on the money. I shouldn't have gotten defensive with my SIT beliefs. I am actually open to hearing more. Of course, along with the info. Goey provided I also am examining JE Stiles and BG Leonard books, folks that don't have the same negative baggage as VP. Practically the same stuff but just in case some get turned off by VP... Anyway, this thread is helping me re-examine my beliefs, which is a good thing. :)--> Great! Let us know what you find!

Forgive us if not everyone just believes you on that.

You were answered already. In this thread alone, there's multiple postson pages 6 & 7. It doesn't endear you to others to keep asking the same questions over and over IF THEY HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. That means either A) You disrespect the posters and their posts when they DO answer B) You are unable AND unwilling to understand "what is written". This can be overcome with effort-you are not undertaking that effort. C) You disbelieve the posts-thus calling the posters liars. It surprises you that you people don't play your game? They can read his posts NOW and find out EXACTLY what he believes, as can you. They just can't label them BEFORE reading. This means they have to THINK FOR THEMSELVES. This is not exactly polite discourse. You've been told several times that the proper term is "wiccan", and the terms "wiccan" and "witch" are not synonymous-some people are one OR the other, but not BOTH. Even stated wiccans (who did EXACTLY what you asked) are STILL not answering "good enough" for you-you're claiming they "don't want it known" although they presented their label. You responded to that label by insulting them further- demonstrating you lack the maturity to use labels properly. That having been said, why SHOULD anyone cooperate with you? Sometimes people cooperate with me out of politeness, sometimes because I've earned their respect. You've strained politeness, and earned little respect from anyone except vpw apologists. See why some people cooperate with ME and not YOU? (I also ask a lot less.) I just wonder what else (some) of you are 'hiding' ??

Oakspear responded to "..but the Ford never explained Henry" by saying Bravo, Oakspear.

You know, I knew a guy who had one of those. He was a self-proclaimed psychic. Like vpw, he'd lost the use of one eye. So he, you know, had a glass eye. And a crystal ball. He seemed to think one compensated for the other.

Yes its typically a subtractive process. They subtract and remove the "problem" teachings and reshuffle the remaining ideas "to fit" thereby achieving the proverbial "mathematical exactness and scientific precision" of which "doctor" spoke. Now exactly what teachings they remove or how they reorganize things to "fit" is not known and is most likely a process driven by emotion as opposed to logic or even some "working the word" process. So its like "hey that law of believeing didn't really work as advertised but instead of holding VPW responsible for it we'll just 'throw it out' or at least the sections we don't understand and start over. Isn't god wonderful ?". Now they won't admit that VPW had it all wrong or examine other teachings of his (well what he claimed to be his anyway). They just float VP a pass and knit up the gaping holes in the teaching with some emotional BS to make it sound okay to themselves and others. And of course these people expect others to readily accept this repackaged "lean and mean" truth as if it were what "Doctor really meant for us to have". Its an illness in my opinion. Using TWI as a sole source for everything and not being able to detach from it even when much of what TWI taught still did not result in the "abundant life". Reminds me of II Corinthians 10:12. "For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they, measuring themselves by themselves, and, comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise."

OTHER questions? No, but you'll want to keep quoting this answer when this SAME question keeps coming up over....and over....and over....

Will someone signal me if Irisheyes is still interested in this question when Mike is done? I haven't posted my say on this in a while, and it will be interesting to review it and see if I view things any differently.

I think we did this one already.

Brian Doyle Murray Groundhog Day Andie Mc Dowell

Indiana Jones + Mr Heatmiser + "wax on, wax off" + "duh" plus Van Gogh's "Starry Night". Indy + Heat + Off + Duh + Night "In the Heat of the Night". :)-->

Lies too and traffic jams! and IRS audits! and mimes!

As of right now, Christians are 18% and 44%. Exactly 1/2 would be 50%. 18% plus 44% totals 62%, which is more than 1/2. There's TWO categories of Christian there- one spurns twi's spin, one embraces it. I'm more concerned about the 18% who embrace it than the 11% pagan types. 24% is Atheist or Agnostic, which is 1 in 4.

I'm stumped, but I recognize the "troll". That's "Mr Heatmiser", from that Rudolf-the-Red-Nosed-Reindeer. "He's Mr Heatmiser, he's Mr Sun, he's Mister Green Christmas, he's Mr Hundred-and-one." "Friends call me Heatmiser, whatever I touch starts to melt in my clutch, I'm too much." Brother to Mr Freezemiser ("Mr Ten-Below.") If you're a huge movie fan, "Batman and Robin"'s Mr Freeze was playing this movie in his lair, during Mr Freezemiser's song-and made his henchmen sing the song. Ok, this movie..... We have Indiana Jones, or Indy, he's wearing a fedora, played by Harrison Ford. Could be any of those. === AHAHAHAHAHAHA! I got it, but I'll let someone else try for a few more hours. Raf can't come online right now and answer anyway. I think that last one is a Van Gogh, but that has nothing to do with the answer.

Yes,and yes. The cop exchange was the opening dialogue in the film. The black Lamborgini was the car Adrienne Barbeau was driving. The comment about the subway was from the end, when the drivers got into a fight with some bikers at that roadblock. Rick Aviles' character came up with a piece of wood and said that. The 2 hits were the guy's shin, then the back of his head. The little guy took him out fast. (I THINK that was Rick Aviles.) The race started at night. The guy who thought he was Roger Moore drove with his lights out. The Japanese team (featuring Jackie Chan, who is Chinese) had a fully computerized car. They shut off the standard headlights and switched on a set of ultraviolet headlights and put on goggles. The 'Sports Spectacular' comment was Rick Aviles and partner, towards the end. The other guy was raving about their one-in-a-million jump over the train. Go, Pirate!

Nobody has to take you up on your invitation. Don't hold your breath. Few people are "portraying" themselves as anything. Actually, rascal made her position pretty clear in her posts of the past 1- 1 1/2 weeks. I had no difficulty telling, since rascal's posts are first understood right in the post they are written. Following nothing more than THAT rule, I was able to READ her posts without reading INTO her posts, and thus found her position. I might recommend you do the same if you want to know. It is NOT difficult. There's a rule of thumb out there, made famous by a group called "Musical Youth" in the song "Pass the Duchie 'pon de Left-Han' Side." That rule of thumb states that you don't boggart-if you got ahold of some good sh*, you share it with the rest of the homies. I deduce you scored some killer sh* because you posted that Goey is either a Jehovah's Witness or a Mormon. WHAT???????? If that's some attempt to use "reverse psychology" to get him to label himself, I'd be SHOCKED if he took you up on it...unless he took a few hits of whatever you've got there. People are rejecting your proposal. Was it Kierkergaard or Dick Van Patten who said "If you label me, you destroy me?" Right, they are. Where is there evidence of some mysterious "Agenda"? Have you not noticed that the overwhelming majority of wiccans and Christians on this board "agree to disagree" quite civilly and don't have problems? A number of wiccans around the country have faced a considerable amount of UNChristian behaviour by supposed 'Christians' who have insulted them, jeered them, ostracized them or BEATEN THEM UP. I've communicated with a number. They communicate with me because surprise surprise! I don't meet them at the door with a baseball bat! I've ameliorated the opinions of a considerable number of them by showing that not ALL Christians are arrogant lcm-heads. What do YOU bring to the table? Haven't you noticed that kicking the door open, bounding in, and announcing you're going to run all the polecats out of town is NOT the way to actually get results? Unless the result you wanted was "draw flak from all sides". The adults here respond badly to people coming in and proselytizing. You arrived and in effect tried to proselytize. They reacted badly, as always. Even if you offered 100% truth, you announced you were arrogant and dismissive of everyone else's point of view. I wouldn't want to go to any church you were teaching at even if it WAS the truth. I "defend the Faith" every day-and it's NOT by yelling.

Eventually, some of them will roll the dice, and get sick and tired of being sick and tired, and maybe conclude that things outside twi can't be WORSE than inside twi, then give it a try. Now, THERE'S something we should all be praying for- the deliverance of the poor children and teens sacrificed to twi who were taken captive at twi's will.

Allan, I'm going to take that at face value-that is, that you honestly believe that is what is happening here. So, having been here since before Y2K, I'll try to offer a bit more perspective-perhaps it will help. Nobody that I've seen is accusing twi of "every evil in the world". They're accusing them of "every evil that happens in twi." You see accusations of rape-not of people raped in Fortune 500 countries-but of people raped in twi, often on grounds by the head OF twi (under more than one president.) Nobody was told rape was an possibility in twi. You see accusations of child molestation-not of children molested in a Montessori school-but of children raped BY twi staff under twi auspices. Imagine the shock to find out that child molestation was available in twi. You see accusations of persecutions and witchhunts-not in Spain under Torquemada, but by twi leaders acting in their capacity as leaders in twi. Certainly, they didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. Leaders lied and stole, deceived, squandered "God's money" on personal luxuries, diverted money FROM being used locally, isolated their followers from other Christians, family, and most other people-except when it was time to get another class together. Families were torn apart, people lived in fear that God would turn his back on them if they disobeyed, and they were lied to and told other Christians were worthless. Did I mention the rape and child molestation? If not for the people who spoke up BEFORE, many of those same leaders would STILL be in power. If not for the speaking WE do, many other people might go along to some meeting, and, next thing you know, be dragged into the same traps. I thank God I was spared all the severe damage, and only received some of the error and hate. No, some people are not angry and bitter. They are FURIOUS and filled with RAGE. Is it an appropriate response? Well, they're angry that people attacked the flock of God, molested children, raped the sisters, and said it was GOD'S WILL FOR THEM TO COOPERATE. Is that something worth getting furious over? If not, you have no heart. Some people need to heal in their own time. How can you ask someone to "just get over" things like that? Some will heal fast, some will heal slow. I think you can see the point now. Some people here believe there were no truths in twi. Many of us-some 60% of us here at the GSC, the place on the internet with the most concentrated hostility about twi- believe at least SOME of the things were correct, because we're still Christians. So we agree on either a few things or MANY things. Few agree it was right for leadership to rape, molest, plagiarize, etc. Those who believe there were truths point out that vpw and others LIED. They hid their sources and said that THEY were the ONLY ones who held that truth, knowing that this was a complete lie. They claimed it was a special connection from God to vpw that was the source of that truth was a number of true, Godly, Christian authors whose work he STOLE, slapped his name on, and dared to claim where originated by him. So, those TRUTHS were surrounded with a shield of lies. Those TRUTHS were not twi's truths. They were God's truths and were out in the world. When they were found, they COULD have been scattered abroad. Instead, vpw carefully gathered the information, repackaged it, then marketed it under his name, giving out that himself was some great one. Now, those TRUTHS were used as the packaging, and they were used to market a product- and that product was twi. The product line included paying money for classes, books, and programs. We were charged RETAIL at all times-despite the products all being produced "in-house", keeping costs down AND twi didn't pay taxes since it was a religion. The programs included the way corps- where people learned some good Bible stuff at some points and served as a manual labour workforce- and PAID CASH-MONEY to do the work! FURTHER, at all times, the leaders sat in the chief seats, were salaamed everywhere they went, and that wasn't ENOUGH for them. They got to enjoy luxuries of every kind-and THAT wasn't enough. They had to add rape and molestation on top of all that before they said it was enough. Then there are some who think that twi had NO truth-just lied and TOLD us that was truth. The lies, corruption, luxuries, and unreported FELONIES become even more offensive and obscene to them. If not more! There is a Japanese saying to the effect that "the other side ALSO has another side." Now, THERE'S a statement I can endorse wholeheartedly, although the "truths" I hold onto might be different than the "truths" you do. Or they might be the same-you may be surprised. It's times like this that I'm glad I never told twi everything I knew- it's information I'm VERY glad lcm never got his hands on. :D-->

Nope. Not a cop film.

"Twister", then?

For your personal life, that's fine. However, you insisted your POV iscorrect in public, which opened it up for discussion. Actually, by posting thatyou are right, you ARE trying to dissuade me-or Goey, in this case. I take it as a given that somewhere along the line, you learned SOMETHING SOMEWHERE SOMEHOW that goes beyond what was in the books. The books are insufficient to answer Goey's point. That does not mean Goey necessarily is correct-it means that if he is wrong, the proof must be ELSEWHERE. You assumed presumptiously. Please find the post where I said this was MY position. I'm pointing out that he has a legitimate position, and your supposed refutation did nothing of the kind. So, either present one or don't pretend you did. By not allowing you to sloppily parrot answers, and examine things, I'm doingmy job to encourage you to THINK. For all I know, you may go off, pray, read God's Word, and come back with an insight so brilliant it is irrefutable. I think you are capable of much better than your current performance, and I want to see it. If I was completely callous, I could just leave you there and throw insults. (See the 'twi teenager' post for examples of that.) Your belief is incorrect. One does not prove a NEGATIVE. I shall offer another example. LOOK! EVERYONE!!!! GREEN MONKEYS ARE FLYING OUT OF LCM'S KEISTER RIGHT NOW!!!!! YES, LOOK! THEY ARE! You don't believe me? PROVE THEY AREN'T. You can't prove their non-existence? Then you proved my point-they're flying out his @$$ right now! Was that simple enough an example, or were you able to follow it? You're still assuming-assuming HIS position is MY position. You can do a LOT better than this, Oldies. Turn on the old brain-cells, review the posts, think them thru, let them percolate, sleep on them, come back in a day, reread them, THEN answer them. THOSE answers should be a LOT more quality than your current posts. I believe you can do it.....

"Storm of the Century"? Tom, you were thinking of the "Get Smart" episode where he was looking for the Tequila Mockingbird, weren't you? :D-->

"I'm saying that if CBS was there, we would have 'made' Sports Spectacular!" "What-you wanna do it again?" "I'll be d*ed-a Kojak with a Kodak!" "Headquarters, we are still in pursuit of the black Lamborghini." "Car 42, you've been in pursuit for 2 hours. Another 5 minutes and you'll be in Arizona." "Yeah, and we're gonna STAY in pursuit until we catch them." "It didn't take us that long to catch DILLINGER." "Might be easier with your lights on." "Why advertise?"

I can't believe that the kids believe this AND IT DOESN'T SCARE THE HELL OUT OF THEM! We weeded out others so we can scrutinize YOU even more closely! To quote Asok (from "Dilbert"), HOLY MOTHER OF TOMATOES!! George Right- teenagers who are FINE with being SCRUTINIZED???? What the HECK happened to THEM in childhood that this is acceptable?

Yes, oldies! Prove irrefutably that you have the real deal! That will settle matters!