WordWolf

Summer 1942. pg-177, he meets Rosalind Rinker in Indiana. Ok, this was the FIRST time he was ready to quit on God. End of August, 1942. Those of you following along at home should begin your tally here.

I wasn't close. It reminded me of some stuff off "9 Lives". ==== Pirate, you posted this new one and complained about that Bloodhound Gang song? At least that was written completely as a joke! (No, I don't know this one. It's not even my wild guess.)

I shall check and get back to you on this. It doesn't sound familiar to me and I was just in that thing. The only conspicuous description I left out was the abortive attempt at a hand-signal for the group. Having packed before, I'm aware that you don't pack bulky items you have no intention to use. If he had packed a guitar, he was going to play it. If he was embarassed and packed it, he was going to play it IN PRIVATE. Even HE admitted he didn't play it at all. Nobody EVER, I mean, EVER, saw him play in the entire run of the ministry? Does ANYONE think this story even MIGHT be true?

I'm thinking that's one of Smee's lines in "Hook". "You mean an epiphany." "It's like light just struck my brain. "That must hurt." If it isn't, it's only because I was just recounting the "Don't try to stop me, Smee!" scene earlier...

For some reason, I'm thinking "Aerosmith" is the band...

Dustin Hoffman Dick Tracy Warren Beatty

Probably. Is it considered a sport? I know ESPN covers it, and some of the stuff is covered in the Olympics' equestrian events. I've phrased it as generally as possible to allow for all sorts of sports I'm unfamiliar with.

Convenient coincidence that what served God just happened to be the easy path for him. pg-177, he meets Rosalind Rinker in Indiana.

To give everyone the benefit of the doubt, please consider "I rode the bench" to be equivalent as any other position on that team for the purpose of this poll.

Please select the highest level of involvement you ever achieved in the sport of your choice.

"How in the h*ll can you talk about tithing without bringing money into it?" Well, here's how I see this, scrutinizing it now.... According to vpw's account... He was a BRAND-NEW pastor, RAISING A FAMILY. The local elders (read "authority figures") tell him he has a free hand to teach on anything EXCEPT MONEY. So, that week, he teaches on tithing/money. (This can jeopardize his job, STARTING as a loose cannon.) The NEXT week, he teaches on tithing/money. This WOULD jeopardize his job. He's fixated on doing the opposite of his one instruction. The church has now sat thru precisely TWO teachings by the new guy, and BOTH were about giving money to the church. What conclusion would a normal person make, sitting in the pew? "He's in it for the money." It doesn't take a psychologist or other expert to see that. What action do the elders take? NOTHING. The THIRD week, he preaches on tithing/money. The average parishoner begins to get bitter, and either stops attending, complains the new guy's a putz, or withholds their donations. This SERIOUSLY jeopardizes the health of the church. What action do the elders take? NOTHING. The fourth week, he teaches on tithing/money. The average parishoner complains about him being a schmuck on their way out to find a REAL church. Donations are withheld or given as pocket-change. FINALLY, the elders take action (between 1-3 weeks after the AVERAGE council of elders would have taken action.) They talk to him in the kitchen of the house/ the basement of the church. He gives them a smart-aleck response, and they go away, taking no further action. The church responds by giving MORE money, a LOT more money. So many of the details make NO sense on further scrutiny. Might this be another of vpw's fairy tales about how he tweaked the noses of authority figures? If he is to be believed, he bucked the system as soon as he arrived, and mouthed off when he was called on it. According to him, he succeeded that way. This shows the frame of mind of what he considers an APPROPRIATE response. This shows his eagerness to make stuff up. This shows his eagerness to paint himself as a clever maverick who swims against the stream and gets effective results for it. We know that in real life, he bullied the parishoners, and got in some trouble with a church for something he did to a church secretary. We know that in his own mind, he was a veritable hero who was without faults, so it was the small minds of the elders that were always wrong. BTW, it seems that he didn't exactly rehearse this story. It's got a continuity error. The elders met him in 2 entirely different locations for the portentuous chat. I didn't even catch that until now when I compared them side-by-side.

I can see you guys are really cleaning out your collections of 78's....

The Mask of Zorro Antonio Banderas Once Upon a Time in Mexico

Hm. They told him he could do anything EXCEPT ONE, and that was his immediate UNYIELDING focus, and they had the nerve to be offended that he went 180 degrees from his instructions. (ANY church where tithing is taught on for an ENTIRE MONTH looks like it's ONLY in it for the money, and NOBODY will like it.) "They said not to teach on money, so I didn't-I taught on tithing." I'll bet he felt so clever, so pleased with himself for adhering-PARTLY- to the letter while perverting the spirit of his instructions. For those wondering if they were right to give him instructions, they were the ELDERS-the experienced local leaders, and he was the guy who JUST arrived and was young and lacking in experience. Unless he had a compelling reason beyond tweaking their noses, he should have considered their counsel wise and followed it. pg-185-186. vpw is continuing his tour.

Isn't one of the classic indications of a liar someone who embellishes and gives a lot more information than necessary to make a point?

This Dr. Lohman. Did he exist and if he did, did VP really say these things to him? Who would have been there who could have substantiated VP's claim when this was written? Probably no one and VP knew this and used it to his advantage if what I am suggesting is true. What did VP mean by 'kid's talk'? Did he mean that kids talk like 'I'm gonna be an astronaut, I'm gonna be a ballerina/vetenarian, I wanna be a bull rider, a cowboy'. Is that what he meant that kids say the darndest things? But I think it interesting that he speaks of it but almost in a 3rd person...completely removed as if it wasn't him saying the stuff, but perhaps someone else and he was just an observer that day he met this Dr. Lohman. That brings me to another question. Was there a Dr. Lohman and did this mission festival really happened in New Knoxville in or around about 1925? Hm, good point. I was thinking he was saying he was blowing smoke at the guy and sucking up. Looking at the overall picture, it seems he meant something else.. "I am the greatest man of God in 2000 years! When I was 9 or 10 was when we first saw signs of this! Then later came miraculous snowstorms and teachings I got straight from God that you can hear nowhere else!" All of this does not make me think of someone displaying any 'ministerial' tendencies. Even the townsfolk couldn't believe it. So this means that what he had said that day to Dr. Lohman as well as what VP's brother Harry recounts how he used to teach to the trees ... etc... well it sounds like VP kept his aspirations very hush hush to all those around him. Like he almost lived a 'dual' life. --> Right. In public, he was a kid who skipped all his chores, who became a teen who was an arrogant showoff and bully. Where no evidence exists (his mind), he was a devout kid who preached to trees and became some sort of star athlete.

I thought we'd previously discussed it, but I can't find any references to such a discussion, so... In reading this comment, I was reminded (again) of the story and movie, "the Secret Life of Walter Mitty"-a man who lives great adventures in his own mind as he goes about his normal life.

Psst! Pirate? Your turn.

I don't know. If it's a work pc, then it might be a program the job added that's basically a spy. If it is your own pc, then I recommend a few steps to make sure it's not a program you DON'T want. Do you have the following programs, and are they updated as of this past week? SpywareBlaster AdAware Spybot:Search and Destroy a reputable firewall a reputable antivirus all recent critical updates to Windows (especially Service Pack 2)? Have you run all these programs in the past day? If this is malware, these should sweep it clear.

BTW, what does "involved with" mean here? I mean one Greasespotter found the complete list of the team rosters of the Sheboygan Redskins, and his name wasn't there. Of course, "involved with" eventually became "played on" which became "I invented the hook shot"... Ok, here's some information on this Sheboygan Redskins thing. Someone found a PDF file online where someone put an anti-cult paper online. They said to google for "Sheboygan Redskins in the NBL". It's called "An Analysis of Some of the Cults..." and it's also up in RTT format. You can download it now yourselves-I just did. Now then, it has a comment that vpw played for the Sheboygan Redskins. No clarifications beyond what we read in THIS book. So, I scrolled to the Bibliography. Guess what? The source for this "confirmation" was THIS BOOK. In other words, this PDF book confirms what this book says-because it uses this book as the source. If I wrote a book saying I was an astronaut and flew in the Space Shuttle, and a website quoted my book and said I did, you can't use that website as "proof" that I was on the shuttle. So, that covers that PDF. As usual, an anti-cult book was written with sloppy research and using hearsay as "facts". ========= Posters have confirmed that vpw played basketball in high school. They even found a team pic with him on it-from high school. Then again, this means, at best, he was as good an athlete as ME- I was on a COLLEGE Varsity team for 2 years. Nobody ever questioned him playing High School basketball. ======= Pirate1974 posted the following. Pirate also posted a list of the names of the players for the entire run of the team, and speculated on who vpw MIGHT be. Based on reviewing the EXACT quote from this book, I think "involved in" might have meant "helped them warm up", "was the waterboy", etc. It's possible that vpw EITHER 1) Was BRILLIANT with aliases or 2) Lied to us a lot. Either explains why the Sheboygan Redskins don't have his name, and why Moody doesn't have his name although he supposedly took "ALL" their classes. BTW, "I played basketball all thru college" is not synonymous with "I played on my college's varsity basketball team" or even "I was on my college's varsity basketball team". If he showed up on a court and played a game of pick-up once a month, then he "played basketball all thru college". If he was on the Junior Varsity team (the second string team), then he "played basketball all thru college". People have seen pics of him on the HIGH SCHOOL team, but not his COLLEGE team. This is NOT a guarantee he was NOT on the team. However, given his tendency to plug his few LEGITIMATE accomplishments on great detail (Masters degree), for him to suddenly get COY about his basketball "career" in college, only to inflate it AFTER college (his "involvement" with a professional team) seems uncharacteristic and nonsensical. ============ BTW, I'd appreciate the inputs of the other people following along on this thread. That's one reason I posted the quotes BEFORE starting detailed discussion and analysis. I mean, I deeply appreciate the thanks, but I think we can all benefit from those who lived some of these...

For someone who can't remember the past, he sure could recall a lot of names, almost as if he wants to name-drop. Further, as someone found out, Moody has no record of vpw completing ANY of its classes, which is the indicator someone completed a class. Sounds like his claim of taking "all" their classes is just hot air. BTW, what does "involved with" mean here? I mean one Greasespotter found the complete list of the team rosters of the Sheboygan Redskins, and his name wasn't there. Of course, "involved with" eventually became "played on" which became "I invented the hook shot"... Don't forget, that's still one drink whenever something or someone is "the best"...

Sadly, this is hardly a surprise, either. They don't know how to NOT be controlling.

Other than Annie, nothing she did was as recognizable as "Traxx". Not even to the families of the cast.

What he said! Actually, since it appears tithing was specifically to the High Priest in Jerusalem, and this guy isnt him, I'm not that eager in that department...

Yet another thing vpw supposedly excelled at, which we NEVER saw any evidence of. We know he was obsessed with music-his ministries all seemed to circle around it-until he got ahold of Leonard's work. pg-174. Harry thinks you were preaching to the trees when you went off for hours and neglected your chores. Since you had no plans to go into the ministry at the time, it's obvious you weren't preaching... Being a medical doctor or a lawyer is a LOT of work, and has MUCH professional oversight. Just a thought. Comments, people?