WordWolf

[i'll agree about POWER. I'm dubious, at present, that it was about HATE.] [Yes, an inflated sense of entitlement is one sign of sociopathic personality disorder. I agree on all of this.] [That's possible, but if so, why did SPECIFIC women get a lot of credit? Rosalind Rinker was lauded, and a few others. I think that if he truly HATED women that this wouldn't happen. I think he UNDERESTIMATED them, and considered them DOMESTICS and TOOLS in his mind- good for the kitchen, and as sex objects, and for keeping silence otherwise. I think a HATRED is a leap-but looking down on them is borne out by evidence.] [i'll agree he enabled and subtly encouraged wife-abuse (but not HUSBAND-ABUSE), and looking down on, and abuse of others. I think this was not borne of HATE, but of INDIFFERENCE. If women were not tools, they were invisible.]

[ Yes, skipping over the "special miracles" is possibly an intellectual blindspot. Since he's not even used to the ordinary, everyday, average miracles, he glosses over them. He may not even be aware they're mentioned. ]

I don't know, but now I HAVE to see it when the answer is revealed. I just LOVED that rejoinder. :D

Well, you missed the mark again. I claimed it was in plain sight and did everything but post a blinking sign. You spent all your energy looking for some type of setup or hidden message. I shall spell it out for you, then. I quoted that from you and said "the answer is right here." It still is. Since you missed it even with help, I'll turn on the blinking neon sign. Oakspear: "I have no respect for idiots who claim to have an inside track on the mysteries of the universe and the mind of God." Mike: "Are you asserting that no one "can have an inside track on the mysteries of the universe and the mind of God?" NOW you can see the difference, right? " who claim to have" "can have" === If Oakspear meets the Buddha in the road, Oakspear will beat him up. :)

Actually, I'll give you a hint and give you first crack at answering your own question. The quote where you quoted Oakspear and replied, that I quoted here? The answer is right here. C'mon, Mike, you can do it....

What did the possible doctrinal accuracy or inaccuracy of the Book of Mormon have to do with two people at Belle's door? It had nothing to do with the discussion-practice and altruism. It's almost as if someone dragged a doctrinal discussion to be quarrelsome and demonstrate doctrinal superiority over someone. Belle already pointed out the utter uselessness of barking demands and swaggering over someone, when compared with "if your enemy hungers, feed him".... There's a difference between RECITING Scripture and LIVING Scripture. Of course, my saying so no more changes the thread than the fight commentator changes the course of the boxing match. Before I even posted, enough was revealed.

And, we're up to the second snow job!<BR>pg-198. vpw was fed up with the meeting, and got ready to leave. I tell you, that just gets more and more prominent the more I read it....

"Do I remember some of those songs?" Do you remember who you're addressing? :blink: Want them recited or something? ====== Last I'd heard, he'd completely re-written "Spiritual Private Eye", but I never got to hear the new version. The old version had a fantastic sound carried in it. The spiritual private eye was talking about a particular case. Between the first and second verse, you can hear him casually light up a cigarette, puff it, and exhale before he continues his story. (Final Fantasy 7 fans may appreciate the gesture also.) Everybody thought it was a great enhancement to the mood of the song. It made it sound more like a gumshoe was starting to tell a story like in those old movies. As it turned out, he was shocked and annoyed when he realized the microphone picked it up. I told him it was a happy accident and please leave it in. (John "Cougar" Mellencamp made a similar discovery when the handclaps were picked up on "Jack and Diane", and retained it for a similar reason- it made the song sound better. He just used it to keep the cadence in practice.) ==== "Superman", however, ALWAYS brought the house down. In fact, it was such a vivid set of images that we performed the song as a skit once. All of us who knew the song got roped in, including this brand-new guy who got dragged in. :D E**e*e played and sang, and added some musical bridges to allow us to fit some actions in at busy points in the song. Everybody was familar with it, more or less, and people had already requested he play it earlier in the evening. The imagery was Ephesians 6:12 stuff. So, one guy steps up to the microphone in a white shirt and bowtie. "Ladies and gentlemen! Coming to you live from the mind of the believer, the spiritual competition! For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high pla-ces!" Then stepped back to act as the referee. (The SONG said there was none-but the performance needed one, so there. We added a bell-ringer, as well-the new guy who got roped in. :) ) The smallest guy was picked to play the Christian, the biggest played his opponent, complete with scary mask. "We step into the ring, my opponent and me, Steel cage massacre, no referee. We glare at one another and so the match begins, Whoever walks out is the one who wins. "Well, he's a musclebound killer, he steals and destroys, He's got a secret weapon that he always employs, He fakes out his enemies and hits them from behind, He messes up their minds. "But I'm Superman, I can leap tall buildings in a single bound. I'm Superman, Me and my Dad can beat anyone around." [The choreography of that part had both wrestlers enter the ring at opposite corners. At the reference to the cheap-shot, the other wrestler sneaks one in until the ref pulls him back. Sharp eyes saw the Christian praying with someone in the corner, And the ref ducked a swing from the bad guy.] "Well, I'm in the best of condition, I'm a wrestling machine, I've got all the equipment and I'm feeling mean. So I yell at my opponent as he dances in place 'In the name of Jesus Christ I'm gonna mess up your face!' " [both wrestlers dance in their corners, awaiting the bell. The Christian flexed, and the last line was yelled by the wrestler, not sang. The bell rang at the end of that line.] "Well, I've got the cobra clutch, and I've got the sleeper-hold, I jump off of the ropes and I knock him cold, I pin him in the blink of an eye, and I say 'Unh-unh, devil, you can wave goodbye!' " [The match begun. The larger opponent, full of bluster, is at an early disadvantage. He's placed in a hold, the Christian jumps and knocks him down, and he's taken to the mat with the count ABOUT to start, when he's 'saved by the bell'. The Christian shouts the final line again as the audience goes bananas.] "I'm Superman, my super-power is in God's pure seed. I'm Superman, my Daddy behind me is all I need. "You can't beat me, I'm a super-conqueror, Born of incorruptible seed, I can see you, I can see all your lies, I'm gonna rip off your mask and expose your disguise." [The match resumed, and the devil is getting a hard time of it, and even suffers his mask being ripped off.] "Yeah, we step into the ring, my opponent and me, And he's shaking like a leaf, he's going weak at the knees, I'm a Born Again Son in the Heavyweight Class, And if the devil don't like it he can kiss my.... "Yes, I'm a Superman, so go ahead baby, make my day. I'm a Superman, you lousy devil spirits gonna blow you away." [The devil's running away and has to be caught and pinned, and the 3-count is very visibly done at that last line, with the bell ending the match.] "Yes I'm a Superman. You're a Superman. We're all Supermen. Heavyweight champion." [it was a little hard to hear the closing. As the ref hoisted the winner's arm up and announced the winner (subvocally), the audience was busy cheering and applauding like it was Wrestlemania or something.] Man, we had a BLAST doing that. Sure would be nice if they popped up on the GSC sometime.

I'm still wondering about that myself. Was he really ready to quit a lot, or did he just say that? I suspect he really was ready to quit. I also remember hearing him teach on what Jesus said about committment, and "no man, having put his hand to the plow, having turned back," is worthy of being a leader.

Since he NAME-DROPPED Albert Cliffe, I would expect he either got something from him, or wanted us to BELIEVE he got something from him. A glance at Cliffe's stuff leads me to think Cliffe didn't have a reputation among powers that be like, say, Karl Barth (whom he also name-dropped). Then again, we've no signs he even used a catchphrase from KB. (This week-maybe next week we'll find something.)

Technically, that IS a change. They used to say "tapped to the ROOT" not "tapped to the HEART". So, they changed one catchphrase, one slogan, one buzzword.

Given that the copyright on "Let Go and Let God" (which was a catchphrase in twi) is 1951, I'd suspect so. I also think Albert Cliffe's book "Lessons in Successful Living" (copyright 1953) would be of MORE interest- to YOU specifically. That's because there are 3 chapters with interesting titles: 1) "Spiritual Healing" (written by a man only nominally Christian who said he got his material from dead people) 2) "Positive and Negative Thinking" (session 1's only chart in the syllabus, and Question 1 of "Listening with a Purpose") 3) "TITHES AND THE LAW OF PROSPERITY." You can cross off your scorecard the "where did he get tithing from" question. (In case you're wondering, I posted this 2 days ago in a different thread...)

Po-TAY-toe, po-TAH-toe....

Well, maybe they WILL use the rabid squirrel. After all, if someone else did it and EVERYONE didn't hear about it, they may do it and claim this is the first time it's happened. That's how they start almost EVERYTHING they do...

pg-198, a bunch of guys agreed to pray for him to get tongues, so they prayed for him... Although this fits neatly with his established pattern of defying authority by hewing close to the LETTER of an instruction and mutilating its SPIRIT, this entire story strikes me as more of an afterthought, an "I WISH I'd thought of this at the time" story. If they were tuned in, they'd have known he was faking. Plus, Hebrew and Greek are not exactly unknown languages to Christians. Then again, maybe they said to themselves, 'he's a Christian-he surely wouldn't LIE to us or try to DECEIVE us.' (Some other people made that mistake, after all...) Further, his degree was in "homiletics" or "preaching", NOT "Bible languages" or the like. Odd that he seemed to think it was later in life, judging from his homiletics... Either way, I find this a persistent character flaw that he's bragging about- ANOTHER persistent character flaw.

Maybe. Or maybe it means exactly what it says- he knew this Christian who saw this vision. I'm curious as to whether Tertullian or anyone else had a psychological issue with the idea that some guy who wasn't all over the Bible might have a special characteristic like a cool, "special" vision. Is there a reason other than "it MIGHT be that way" to think that Paul suddenly switched to this method of address? Or, was he doing this ALL OVER THE EPISTLES and I've missed it somehow? (If so, please provide examples.)

BTW, this marks the THIRD, count 'em, THIRD time he's said he was going to quit. Twice in 1942, once in 1951.

Please post the exact quote where I did that. What I said spoke nothing of the present nor past. Your inability to read what was on the SAME screen has been demonstrated again, so there is no need to announce it. And I don't "juggle" when approaching the deeper things of God. I don't plan to post them in this forum, either.

No, it's just ONE post of mine where the quote tags are COMPLETELY refusing to work. I've been using the quotes a LOT since arriving.... remember? The Wonderland thread has a lot of those posts... I hope that one post is just a fluke...

*thinks* Here's how I see it right now.... vpw MEANT to say that the others were counterfeits. However, even he knew Rufus Mosley was real and it didn't take with Rufus. We know it finally worked with Stiles, and Stiles spent HOURS with him, going over and over and over stuff, THEN walking him thru. Since others didn't seem to need this (Rufus was SURPRISED it didn't work), I think the only logical conclusion was that vpw was the spiritual equivalent of a REMEDIAL STUDENT. Stiles needed to give him private tutoring because he wasn't able to keep up with the rest of the class.

Is it just me or did the quote tags suddenly stop working?

You put your posts out in public, you take your chances with the rest of us. You don't see me chasing you all over cyberspace, do you? When he's got the advantage, he prefers to respond. When not, he makes vague statements as to being misrepresented. For example, Tom challenged him to dispute ANY of his claims or my direct quotes, in response to Mike's standard claim of being misrepresented. For the record, I've NEVER misrepresented Mike, unless "misrepresented" means "show him as he does not WISH to be seen." I accurately reflect his CONTENT. His posts are on a public messageboard. Thus they stand or fall on their own merits, and face possible ridicule when they are blatantly foolish. Translation: I prefer to run my commercials rather than discuss the faults of my error-ridden doctrines. Speaking of which, here's my commercial: Actually, this is an improvement on his usual commercial. Normally, he prefers to not even allow for the possibility that he might be deceived. He's learned SOMETHING the past few years. You're an adult and can choose to communicate with whoever you want. There are women who are penpals of murderers in prison, also, and claim to fall in love with them. Some people here have opened communications with Mike and have not only regretted it, but they've angrily demanded Mike stop trying to communicate with them, and use their personal histories (edited for his advantage) in his posts. But hey, for all you know, maybe I'm lying. Look around the site, though-I got all that from their POSTS. Only the ones he might have answers to, of course. He's toned down his insults. We used to be called "busloads of bozos" and other things. But it WILL be on MIKE's terms, which should get your attention. Do whatever you want. He's posted it here, and someone posted it in the other board of a twi innie recently. It's called "the Joy of Serving". You can do a search on it if you don't want to wait for Mike to string you along in suspense over it. It was posted BY Mike, of course, so you can use his name as a filter. This giving you the thing to enter in the search engine, this is an example of me trying to "suppress this information". Us providing information and his own words when you weren't in the room is how he defines "suppression", that is, "disagreeing with him". Another thing you probably learned was to beware people who want to hide some of their comments and keep controlling their image.... In case you don't want to bother reading the entire "last message", here's a thumbnail sketch. "Serving people is important for Christians. Therefore, master all three levels of PFAL and serve them that. There are no answers outside the Way Ministry." My initial response to it was that this was the closing remarks of a man with an overinflated sense of his organization, and an underinflated sense of all Christians outside that organization. Perhaps your response will be the same. Perhaps not. Either way, Mike looks like he might resume posting DOCTRINAL posts outside the DOCTRINAL forum. You wouldn't do that, would you, Mike? ---- GreasyTech editing only to find why the quotes are not quotes. No text changed.

Now then, first, a few ground-rules. God's Word, I believe we agree, would be the Word proceeding from God. As such, it would be free of errors as issued. (Those of you who don't believe there IS a Word of God, please note that I didn't say there must BE one, only that this would be an attribute should it exist. Please unclench and consider this an intellectual exercise.) If it would be free of errors, another thing it MUST be free of is "internal contradictions." That is, the mathematical statement "A and not-A" can't be found in it. Something cannot specifically be ONE discrete thing, and at the same time be ANOTHER discrete thing. Here's an example. Suppose someone presents you with an odd item. He explains it is a "blorfnot", and is an exotic food item. He then goes into a lengthy story about his travels in Hungary. As he continues his story, he explains that the item he has presented to you is a "blorfnot", and was invented there for use in woodworking and building furniture. He has presented an internal contradiction. The blorfnot is a food item and is NOT a food item at the same time. This is a "contradiction", and it is impossible for both halves of a contradiction to be true. Therefore, any item containing a contradiction contains an error and is imperfect. Since it is imperfect and contains at least one error, it cannot be said to be free of errors. Therefore, it can't be the Word of God, unless this God is imperfect and makes mistakes. (For the sake of this discussion, let us agree to accept a perfect God who doesn't make mistakes, and proceed.) ========= Now then, there's a claim that occasionally passes through here that vpw's books were the Word of God. However, all the errors in it EACH prove it is not. Nevertheless, here's one which hasn't been discussed enough. I present to you the Burnt Umber Book, "The Word's Way", book 3 of Studies in Abundant Living. Specifically, I present to you the strange tale of the Amazing Morphin' Man! (pg-87-88)Based on verse 1, looks like we'll be discussing "visions and revelations of the Lord." Paul speaks of a man he knew who had an amazing experience. Then vpw talks about the words "caught up" and "third heaven" for a few pages. pg-91, he's finishing up on the third heaven. Wait a minute! When did PAUL get "caught away"? Paul knew A MAN in Christ who was "caught away"! Paul NEVER said he HIMSELF was "caught away"! Doesn't that strike you as mildly ironic? vpw followed up a piece of "private interpretation" bysaying this ended private interpretation. What prompted vpw to cause this unnamed man to morph into Paul? It's absolutely amazing, isn't it? pg-91.There he's Paul again in vpw's comments! pg-92. Skipping the "literal translation" and reading what is written,it should be obvious the emphasis is not on Paul getting Revelation- it is on the Lord providing the visions and revelations. The Lord is the one deserving of glory. That's why it's not expedient for Paul to glory. pg-92 It's the guy again. Please note the "more than" was vpw, not me. pg-95. Now it's Paul again.pg-96. So, in this chapter, There's a man Paul knew more than fourteen years ago, who was caught up to the third heaven. No-it was PAUL who was caught up to the third heaven. No-it was the man Paul knew. No-it was PAUL. This chapter contains an internal contradiction, it contradicts ITSELF. Since A and not-A can't BOTH be right, this chapter has error, and is not God-Breathed. Therefore, it is not the Word of God, and the book is not the Word of God, since it cannot contain an error. === For an encore, please note that this chapter was about VISIONS and REVELATIONS. Someone keeps insisting actual TIME TRAVEL was involved. Thank you all so much!