WordWolf

Sir, why do you think I never installed it? The caching feature on their servers allows you to load stuff faster- and allowed others to access your cache. People were browsing online stores, and their browser was announcing they were logged into the site as [name of someone else.] Private forums and stuff could be accessed by the same method. I love Google's normal search function. But ANY data ANYBODY saves makes me give them "the hairy eyeball", so the "helpful improvements" I pass on.

Actually, when I get bored, I sometimes toss this question around for an instant. Depending on my mood, I've figured either Benjamin Bratt, Lou Diamond Phillips or Esai Morales. As I just discovered, however, all of them are about 6 ft tall. So, they could play a TALL me. Or an older, tall me, to be specific. I don't know of any current actors for a younger me... Here's Benjamin Bratt: http://images.hollywood.com/images/4_1099844.jpg Here's Lou Diamond Phillips: http://entimg.msn.com/i/gal/HollywoodHomic...ips_350x435.jpg Here's Esai Morales: http://www.enzogiobbe.com/celebs/Esai_Morales3a.jpg

Actually, a Jew once told me outright that was his major beef with Christianity, that the Trinity was pretty much his dividing line.

Looks like you and I made the same points, Oak. Think anybody will read them?

To most people that even had a passing familiarity with it, too. Me, I just made sure my fridge was full and that I would need to go to the bank for a few days. My concerns were panicking people. When I saw India made it fine, that was the final confirmation I needed. Actually, I heard on various media that this was nothing to worry about and why. It was uneducated people NOT in the media that kept sounding the alarm. Like George Wallace said, there were people thinking their TOASTERS would stop working... Well, people seemed to think that anything where the date rolled over would just keel over and die. Now, the media announced THAT wouldn't happen-and had to KEEP mentioning it because some people wouldn't listen. The media are JUST as fine when they're informing a crisis is AVERTED as when they have to sound an alarm. "Blame the media! It's their fault!" Sounds like you're a "shoot the messenger" type. So, the program isn't programmed for 4 digits yet? I notice that your computer and business wouldn't have shut down as soon as it hit midnite-which was what people were predicting. "People will starve because supermarket stock is done electronically, so they won't know what to send out!" I said "Nonsense. The company WITH the stock isn't going to just give up. They will send one dweeb with a hardhat and a clipboard. He will see what they have in stock, and write it down. Then they will get on the phone-which won't shut down at midnite- and call a supermarket, and say "We have this is stock. Do you want it shipped?" This will take LONGER, but it's not like the food currently in stock will suddenly vanish at midnite. (Unless you count people buying it all-but then, of course, that person HAS food and won't be SHOPPING soon!) Actually, all over the city, state and country, people DID rewrite a lot of code. I spoke to several of them. Actually, the people doing the work found it to be a nuisance and boring. They complained about the panic of the companies, all of whom were hyperventilating. One guy was peeved about his New Year's plans. His entire technical division was required to stay in town close to their job in case everything crashed-even AFTER the code was rewritten. So, they hung out and threw their own party-but that WAS "making lemonade from lemons". It was almost incidental with all the OTHER panicks of the decade. lcm was getting his news from some famous paranoid conspiracy sites *coughLibertyLobbycough* that had served vpw for the panicks of the 70s. (Those never came to fruition, either.) So, we had the "Pope Aircraft Carrier" and the "Pope will declare martial law" and the "Pope will force conversion at weapon-point" crap, along with "oh, BTW, the government and civilization will collapse in 5 years. Better stock up on canned food and shotguns." They've been sounding variations on that alarm for longer than I'm aware of, and they're either sounding it now or are making PLANS to sound it again. That's how the "paranoid conspiracy information sources" like the Liberty Lobby STAY IN BUSINESS. Fools PAY THEM to deliver consistently INCORRECT information that they can then use to panic their constituencies. Yeah, more actual news sounded pessimistic too, so the Paranoia Newswire didn't sound like the nonsense-peddlers they still were and always were. Well, the economy sucked and gas prices sucked, but it was hardly The Great Depression, nor the Spanish Flu Outbreak. Now, THOSE were emergencies of the 20th century United States. If you believed that, then your information was MUCH worse than the REALITY was. Most of us-through 20/20 hindsight- can see that it was hardly as bad as many thought then. The gas lines were the worst, but that was as much bad planning on the part of the government and big business that was passed down to the consumer. (Which is an old story.) If there had been a more sensible plan that involved more hybrid cars and hybrid fuels, there would have been gas lines for people with unconverted cars, and business as usual for those who kept up. I mean, one half-assed measure was a move to more fuel-efficient cars for some in the 80s and 90s, and THAT would have made a BIG difference as well...

Unless CK is completely snowing us, there was some sort of "security" check where there was an attempt to determine who was safe to enter and who wasn't based on their name. No, this doesn't gibe with what the MySpace youngsters said. That means either CK is in error, or THEY are in error. Given the above, and knowing how 3rd-hand the MySpace kids get their news (like how there were never any problems under vpw's watch and how Rosa-lie wasn't guilty of conspiracy to commit rape under lcm's watch), I'd say CK's eyewitness account is correct and what the youngsters was told was false once again. Does this qualify as much of a surprise? BTW, what do they REALLY think is going to happen all the way out there? It's not like Al-Qaida is going to try to blow them up or something....

Neither is a brochure legally or morally equivalent to a binding contract. I DID notice that the exact requirement of the corps were subject to complete change at ANY moment. After all, nobody signed a document saying "note-taking is mandatory, and I understand I must always take notes unless otherwise specified", but vpw would throw people out of a room if they weren't taking notes. (And was prepared to throw them out of the corps.) vpw also could-and did-wake up one morning, kick out the entire corps year, (in violation of the obligations HE accepted-that's a 2way street), and then say "you can return only if you write a letter of an oath of loyalty to me"-which he DID require. (Ok, I dont know the time of day he announced they were all kicked out, but that's not the point of my comment.) I'm sure there's a WEALTH of other "requirements" that came and went at a moment's notice as well.

Most Christians have no difficulty seeing this distinction. Some will serve in dramatic, famous ways, some will serve in smaller, equally-vital ways.

That's true whether the distinction is made by the individual leader or the leader he answers to. If the trained leader is trusted that little, then I suppose he's not going to be the one to make the call. If so, why waste 4 years of training on him, only to micro-manage him? Not necessarily.Local needs may change DAY TO DAY. Someone trained as a problem-solver or a troubleshooter in ANY field needs to adapt to accomplish various tasks as they need doing. Area leaders concentrate on the big picture, and watch the area in a more general way. They anticipate general needs-and those may be wrong. It is up to those operating locally to evaluate the situations they are in, determine the best course of action, then carry it out. Many times that may involve keeping others informed, but that is NOT a requirement. Of course, you could easily say "well, the area leader's supposed to listen for divine revelation and anticipate accordingly", but the obvious answer to that is that "the local leader's supposed to do the same, which returns the situation to the general overseer and the local operator. Wrong analogy. A boss and a worker is different from a boss and a supervisor. Both are leaders, and they have specific tasks, to which the other may be poorly suited. If a boss has to KEEP directing the supervisor ALL THE TIME, it reflects a lack of confidence in them to supervise, and is called MICRO-MANAGEMENT. Bosses do not LIKE having to supervise-it means someone else isn't doing their job. Or, you could say that the boss has to oversee an entire department or company, while the supervisor must oversee specifics at the moment, and may need to break the rules or disregard them depending on the situation. ==== Since I'm sure you don't see it this way, I think we're better off declaring an impasse.

Too true. Even better, if his twi was the twi we ALL had experienced, there would have been little need to leave at all!

So, then, we reached an impasse, and agree to disagree?

Seeing things differently is always accepted on the GSC. Keep in mind that some people will give it a shot to convince you that another position might have more merit. Then again, some people will just open fire because you disagree. It's one of the prices we pay in having open discussion here. The goal many of us target is to "disagree without being disagreeable." Some of us succeed in this. Me, I'm a Christian who rarely strikes sparks with the pagans, wiccans and things that go bump in the night. We disagree rather civilly. (Mostly.) We respect that the other has the right to their opinion, and don't waste the energy or bile necessary to go hammer and tongs over the nature of God or whatever. Please also note that most of us see the difference between an opinion held and politely expressed, and a post that insists that everyone else is WRONG! Plus, at some point, EVERYBODY disagrees. And yet, somehow, life goes on.....

And you were incorrect. I figured that if you're trying to train LEADERS-as their CLAIM was despite an absence of anyone with experience running or TAKING any leadership training- then you're training the leader to first A) work autonomously A Leader who second-guesses HIMSELF all the time is double-minded and unstable in all his ways. (The reality was that they WANTED leaders to be anything BUT autonomous-which we can see from the RESULTS-inculcation of blind loyalty.) and then secondarily B) lead others A leader must, by definition, LEAD. That means he is expected to make decisions, and is REQUIRED to do so. (Of course, in twi, all decisions had to be notarized by a higher-up, or you might be in trouble. Then again, if they agreed with you, "God will cover.") So, a Christian is trained to lead in a program, then leaves the program. He is now able to use the skills he learned (presuming he learned any) as an asset to the body of Christ. It is HIS DISCRETION as to where that is done-as he seeks God's guidance directly, and makes decisions accordingly. ======= Of course, there ARE orders where Christians make lifelong commitments to go where they are told to go, serve where they are told to serve, and leave when they are told to leave. Those are referred to by many names, among them Holy Orders, the Priesthood, and so on. Now, THOSE people don't just make ONE decision to enter one program and now they're the property of the organization. (No matter WHAT you were told.) They receive training, and counseling. They are questioned as to their commitment and reasoning. They receive more training, and are REQUIRED to meditate upon, and consider deeply, over and over, the consequences of their decision. It is FAR better for the organization to lose 90% of their candidates than for them to place unstable, corrupt people in all their offices. Those that decide to go ahead swear their oaths, and leave modern society, in a sense. THEY'VE sworn oaths of poverty and chastity and stuff I don't know about because I've never sworn their oaths. Now, THEY signed up for a lifetime serving their organization. That's very different from, say, being a leader who runs a twig for 5 years, then coordinates the next 4 classes, then smooths things over for the new Limb leader, then steps back and helps younger hands learn the basic skills of leading, then returns to run a twig for a few years again, then "semi-retires" and remains available to advise other, newer leaders. Now, did he serve a lifetime? Yes. Was it in Christian service? Yes. Was it where the ministry needed him? Yes. Is WD going to say "You've made a good point?" No. But to most people, the difference, once pointed out, should be obvious.

Well, since the Marines were what vpw pretended to base the Way Corps on, it would be a fair comparison... Fine. I'll go into the Army. Specifically, the West Point Military Academy. It's a college, with degrees like all accredited colleges. It's four years, with college classes and military stuff. Right in the applications and literature, VERY PROMINENTLY, the REQUIREMENTS are laid out SPECIFICALLY. One, once you are in attendance, you've a committment to all 4 years. Two, at the end of your training, you're committed to 4 years service in the Army, where you start at the rank of Second Lieutenant. Three, If you washed out of the academy, you are STILL committed to 4 years service in the Army, where you start at the rank of Sergeant. Obligations and requirements are crystal-clear. That's how SERIOUS commitments are made. Big difference between "training to serve God a lifetime and to lead a Twig" and "required to lead a Twig the rest of your life", which is how YOUR version would read. Please be consistent.

Igotout: "What Skyrider is alluding to is that the Way Corps 'commitment' we originally made became a 'we own you and you WILL do what we say for the rest of your lives' commitment. And if you didn't like it then you were dropped from the Corps if not kicked out all together from TWI. That's pure BS. Originally back when larger groups of us were going into the Corps by the hundreds (I was in the 7th, I believe Sky was in the 9th), it was not implied that there would be this "dog soldier leash" around your life after you graduated. Only much later did this become specifically stated. Heck, I remember LCM stating one evening at a Corps meeting in Emporia... 'Not all of you can become branch leaders. Many of you need to go out and get jobs and careers and go to college.' Well, some of us did. Later we were resented for it. Yes it was implied that once Corps always Corps. No prob. Think Marine Corps. You have had the training and served your country and now you serve in society as a better man for it. It was more promoted as another program like WOW or other such ministry commitments. A Wow Vet was not under this short leash and control, for example, to move every 3 years and such. Yet he is still a Wow Vet. I still have one of the old Corps Vet tee shirts which I would bet they discontinued in latter years. A lifetime of Christian service? No prob...Still doing the best I can. A lifetime of volunteer enslavement on a dog's leash? No way, Rosie!"

Shazdancer: "I was committed to God long before I went into the Corps. I signed up for Recognized Family Corps because I wanted the in-depth knowledge that the Corps was supposedly being taught, before my husband and I were to join Staff. We were accepted into the Corps on that basis. I still have a Recognized Corps certificate to prove it. Long after our in-res year, a couple of Corps leaders tried to explain to me that I had made a lifetime committment to the Corps program-to submit to evaluations, and go to any and all Corps meetings that were required. Silly me for requiring them to honor their agreement with me. I am just as committed to doing good and respecting God as I ever was, I just don't express it in the same way that I did while in TWI."

Skyrider, on the above... "Manipulation-mongers! They waited a couple months and then, slam-dunk our commitment level when we are behind CLOSED DOORS and surrounded by PEER PRESSURE. What a bunch of low-life tactics!..." "By the early 80s...the term 'cop out' had gained legs...and had evolved to mean... any corps person or corps grad who quit taking assignments. Twi changed the parameters. Now, it was a LIFETIME COMMITMENT to stand with twi. And that labelling is still in effect to this day."

GrouchoMarxJr weighed in on this one: "...And another thing that bugged the &$*# out of me while in residence, were their bait and switch tactics. When I signed up, I made a FOUR YEAR commitment. That was it! It was optional to take assignments upon graduation...at least, that's what they said in WRITING! A couple of months into the training, at Emporia, they tell us all that we have made a LIFETIME commitment to the corps!... and if we don't 'understand THAT'...then we are 'spiritually out to lunch'. I sat there listening to this crap, muttering under my breath that I only committed for 4 years, getting angrier by the moment as everybody just sat there with a glazed look on their faces saying 'yup, yup'..not me! I regret not packing my stuff up and splitting right then and there!"

Catcup said, concerning her time in the 6th corps, "When I signed up for The Way Corps, TWI represented to me that I would be training for upper leadership responsibilities that I had not yet held, and that when I graduated, I would hold an accredited degree. TWI misrepresented The Way Corps program specifically to those of us who went into the 6th Corps, revealing only AFTER we were already in residence, that we would NOT have a recognized accredited degree, and that they were training us to be twig leaders."

I'm unfamiliar with any written contract in the Greek for the way corps, and if you're referencing a "lifetime of service" from the Bible, you'd better supply the CHAPTER AND VERSE. I found the word "lifetime" in 2 places in the KJV New Testament, and neither referred to service of any kind. Very few people-in fact, I think it was possibly a maximum of 3- ever said that they thought the commitment to go into the way corps- which they PAID FOR- translated into a lifetime of servitude, moving when twi said 'move', living where twi said 'live', and generally hopping whenever twi said 'frog'. A lifetime serving God? Yes. Having the option of taking assignments? Yes. Lifelong servitude to the organization? No. Maybe assisting in various capacities thru the years, but not the slavery lcm espoused. There was NO written contract as to that. And if there HAD been, it would have been ridiculous to think that someday, people wouldn't get tired of being a puppet on a string and want autonomy.

I DO find that some people look to me for advice and guidance. I think it works because I DEMAND they have other sources as well, so I'm only one of many. twi encouraged/encourages an unhealthy dependence on one direction, so any weakness is spread down to the whole group. Generally, people who look to me for insight don't post here. (Occasionally, they'll read a page of a thread in disbelief, but otherwise they don't read here, either.)

Yes, it is true. If you were willing to accept the ostracism, the vicious lies spread about you by total strangers, the "threats" to your family of demons killing them ("which member of your family do you want to die next?" as one leader was quoted as saying) and leap out from under God's protection into a strange alien world where all other Christians were idiots- then there was ALWAYS the door.

CORRECT! T-Rex did "Get it On(Bang a Gong)". It was covered by Power Station in the 80s (1/2 of Duran Duran), with heavy work on the electric guitars. However, the closing line is only in the original ("but meanwhile, I'm stiiiilll thinking...")

I'd be skeptical about twi selling the copyrights- rather than LICENSING them or retaining them- without some documentation. I don't think they'd avoid taking the money- I think they'd grant a LICENSE to their copywritten material rather than hand it all over. Then again, maybe all the competent businessmen have been run off as well. :)