WordWolf

Jetc57 contrasted vpw's paranoia about assassins with his self-destructive addictions to alcohol and tobacco.

You didn't know? There's Drambuie references all over threads about him! :) One poster hosted him once, and said he accidently left Scotch bottles in sight. vpw studied them like he wanted to be offered some (it was early morning.) Someone said the reason he was always taking those mints and breaking them in his mouth was to hide the booze-smell. He smoked Kool shorties. People hosting him were given a 3-page list of preparations. Kool shorties were supposed to be on hand. The guy might well have turned into a pumpkin at midnight if he spent 24 hours without alcohol or tobacco.

No, I saw a miraculous snowstorm, and God said to click this thread to the top. That's nothing. Check the archives sometime- there's several more threads JUST on this subject.

Well, there's some things we DO know. We do know that Roza-lie had a lesbian couple living in her house at one point. (Check the photo archives off the main site.) This isn't proof of anything, in and of itself. We do know that Rozilla and Donna, when on trips, would not get separate rooms, nor a quad with 2 beds or whatever- they slept in the same bed. This, in and of itself, would have meant nothing in Abe Lincoln's time. Someone said they walked in on Donna and Rozycheeks just after "the crime was blazing". Then again, they MIGHT have been mistaken. ====== Given how contrived the "courtship" and marriage of lcm and Donna was (check the vp/wonderland thread), there's room for speculation. I can come up with LOTS of possibilities, but I won't. The BOT was the Board of Trustees, now known as the Board of Directors. The BOD is the Board of Directors. LMAO is internet slang-it's short for "laughing my aspirin off."

More on the subject, in fact, more on it than lcm did...

Here's one thread about lcm's stupid, stupid teaching about Eve.

Here's a thread about lcm's insipid replacement for pfal.

If this isn't a transparent "I want you to imitate me" thing,I don't know what is... They can stay as long as their money holds! We MUST have their money-can't stay without it. What do we value most? "The people." But the people better have money or we don't value them so much. Smoking is expensive. vpw knew that-he chain-smoked and all the money came from your ABS. Of course, this would have been a GOLDEN time to illustrate it was possible to stop smoking by stopping HIMSELF. After all, a leader doesn't expect things from the followers that he HIMSELF doesn't do.... Moreso than from himself, but this is no longer news. The others were smart and learned that lying to leadership WORKS! So much for the "people are what matter most" stuff... I was serious about kicking you out! But I changed my mind-if you have all our money, that is....

I don't know how I missed it, Oakspear. Business as usual. vpw started with the "I want your loyalty to me" in writing. lcm picked it up and tried it in 1989, but it didn't work.

You left out "chronic alcohol drinking" along with the "chronic tobacco smoking". vpw, when not at the biggest events, regularly had EITHER a cigar OR a cup in his hand-and it wasn't plain COFFEE no matter what you thought. He'd show up at morning meetings drinking. He was addicted to tobacco and alcohol, and years of feeding both addictions eroded his internal organs and their ability to cleanse out his body. With alcohol beating down the filtration systems, when he got cancer from all the tobacco-a known carcinogen- his body had nothing to use to fight with. Small wonder he deteriorated fast. The man was about as "clean living" as Jerry Garcia. (Jerry made it to 53 and looked 73.)

That's not good enough. The police departments across the country know that police are responsible for people's lives. So, they don't leave things up to folks' decisions. They fingerprint applicants and give them psychological tests, and background checks BEFORE training BEGINS. WOWs and corps faced NO screening process, which guarantees that, sooner or later, things will blow up in everyone's faces. I heartily agree-that's one of SEVERAL steps I'd have mandated. That's an excuse. It's STILL wrong. Which works A) If nobody's twisting arms selling the program-"you'll grow 10 years!" B) if everyone is completely honest about their maturity C) people with psychological and psychatric problems are excluded That's why screening processes EXIST. EVERYBODY has a screening process. It at least eliminates the worst cases. That's no excuse for carelessness and NOT TRYING.Even a BAD screening process would have been of SOME use. I'm glad we can agree that was wrong and unconscionable and bad. (Sometimes I wondered if we both still agreed that.) However, I was asking about the programs and staff and so on. Not so much the "vpw committed a felony on me personally" stuff, but the organizational bad things. Can you point to even one of those? I gave a few examples, you might choose one of those if you're drawing a blank.

Unqualified man is now completely in charge, and told not to have a guilty conscience or analyze past mistakes. This is a bad sign... They were right. corps PAID to join, then were assigned manual labour. What a cold statement. Was that due to HINDSIGHT,or was that always a cold decision? Naturally-he can hardly think for himself at this point. vpw would handle this entire business-find the woman, convince her to marry lcm, etc. Oh, we're suddenly skipping so, so much... I'd LOVE to have a transcript of what she was told.He'll be a bigwig in this ministry, this man you will marry. Was there ever a drop of love in this? Was it all cold calculations? lcm decides he should marry, vpw picks the woman, lcm agrees, vpw tells her she's landing a rich, influential husband. This is about as deep and passionate as those mail-order brides. They decided to marry but didn't know each other well. Anyone else catch that? Also, nice double-standard. Nobody else gets ANY privileges, lcm and his fiancee have a free pass to do whatever. SHE was embarassed?I'll bet anything VPW was the instigator. "Protocol", of course, means "you kiss up to vpw and do whatever he wants." What rule of "protocol" was this supposed to be? What set of rules of "protocol" was used as a standard? Amazing the corps never were assigned this "protocol", but that's ok-it only applied when in vpw's presence....

We already discussed this in this thread. Cowgirl mentioned it most prominently- and you cherry-picked off her post to find what you WANTED to see- and NOT the entire contents. Here is what SHE said.

Every time someone has brought up a situation, when it comes to you, the organization is NEVER to be blamed. twi puts people on an unsafe vehicle in unsafe travelling conditions, requires they travel, and they all end up in the hospital. Oldiesman: not twi's fault. twi requires women to hitchhike to and from an event location. Some women are raped on the trip. Oldiesman: not twi's fault. twi sends wows to unsafe cities and told to talk to every human, and to IGNORE any urges or impulses to the contrary (IGNORE REVELATION), and some are robbed, assaulted and/or rape. Oldiesman: not twi's fault. twi sends wows to cities, with unscreened corps overseeing them. One group of wows is MURDERED by the corps overseer. Oldiesman: not twi's fault. twi has people on grounds. Some of them are women who are drugged and raped by vpw, lcm, other higher-ups. Oldiesman: not twi's fault. twi has people on grounds. One man, faced with lcm having sex with his (the man's) wife, screams that he can't compete with lcm, then goes off and blows his brains out with a bullet from a pistol. Was THAT twi's fault? I know they didn't put the gun in his hand and pull the trigger, but are they FREE OF RESPONSIBILITY there? ===== Come, come, Oldiesman! Was ANYTHING EVER EVER EVER twi's fault? We've discussed over 5 years of things in front of you. Can you name even ONE where you believe you can point to the situation and say "this was terrible, and twi was entirely (or MOSTLY) to blame. twi took action they should not-which was criminal, or failed to act when they should-which was criminal, and if I had known at the time, I would have blamed twi for such evil, unconscionable actions"? Can you name ONE? We can name MANY. Obviously, in each situation, there is blame to go around, but Oldiesman always seems to skip over passing any to twi. They get a FREE PASS. Did I miss a situation? Can you name ONE? Even ONE? You keep claiming that you "base your judgement on the facts of each individual situation." Somehow, your "judgement", which is based on "facts", always absolves the organization of wrong-doing. If not, kindly cite the exception. There are hundreds of incidents we've discussed. Can you not find ONE where twi is majorly at fault? Doesn't that inability tell you something? THINK, MAN, THINK!

Oldiesman in italics, WordWolf in boldface. That is true-in addition to whatever blame goes to OTHERS. You do know that OTHERS get blame as WELL, right? No, you're going to demonstrate you don't know the first thing about responsibility-both legal and moral. But, let's see where you go with this. I think it's healthy to show your thinking. Partly. The Dept of Motor Vehicles' Drivers Manual DOES show the blind spots for trucks, and how you need to account for them, and how there's places the driver is physically UNABLE to see you. Well, as the driver of the truck, he is responsible for seeing it is handled in a safe fashion. Exactly WHICH of you was MORE responsible-or ENTIRELY responsible- depends on the specifics of how each of you handled your vehicles. The courts of the US allow for partial blame and partial responsibility. For example, if you drove into his blind spot and he did not exercise proper caution, you both SHARE the blame. Or, it might have been ENTIRELY the fault of one or the other. The car may have darted into the blind spot, or the truck may just have bulled its way thru the highway. I don't know enough here to know how that went. What you "feel like" has nothing to do with the truth of the events. But show us how you obscure things. Irrelevant. You are responsible for being in full control of your faculties when getting behind the wheel. If you were tired from work, it was YOUR responsibility for making sure you didn't drive, or you got rest before driving. Any driving school could tell you that. Any good driving STUDENT should know that. Your job is irrelevant. IF the car was unsafe- if it had defective brakes or handling as released from the factory- THEN Opel has blame. That's how factory recalls get started. IF the brakes were worn or the steering had degraded, it is the fault of the driver/owner for failing to maintain his vehicle in a safe fashion. So, as stated in your example (a car in average condition), Opel is irrelevant. IF there was something unsafe about the conditions of the highway, then either the city or state bears blame for that. Since they don't -the highway was average and maintained- the city and state are irrelevant. Does EVERYONE see how STUPID this was, or just me? This was the faults of one, the other, or both drivers, and it is possible to attempt to manufacture blame to others. Fine, serve the devil with legal papers and have him charged. No, that one is not twi's fault- unless they DEMANDED you drive at that moment when you were unsafe to drive. (IF a coordinator said "get here now or I'm kicking you out," and you replied "I haven't slept for 20 hours" and he said "I don't care-get here or you're fired from the program", THEN they bear some responsibility. OTHERWISE, they don't. Techically, you wouldnt have been on that highway, but they had no effect on your ability to drive, and that section of highway, AFAIK, is not famous as a dangerous driving hazard. So, they would bear no responsibility for the damage, AS STATED. (If you're hiding something, that would be different.) Fine, we agree on something. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what we were discussing. We HAVE shown that I can evaluate situations coldly and determine where blame logically belongs, and we HAVE shown that when faced with that, you bring up irrelevant events as a smokescreen to pretend they're related. This has been very informative to SOME of the people here.

I have a negative view towards the WOW program because it was poorly designed, poorly executed, and-used as it was designed and executed- messed up and/or ruined the lives of some Christians. God's people deserve better than a roll of the dice, especially when you PROMISE better. Are we trying to redesign a better twi? No-we're discussing the LIES that hid a grossly-inferior program "Do you really have a heart to see a BETTER TWI? Or have it destroyed?" Congratulations! It is now a new month, and that question rates as the stupidest question I've been asked for November 2005! It is AMAZING! You've been posting on WayDale and the GSC since before the year 2000, and you STILL have NO FRICKING IDEA who posts to this board nor why we post here. My screen-name is "WordWolf." I post at the GSC. I am an adult male. I have a sense of humour and remember quite a bit. Hello.

What does that have to do with the discussion? We're talking about the WOW program instituted and executed by twi. Almost everyone agrees on the following: -twi promised great spiritual growth for all participants -twi promised it oversaw a good program -twi pushed the program like it was the Holy Grail 1/2 of all programs (second only to the way corpse) -twi exercised NO quality control over applicants -twi skipped ensuring the applicants were experienced or trained except for taking pfal Foundational. -twi gave a few pep talks and NO real training -twi sent strangers out, unprepared and untrained, to areas they were foreign to. -twi chose target spots casually, with little, if any, study of the areas they sent people to -twi exercised NO quality control over applicants for their overseers (the corps) -twi did NOT carefully screen their overseers before sending them out (the corps) -twi arranged NO housing for WOWs (past a few days for arrival, possibly, in a FEW cases) -twi arranged NO jobs for WOWs All of that, just viewed on PAPER, is insufficient for both the PROGRAM's success and the INDIVIDUAL's growth-which, supposedly, is at least HALF its PURPOSE. We're not trying to repair the program. Are YOU? If so, please say so.

Come, come, Oldiesman! Was ANYTHING EVER EVER EVER twi's fault? We've discussed over 5 years of things in front of you. Can you name even ONE where you believe you can point to the situation and say "this was terrible, and twi was entirely (or MOSTLY) to blame. twi took action they should not-which was criminal, or failed to act when they should-which was criminal, and if I had known at the time, I would have blamed twi for such evil, unconscionable actions"? Can you name ONE? We can name MANY. Obviously, in each situation, there is blame to go around, but Oldiesman always seems to skip over passing any to twi. They get a FREE PASS. Did I miss a situation? Can you name ONE? Even ONE?

This may come as news to you, but baseball teams in the National or American Leagues (thus eligible to win the World Series) do NOT get players by just accepting whoever shows up. They accept only the top applicants in potential and TRAINING before they even open their door to applicants. Thus, a "draft pick" has shown skill in high school and college, with years of training and practice, and a proven track record. That's completely DIFFERENT from the wow program. Once an applicant is accepted, the applicant is then paid a huge salary, and is put thru day after day, week after week, month after month, of TRAINING. That's completely DIFFERENT from the wow program. So, they really do "put a team together". The wow program recruits with methods more closely resembling jury duty. You are almost selected at random, you open your mail, and say "I have to go serve!"

So can being a f*ing moron, or following the orders of a f*ing moron, or "following orders" when the orders were unsafe. Ask the Jonestown people how risky it was following orders, or the "Heaven's Gate" people chasing that comet. WordWolf said Oldiesman said If the orders OF the program, followed CORRECTLY,got someone robbed or beaten, the orders were WRONG and thus the program was WRONG. Thus, whoever allowed LIVES to be THREATENED by this turkey authorized a bad program, which is worthy to be condemned. Well DUUUUUUUHHH. Of course the CRIMINAL is to blame-LARGELY. Put him in jail, duh. But setting someone up to be a target FOR a criminal is wrong, and any program that does that is to be blamed. The WOW program set Cowgirl up to be robbed/beaten/whatever. (Unintentionally set up, but ignorance and stupidity of the consequences of their training is NOT an excuse. They trained her to be LESS safe than she normally was. "Grow 10 years?" They set her BACK.)

But, the program told people to IGNORE anything telling them not to speak-which means the program taught to IGNORE REVELATION. GOD was trying to keep her away from trouble, but FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS got her IN IT. (DUH. ) FALSE DILEMMA."Either she should never preach the Word, or the WOW program was correct!" WRONG. The situation is NOT as overly-simplistic as the program/Oldiesman makes it. Jesus himself spoke to SOME people and occasionally not others. You're a fan of vpw. Have you not ever heard him preach about the man at the Temple Gate Beautiful? The man was lain at the gate EVERY DAY. Jesus entered that gate and didn't minister to him. Why not? According to your over-simplification, the man who gave the command in Mark 16:15 was a hypocrite for failing to uphold it himself! HOWEVER, even vpw found a smarter answer: no revelation to speak to him. Therefore, not EVERYONE should be spoken to at EVERY time and EVERY place. HOWEVER, the WOW program taught the opposite. If it was more than just one or 2 pep-talks, and it didn't just accept "anyone with money", it would have been easy to cover the usage of revelation as determining WHO and WHERE and WHEN. It did NOT because the program insufficiently prepared its entrants. She SHOULD have listened to God-which she KNEW She was TOLD to IGNORE GOD- so eventually she did. (The instructions of the program were going to get her beaten, robbed, whatever.) Cowgirl was enough of a heavyweight that she and God got her out of that problem DESPITE THE WOW PROGRAM. Can you see it NOW? Depends. If she was FOLLOWING ORDERS TO THE LETTER, and something ungodly happened as a DIRECT RESULT OF THOSE ORDERS, then YES, THOSE ORDERS-AND THE PROGRAM THEREOF- are TO BE BLAMED. How difficult is it to see that? No, it was the DIRECT RESULT of WHERE she was sent and HOW she wasto conduct herself. It WOULD NOT have happened had she not gone. She would neither have been in the wrong place, nor following dumbass instructions given by dumbasses. ELSEWHERE she wouldn't have been starting conversations with unstable individuals. She was listening for God's warnings UNTIL THE WOW PROGRAM SAID NOT TO. She said so. Please PAY ATTENTION. Since it doesn't happen, there's no blame to assign.

Even in an abstract example, you can't help try to absolve the organization from wrongdoing. They're sending people to a location for one year, where they must find housing and jobs, survive the year, and speak about the Bible to people. Is the organization so CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT that they don't know EVERYTHING about the locations they are sending the Christians to? They could send them anywhere in the lower 48 fairly easily. The decisions on WHERE to send them and WHO to send should be made with exceeding care. Instead, whoever walked in with their money were sent, and whoever walked in with their money was in charge of them, and they were organized based on who had cars, and they were sent to different locations on whims or the toss of a coin. What part of that, if you had KNOWN that was how it was done, would have been ACCEPTABLE? Sending emotionally-unstable people out wow? Sending emotionally-unstable people in CHARGE of wows? Dumping the wows wherever? Claiming it was all by revelation when it was none of the kind? Or, would this have been UNACCEPTABLE had you known?