WordWolf

Ok. We took a look at vpw's own "speaking in tongues" experience in the "Way:Living in Wonderland" thread. I think it wasn't so much to help their believing, but to do something Stiles NEVER did with him. Stiles built his believing and walked him through speaking in tongues, then left and let vpw get on with his life. I think vpw had a special experience with God (speaking in tongues), and decided he'd try to slap a product label on it. Where others would lead Christians to speak in tongues, vpw would tie speaking in tongues to his organization, so you'd have to be on your way "in" to speak in tongues. People were actively discouraged from speaking in tongues before Session 12. They HAD TO connect speaking in tongues with PFAL, they HAD to. That made them dependent upon PFAL, and the organization that ran PFAL. I was back in the other thread. :) Right the first time, Roy! vpw wanted to be thought of as THE leader, which means he had to be seen as THE Teacher, THE Christian, the Most Special Christian. 'All other churches are doo-doo, only this one is good!' He also had to isolate the young and impressionable from OTHER Christians, so they could never see that some were quite good. To the STUDENT, yes.But vpw didn't really care about the individual STUDENT, so long as he had MOST of them. They were interchangeable and DISPOSABLE, even in the Way Corps. So, he got what he wanted. You've got it. Sadly, I think we all did.It's normal for someone to get excited and accidentally push, but vpw WANTED us to push. vpw HATED the Roman Catholic Church (as did lcm). He was sometimes vicious with their stuff back when he was with the Evangelical and Reformed Church, and he didn't "lighten up" when he ran his own show. Yes, and that was his PLAN. He WANTED it that way. I learned a lot, myself, in our examination of "his" book, "the Way:Living in Love."

Is Rita Skeeter in there, or were all her scenes left out of the script?

Statutory rape, as defined in "the Legal Dictionary": "sexual intercourse with a female below the legal age of consent, but above the age of a child, even if the female gave her consent, did not resist and/or mutually participated." Yep-sex with multiple 14 and 15 year olds is statutory rape. The only possible way to avoid this being a felony is to escape ONE count of this crime by obtaining PRIOR JUDICIAL PERMISSION and MARRYING that ONE minor. Sex between two individuals who have obtained a legal marriage license is not a crime. If he tried to escape ALL counts of STATUTORY RAPE, he would need PRIOR JUDICIAL CONSENT to marry EACH girl. As we know, judicial consent is not granted for the comission of a crime, and marrying more than one spouse is not legal in the US. Koresh did NOT obtain PRIOR JUDICIAL PERMISSION, so he committed multiple acts of STATUTORY RAPE. STATUTORY RAPE all by itself is a felony.Koresh had sex with more than one girl aged 14-15. Each such act was STATUTORY RAPE. Amazing how you're unable to comprehend this. The boiling point of water is 212 degrees Farenheit. So what? We're not talking about the FBI,we're talking about a MULTIPLE ACCOUNT RAPIST. Only YOU keep bringing up a supposed justification to commit murder. Then again, you refuse to call statutory rape what it is. That's not from any of our posts. Please do not invent straw men when supposedly discussing with us. You're ineligible for a marriage license at the age of 14 or 15, unless the COURT has reviewed your situation, and agreed you're a special exemption and can give informed consent, despite being legally a minor. Ever try entering into a legal contract with a minor? It won't work. Contract law specifies minors are legally unable to enter into contracts, or give informed consent to enter into contracts. (A contract is also voided if any of the parties are insane, since the insane are unable to give informed consent. That's in every contract-that's the sanity clause.) They DON'T allow that.The County Clerk of ANY county would disallow it. He would NOT issue a license, which is the legally-binding portion of a marriage. I posted a link to the County Clerk of Dallas' website, where this is spelled out. I posted a link to a judgement by the Texas Attorney General-the state's highest law officer, where he EXPLAINS all this. I recommend actually reading the linked sites and trying to understand them.

They did not BELIEVE it was sick. That made it no less sick, no less wrong, no less illegal. The guys in NAMBLA who want to have sex with little boys, they don't WANT to "break the law", they just want to have sex with little boys. They've constructed a sub-culture where it is permissible and acceptable to have sex with little boys. According to NAMBLA, the little boys would not be harmed if the adult males had sex with them. According to NAMBLA, they have no ill will towards the little boys and wish only good things for them. So, according to YOUR logic, a NAMBLA guy with "no criminal intent" who has sex with a little boy can't be charged with a crime. He claims he has not harmed the little boy, he has no "criminal intent", he claims the little boy has BENEFITTED from the experience and consented and so on. By YOUR logic, this makes what he did fine. By the laws of ALL 50 United States, that NAMBLA guy committed a felony, and will go to jail. (Where he will face other criminals who view child molestors as the lowest of the low-even to THEM they are reprehensible.) When he comes out of jail, entire communities would have to be notified of his whereabouts, in order to alert the parents that their little boys face an imminent danger. If John Law catches you in Texas having sex with a little boy, you WILL go to jail, you WILL be charged with a felony, and you WILL serve a sentence behind bars. If John Law catches you in Texas having sex with 2 15-year old females (the minimum possible scenario with Koresh), you WILL go to jail, and you WILL be charged with a felony, and you WILL serve a sentence behind bars. We're still discussing the STATUTORY RAPE COMMITTED by Koresh when he had sex with 14 and 15 year olds.

Nice site. It's NOT a an official site of the government of the state of Texas. As that site's disclaimer says, it is "not a substitute for personal legal advice from an attorney." According to their "Conditions of Use" disclaimer, "FreeAdvice is a legal publisher, and neither a law firm, nor a substitute for an attorney's advice, nor a legal referral service. By using FreeAdvice...you are agreeing that under no circumstances will the Company, its affiliates, or any lawyer listed on either site be responsible for (1) any information contained on or omitted from the site (2) any person's reliance on any such information, whether or not the information is correct, current or complete (3) the consequences of any action you or any other person takes or fails to take, whether or not based on information provided by or as a result of the use of the sites." In short, they're not legal experts and offer no guarantee ANY of their site's contents are accurate. But THIS is the site you picked to document your side. I used several. If you look, you'll see that I cited the official site for the Dallas County Clerk's Office. That's an official county in Texas. Marriages are not legal or recognized without a marriage license. I linked the page giving the requirements for obtaining a marriage license in Dallas County, which is bound by ALL the same requirements as the rest of the state. (Each county does NOT have different license requirements.) What are the license requirements? "JUDICIAL APPROVAL IS REQUIRED FOR ANY MARRIAGE UNDER 16. INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE 16 AND 17 MUST HAVE JUDICIAL APPROVAL OR PARENTAL CONSENT." In other words, an AUTHORITATIVE site said you were wrong, and an UNauthoritative site said you were right. (There's no DISCLAIMER on the site of the County Clerk's office.) So, marriages of a man to a 14 or 15-year old in Texas without PRIOR JUDICIAL APPROVAL are invalid, and they're unable to get married. Sex between an adult and a 14- or 15-year old minor in Texas with whom they are not married is STATUTORY RAPE. STATUTORY RAPE is the same as RAPE in regards to laws and sentencing. Furthermore, Koresh would be unable to legally obtain a marriage license for all of his sex partners. The state of Texas would issue ONE license at MOST. (It would not issue one for him and a 14-year old without PRIOR JUDICIAL APPROVAL.) Therefore, by definition, if he had sex with 2 or more girls of age 14 or 15, it would be impossible under ANY provision under Texas law (even if he DID get judicial approval for ONE) to avoid the charge of STATUTORY RAPE. It was immoral of him to exploit the office of leader to trick his congregation's women into having sex with him. Based on violations of fiduciary trust, some of the adults may have sued him in civil court, and may have won. It was both IMMORAL AND ILLEGAL for Koresh to have sex with 14-and 15-year olds. In the eyes of the law, a 14 or 15-year old is unable to give INFORMED CONSENT, which is why any exceptions would need prior review and approval by a judge (who is both a legal expert and holds the office of an executor of the law.) The state does acknowledge that it is possible that someone may find an exception where this may apply. It's obvious you were unable to understand the explanation given by the TEXAS STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL- which I linked- which explained WHY this is set up in this fashion. This is no surprise. If the sheriff is unaware Koresh is having sex with 14-year olds, he can't claim KoreshIS. Since the parents were hoodwinked, and the teens had diminished capacity due to age, no one had filed a report of STATUTORY RAPE. With no report filed, I don't expect the sheriff to just somehow know Koresh COMMITTED STATUTORY RAPE. The lack of a filed report does not mean that a crime has not occurred- just that an investigation has not begun since you can't investigate a crime you've never heard was committed, nor suspect happened. If you are murdered and no one ever finds the body (you just disappear), the murdered STILL committed a murder, which is a felony. If you are raped and never report it, you were still the victim of a felony. I don't need to watch a film to know that an adult male having sex with 14 or 15 year oldS in Texas is COMMITTING STATUTORY RAPE. Why did you not even suspect this, and why do you even question this? Fine. You're a supposedly healthy person, who is claiming that a felony was not a crime, and minors who were the victims of felonies were not victims of a crime, and you've claimed that sex with underage partners is not a crime in Texas. You've stopped short of literally ADVOCATING it as far as I see. Was that a lapse, or did I miss it, or would you like to claim 'adults SHOULD have sex with minors in Texas' and get this over with? For a supposedly-healthy person, you're already advocating FOR someone who committed statutory rape. If you had sex with a 14-year old in the US with whom you were not married, who was 1/2 your age, and she gave full consent in WRITING and VIDEO ahead of time, you'd still go to JAIL for "STATUTORY RAPE". That's a CRIME in the US. Don't you know what the term "jailbait" is? The "culture" of the Branch Davidians was the US culture. Waco is in TEXAS. That's in the US. They get tv and radio-the same channels as the rest of us. Etc, etc. Further, if you married someone, then had sex with a minor with whom you are not married, that's "STATUTORY RAPE" and ILLEGAL in this country. Further, if you married more than one minor, that's "BIGAMY" and ILLEGAL in this country. David Koresh broke the LETTER of the law with his boinking the women of "his congregation", no matter WHAT justification he gave. You may have forgotten, but "freedom of religion" does not allow you to commit crimes as defined in the Laws of the US. That was reiterated in the court documents presented to twi in one of their cases. People have the right to believe as they wish, and teach as they wish, but they may not commit crimes, nor incite to commit crimes, nor conspire to commit crimes. === Besides it being ILLEGAL, it was also IMMORAL. "David Koresh" abused his office when he defined procedure and said all the women were supposed to have sex with him. Even if "everyone knew about it and approved", you're still ignoring that when an authority figure REDEFINES things for you, and establishes social structures that REINFORCE that, it doesn't steal all freewill from the person, but it means they are no longer thinking in a fair and objective fashion. (Perhaps you still don't see that, ever.) So, it is wrong for a religious leader to take a woman (or man), arrange things in his favour, pressure him/her to have sex with him, and claim it's perfectly fine. WHETHER OR NOT HE DRUGS HIM OR HER. It's wrong no matter WHO does it.

The organization calling itself "The Way International" (also known as "the Way Ministry") claims its founding was in 1942. The old radio programs of vpw supposedly started that year -Vesper Chimes, Chimes Hour Youth Caravan. "The Way" was incorporated OFFICIALLY in 1957. vpw was an Evangelical and Reformed minister until 1957. That was the year he and "Uncle Harry" bought out the other brothers, and set up the corporation. Since it was supposedly a non-profit corporation (churches don't pay taxes) and doing so that year meant they didn't have to pay any taxes on the farm. The classes didn't begin until 1953, when vpw sat through BG Leonard's class twice, then began teaching BG Leonard's class and calling it "HIS" class-PFAL. The ministry didn't really experience growth until 1969, when vpw "hijacked the hippies"- tricking legitimate Christian youths into becoming his sales force for pfal, producing explosive growth in New York and California. So, what year it started in depends on where you're counting from. Counting from 1942, to say the least, is deceptive. ======== At the moment, they're claiming people in a lot of other countries. That includes military temporarily stationed in a country, and other ways to claim you have people in a country when it's really one or two people in an entire country. Notice they never give how MANY people they have-either WORLDWIDE or per country. At the moment, twi, for all practical purposes, exists ONLY in the United States. For that matter, their existence in the United States is a tiny, almost insignificant thing. There are perhaps 2000 adults currently in the entire organization. There are some LOCAL churches that are much bigger than that in ONE location, and most that have multiple "branches" in a city can equal or best that for their city alone. So, TWI is "small potatoes"- except for the people whose lives they ruin.

I keeps reminding me of a similar line in "Only the Good Die Young".

Texas law... Without consent of a parent or legal guardian, the age is 18. (At which point you have achieved your majority.) WITH consent of parent, the limit is 16, UNLESS YOU HAVE A COURT ORDER. http://www.coolnurse.com/marriage_laws.htm http://www.weddingvendors.com/marriage-lic...d-states/texas/ http://www.dallascounty.org/html/citizen-s...ge-license.html It was a crime, you sicko. Koresh had sex with 14-year olds. He did not have court orders saying he was married to them. Therefore, EACH sex act with a 14-year old or a 15-year old was an act of STATUTORY RAPE, which is equivalent to RAPE in the eyes of the State of Texas. It's obvious you have no idea WHY there's an age limit. Here's the Office of the State Attorney General of Texas, the leading LAW OFFICER's office for Texas, explaining the rationale. http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/op47mattox/jm-0359.htm Judge Mattox communicates in plain English. Thus, I expect everyone ELSE to see the WHY of it when reading this.

He MISrepresented a large amount of material, giving ZERO attribution. ZERO attribution for the work of others is a crime. He said that of PFAL,and the first PFAL classes were transliterations of Leonard. The only thing he "put together" there was HIS name and Leonard's work. Then he added Bullinger, Kenyon and Stiles, AGAIN giving NO attribution. That's 3 more crimes. Amazing how you STILL don't "understand" what plagiarism is. You are UNWILLING to comprehend it. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/editorial/pl...m-wierwille.htm Your "definition" of plagiarism falls FAR SHORT of the legal definition, both in practice and theory. Wrong. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/editorial/pl...m-wierwille.htm

Just curious- were those trips like Donna and Rozilla took, with the one suite with the single bed, or just normal extravagant trips? Or was it unclear which?

Ok, so you're saying that it was perfectly fine-moral AND legal- for "David Koresh" to impregnate all the women in the kingdom (did they all belong to the king?) from age 14 and up, because that's their ways, although they are strange to us. If you had sex with a 14-year old in the US with whom you were not married, who was 1/2 your age, and she gave full consent in WRITING and VIDEO ahead of time, you'd still go to JAIL for "STATUTORY RAPE". That's a CRIME in the US. Don't you know what the term "jailbait" is? I'm unsure whether or not it is actually legal to marry a 14-year old in ANY state, so I'll skip addressing that one. The "culture" of the Branch Davidians was the US culture. Waco is in TEXAS. That's in the US. They get tv and radio-the same channels as the rest of us. Etc, etc. Further, if you married someone, then had sex with a minor with whom you are not married, that's "STATUTORY RAPE" and ILLEGAL in this country. Further, if you married more than one minor, that's "BIGAMY" and ILLEGAL in this country. David Koresh broke the LETTER of the law with his boinking the women of "his congregation", no matter WHAT justification he gave. You may have forgotten, but "freedom of religion" does not allow you to commit crimes as defined in the Laws of the US. That was reiterated in the court documents presented to twi in one of their cases. People have the right to believe as they wish, and teach as they wish, but they may not commit crimes, nor incite to commit crimes, nor conspire to commit crimes. === Besides it being ILLEGAL, it was also IMMORAL. "David Koresh" abused his office when he defined procedure and said all the women were supposed to have sex with him. Even if "everyone knew about it and approved", you're still ignoring that when an authority figure REDEFINES things for you, and establishes social structures that REINFORCE that, it doesn't steal all freewill from the person, but it means they are no longer thinking in a fair and objective fashion. (Perhaps you still don't see that, ever.) So, it is wrong for a religious leader to take a woman (or man), arrange things in his favour, pressure him/her to have sex with him, and claim it's perfectly fine. WHETHER OR NOT HE DRUGS HIM OR HER. It's wrong no matter WHO does it. =========== Maybe so, but each poster answers to his or her own conscience, Oldies.Neither you nor I set policy, and can neither forbid nor compel posting on a subject. He announced what he intends to do. Don't like it? Complain to the admins. Yeah, man, that prophet Nathan, he was a biggie on tearing down, and that Jeremiah, too.... and those watchmen on the walls of the city-they were downers, disturbing the quiet of the city and worrying everyone... and Woodward and Bernstein, they were such alarmists....

You didn't read him as closely as you thought. He said he's focusing on ONE area, and not addressing ANOTHER area. Period.

"Tito Puente's gonna be dead, and you're gonna say, 'Oh, I've been listening to him for years, and I think he's fabulous.'"

Was the "hallucinating" line during the famous "pizza delivery in class" scene? That's where I pictured it.... I'm surprised you didn't go with "Hey dude-let's party!", Spicoli's commentary on encountering a wave when surfing. I still LOVE the after-movie notes. If I remember correctly, Spicoli saved Brooke Shields from drowning, then blew the ENTIRE reward by hiring Van Halen to play his next birthday party, or something similar. Hm. I need a movie....

I found this on another thread and didn't want to lose this. "My time with Donna was during the time period of 1978-80. At that time she was an arrogant, mean-spirited b*tch in her late twenties. She coveted after power....she explained to a bunch of us once that when she was 'husband-hunting', she had dated numerous top twi leaders, dropping names of 1st and 2nd corps guys. She said that when she got to craiggers, she knew he was the one. Why? Because she knew that he was going to 'the top' as she put it. She somehow knew that she was destined to be on the top rung of the twi ladder and she got herself there. It's almost like the story of MacBeth- ambition, power, money. She was willing to put up with lcm's adultery in order to maintain her position as 'first lady of twi'- it was a simple tradeoff. Her disgust with her husband was only exceeded by her own lust for power and position. Today, she probably feels like she 'earned' the right to live in the corps chalet for all the years of putting up with bozo. Of course, with her sexual orientation being in question, perhaps she is still 'earning' her position as 'first lady of twi'?" "That's exactly what she told ME once in a conversation. She told me (this was late '70s) that she had decided years before she would do Whatever It Takes to 'get to the top'. She was totally committed to being a top hot dog (as they used to say.) She was very calculating. Although, back when she was young, to look at her, you never would have thunk it because at one time, she was a wonderful, compassionate person who truly did have a heart for people. In fact, I think it was that quality that helped get her to the 'top.' She is where she is now by deliberate, scheming decision." ========= This, you may remember, is from the book... "LCM finally decided he needed to get married. He goes to Dr and lets him know his thoughts and seeking advice. Dr promised he'd look out for a good woman for him. Later, LCM decided to marry Donna and immediately told Dr. Dr said 'She's a good woman' and then rode off quickly on his motorbike. LCM found out later that he had gone at once to call Donna and talk to her to let her know and understand fully what she was getting into with LCM. He was going to be a great leader in the ministry and she had to be prepared to handle herself accordingly, etc."

That last one sounds like Jeff Spicoli, from "Fast Times at Ridgemont High". I'm pretty sure it was NOT a "Bill and Ted" movie- there were no actual mentions of drugs in those that I'm aware of (like "Quaaludes.") Then again, maybe it's something like "Half-baked"...

The last "report" we had of him was: -if you ask TWI, you won't get an answer, but will get you in trouble -he lives in Toledo, Ohio -at one time, he worked for UPS (United Parcel Service) -he works part-time as a personal trainer at a Bally's gym in Toledo, Ohio. -he is trying to avoid notice by us -he is living (perhaps this is old) in the same house as a doctor -he is not divorced, and asking about THAT won't get an answer, but will get you in trouble -he seems to be living comfortably, as if twi money is coming to him and paying his rent and bills

It figures. God forbid that the bot/bod would actually stop spending money like they had Bill Gates' piggy bank. So, the cuts were made everywhere else.....

They were referring to the guy who preached in the cornfield and died young from poisoning his body, like Jerry Garcia. Only Jerry was a nicer guy.

The wizard of oz was a fraud. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" If he worked in a cornfield, he would be a cornfield wizard. :)

Since you skipped over 2 drafts of my summary, Oldies, and homed in on jkboehme's post after, and did an EVASIVE MANEUVER when I pointed this out, I take it that you find my summary (except as corrected in the timetable in the second draft) unassailable as written. That's good. It shows me I don't have to go thru many more drafts from here. :D

Since you skipped over 2 drafts of my summary, Oldies, and homed in on jkboehme's post after, I take it that you find my summary (except as corrected in the timetable in the second draft) to be correct as written.

I took down some notes on all the dates in this book. So, I'll copy and edit my previous summary... ========= Let's see. What did vpw AUTHORIZE to be revealed about himself..... victor paul wierwille was born to a large family of German descent. Each child had their own chores. Little Victor chose to neglect his chores, and would vanish for hours into the woods nearby. When he was young, he once told a minister that he wanted to be a man of God like him. Other than this statement, Little Victor showed no actual involvement in the church, no actual effort or work in the things of the church. So, this seems to suggest an interest-not in being a man of God- but in being the man the whole community turned out to see, to have their respect. As a teenager, young Vic continued to lack any qualities of a man of God. In fact, he went out of his way to earn a reputation going in the opposite direction. He was a bully, a showoff and a braggart. He did all sorts of things for attention. He was quick to start a fight or mouth off at others. He had a quick wit. One of his common ways of showing off was to tear up and down the streets of New Knoxville on his motorcycle, trying to get attention. His demonstrated talents seemed to be limited to his quick wit and his ability to play a guitar, which he showed competency in. Old Man Wierwille was preparing to pass on the family farm to young Vic, as was the family tradition. Young Vic balked at this. He'd had plans to go to college. At first, he considered a few fields-business and so on- but by this time, he had decided upon the seminary. (This was before the time he referred to as "believing the Bible as the Word of God".) Old Man Wierwille was skeptical of this, and said that young Vic, having shown lack of hard work on simple manual labour on the farm, would never make a good preacher. Young Vic convinced him he would do better with books than with sweating out in the field. Young Vic went to school for the ministry. His community thought it was some kind of joke- everyone knew he lacked the proper character. (He never overcame that impression with them.) Victor had the option to study "Bible Languages" or other subjects requiring hard study. He instead chose to study Homiletics, the "softest" option he could have learned. (He never overcame his deficiency in study in Bible languages, church history, etc.-not even to the level of an informed layman as of 2004.) Victor was married in 1937, and entered Princeton Theological Seminary in 1940, to earn his Masters in Practical Theology. He did his "trial sermons" in 1941 in Payne, Ohio for the Evangelical and Reformed Church. (His first pastorate began in 1944 in Van Wert, Ohio, and continued until 1957.) Victor entered his first pastorate and wasted little time becoming a bully and a control freak AGAIN. He himself claims he started his job by immediately doing whatever the elders told him not to do- even though it hampered his ability to do his job properly. According to him, they confronted him on this, he mouthed off at them, and they just let him go about his business, and the local church prospered as a direct result of him. He was known for building a fairly interesting sermon, and getting people involved, including the youths. (This was STILL before the time when he claimed he believed the Bible was the Word of God.) He said the following year, (1942) he slowly became discouraged and was searching. He was still the man he had been, which is to say he was prideful, arrogant, boastful, liked attention, and viewed the clergy as a PROFESSION and not a holy calling. (He could have been just as "called" as an accountant or actuary, say.) During 1942, he claimed he was ready to give up being a minister. About a year later (Payne, 1942, August), he meets Rosal1nd R1nker. This woman fixed a great deal of attention on him, and had a forceful personality. She spent some time with him alone. It was of this time that he later claimed he asked forgiveness of God. He also credits her with DOGGING HIM "on the Bible being the Word of God", and she "got me STARTED on the right track". which, until this time, he hadn't believed, not even in all his years of school. During 1942, he claimed he was ready to give up being a minister in August AND September. One month later (September 1942), an event happened that he later showed a habit of re-writing. As Victor told God he was getting ready to quit (again), He claimed that God spoke to him and said He (God) would teach him (Victor) His Word (God's Word) like it had not been known since the 1st century, if he (Victor) would teach it to others. (This is the famous 1942 promise.) Victor of course lacked the education in church history to contextualize this claim-since it was inaccurate as stated. This implies that this was a made-up story, or it came from a god lacking knowledge in history. Victor later added a second part to his story- a snowstorm. He said that he required PROOF of God, and asked God to let him see it snow. A moment later, he opened his eyes, and he saw a veritable blizzard out his window. The later addition to this story suggest that he felt it needed more support after using the initial story. Victor showed no marked improvement, neither in character, nor in behaviour, thru the rest of the 1940s (nearly the entire decade after this supposed promise), which strongly supports the rather direct assertion that he lied thru his teeth. In the 1940s, vpw does a radio show- Vesper Chimes, aka Chimes Hour Youth Caravan. Rhoda joined its staff in 1947. At one point, Rufus Moseley attempts to minister Holy Spirit to vpw, but vpw demonstrates an inability to receive it. In 1951, vpw makes another claim he's ready to give up on the ministry (even after, supposedly a direct promise of God about really important stuff which promptly failed to materialize.) In November, 1951, vpw attends the Full Gospel Rally, in Tulsa, Oklahoma (a big Evangelical conference.) He made several claims of this conference. People at the conference OTHER than vpw supposedly had no difficulty beginning speaking in tongues. He claims he faked speaking in tongues in a clever way, and others were unable to tell. He is further disillusioned about working for God. He then claims a miraculous snowstorm blocked him into the city entirely, and ALL evidence there was that there WAS no blizzard (and there was a WEALTH of evidence-at the airports, Amtrak and bus depot, the hotel staff, the attendees, etc) was concealed by angels. vpw also, apparently, never approached a window, or they made an illusion at the window. Supposedly, a woman comes up to him and tells him that she knows a man who can help him- JE Stiles. He claims God told Stiles to attend the conference with the sole purpose of ministering the Spirit to vpw. vpw meets with Stiles, and makes a few chauvanistic observations to himself, before going off with Stiles. Stiles works with him for hours and hours, hammering across to vpw what the Bible says on speaking in tongues, and working over his doubts one by one for hour upon hour. Finally, vpw was able to speak in tongues. It was during the 1950s that vpw's behaviour was noted to finally improve, although he still did not stop including inappropriate words or concepts in his sermons. In 1953, vpw finds out about BG Leonard, and pushes his way into BG Leonard's CTC Gifts of the Spirit class, which Leonard permits. vpw takes this class twice, bringing several people with him the second time. vpw then went off for a few months by himself, then told Leonard that he'd like to run Leonard's CTC Gifts of the Spirit class locally for his congregation on a one-time basis. Seeing the benefit to other Christians, Leonard agrees. vpw then runs the first of "his" PFAL classes, and takes a photograph of that class. He tells the students that this is "his" class called PFAL, with NO mention of Leonard's class from which 100% of the content has been directly lifted. The students have no reason to think he's lying. vpw sends the photograph to Leonard and said tells Leonard that this is a photo of the class that took Leonard's class on a one-time basis that was run locally. Leonard takes vpw at his word, and has no idea that vpw continues to run Leonard's class with vpw's name on it, defrauding both Leonard AND the students. To this day, many students STILL think this was was vpw's class, even when evidence is introduced to the contrary. Later, vpw added the contents of JE Stiles' work on "Gifts of the Spirit" and Bullinger's work on the Holy Spirit as well as "How to Enjoy the Bible", and expanded the class into a class that was the sum of the 3 men's work-Stiles, Bullinger and Leonard-rather than just Leonard. vpw later makes a few offhand comments here and there that the material in the class is not original, but its compilation was. (However, as it was constructed, vpw could have been sued by copyright holders for Bullinger, Stiles, and Leonard. Leonard found out but chose not to prosecute.) vpw runs "his" PFAL classes continually from 1953 onward, with some success. From 1955 to 1957, vpw, his wife and oldest son do a tour of the mission fields in India, on the Evangelical and Reformed Church's dime. He is irritated that he's reminded he is not officially designated as a spokesman or investigator of theirs. There he meets Bishop KC Pillai, whom he later invites to teach. In 1957, vpw returns to Van Wert. He cuts his ties with the Evangelical and Reformed Church, and takes "his" PFAL class with him. In 1957, he and Harry buy out their brothers and buy the family farm outright. Rather than take ownership themselves, they declare it the property of "the Way", a church organization (thus tax-exempt.) Work begins on fixing up the farm. In 1959, he runs a Wisconsin Summer Camp. In 1960, he runs an Indiana Summer Camp. In 1961, he moves to the farm (refurbishment being sufficient for the move). Bishop Pillai arrives and teaches at the summer school. In 1961, he runs a Miamisburg, Ohio Summer Camp. In 1962, he moves the summer school to the farm (refurbishment being sufficient to hold classes there.) In 1962, Lamsa teaches at the summer school. (Lamsa is another unconventional teacher who claims special knowledge of the Bible and special status as a man of God.) In 1963, vpw goes to Lima, Ohio and films the sessions called "the Teacher". (Despite this, success STILL has not taken off as vpw wished.) In 1967, vpw reads about the Christians at the House of Acts. vpw goes there, impresses them, and convinces them he has extensive, EXCLUSIVE knowledge they lack. He then turns those he can from unorganized Christians into a recruitment arm for his class and organization. They agree to handle things on the East and West coasts, and many young Christians are impressed with THEM and join. As of 1969, sizeable numbers of young people had flocked to twi from both coasts as a result. Once there was sizeable membership in both coasts, vpw pushed out the Christians from the House of Acts and insisted authority would come FROM hq and tithes would go TO hq. No exceptions. At that point (1969), vpw made his first attempt at a Way Corps, which resulted in the famous "Zero Corps". vpw also organized a WOW program. ============ Ok, that's better, and corrected the dates. I STILL need to put something better about Lamsa (I'm open to suggestions), and I'm missing the timeframe for Dr EE Higgins, his "fan" who called and visited all the time. Also, I could use some more dates for the radio show and a few words on "the Teacher" film.

There WAS a similar statement in "Babylon Mystery Religion" about shotguns. When I heard lcm say it, he used "machine-gun". So, I suspect he got it from there. I'm sure he got it from SOMEWHERE. And BMR was in the bookstore and an easy read. Besides, he commonly shouted about its other contents as well (like obelisks and so on.) Of course, BMR was WRONG and its author repudiated it later, and published "the Babylon Connection", but don't let THAT stop lcm. I suspect he never heard that book existed...

I heard that all the references to S.P.E.W. were removed. I can understand that, but I'd still like them in there. Then again, the last movie SHOULD have at least mentioned Cedric Diggory by name. For those who saw the movie but not the books, when Harry fell and his broom got smashed, The Hufflepuff Seeker caught the Snitch, ending the match. The other Seeker was Cedric Diggory, and he wanted to disqualify the catch due to the reason, but the referee let it stand as a Hufflepuff win. The ref was wrong. According to "Quidditch Through the Ages", no non-player is allowed to interfere with the play on the field. But this established that Cedric Diggory had some skills (he caught the Snitch in a lightning storm) and honour (he didn't want to win if it wasn't "fair".) It's understandable and expected in the series, and moreso in the movies, that the action focuses on Gryffindor versus Slytherin, and skips Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw to a degree. (They get a raw deal, really.) Each House has members chosen because of the presence of certain qualities. In the case of Gryffindor, it's bravery, with Slytherin, it's cunning and ambition, with Ravenclaw, it's intelligence, with Hufflepuff, it's talent and persistence. Contrary to what some people thought about Hufflepuff before Book 4, Hufflepuff isn't just where the slow-wits go. If you remember Book 1, Harry was actually evaluated for all four Houses, and could have ended in Hufflepuff instead of Gryffindor or Slytherin. (It would not have been the BEST fit, but it would have worked.) The Head of Ravenclaw House is Professor Flitwick (Charms). The Head of Hufflepuff House is Professor Sprout (Plants/Botany). Neither of them seems to lack skills-Professor Sprout seems to be, if anything, possibly the best Hogwarts TEACHER in terms of getting the most from her students (Neville EXCELS at Sprout's classes.)