WordWolf

I'll be glad for anything you share. Ok, you were IN the Corps and heard NOTHING about it, no "if you're willing to take it" bs. Hindsight is 20/20. I'm trying not to judge those who indulged too harshly, since I don't know what social pressures were brought to bear. As to "predisposition", it appears as if this was like a number of things with twi, that people who were likely "candidates" were prescreened, and that those who were more likely to go along were the ones that were approached. We DO know who started this talk (we have an eyewitness account on the twi-Wonderland thread.) I wish we had a copy of the "screening criteria", that would be a fascinating read.... Seems that the twigs, in your area and at that time, didn't see that sort of thing going on amongst them.

Ahem. I called for EVERYTHING, no matter how small it seems to you, so long as it falls in the timeframe, and you don't type full names so search engines don't register the name. It may seem small to you, but be the missing piece to SOMEONE here.

Clicking this up since someone asked about it....

Just for curiousity, was Navigator a Christian group like Lighthouse? I noticed the Christians J*hn and D*rcie weren't into spouse-swapping, but, then again, they hadn't gone into the Corps yet. That may be connected. (Or it may not.)

Do you honestly think that lcm wouldn't have just manufactured an excuse if an excuse wasn't already at hand? He made up the "Word is over the World" thing out of NOWHERE! One painting became a segment in his class and a doctrine about original sin!

Now, see, that's something us later arrivals may not necessarily have HEARD. In the interests of fairness, I'd like a corroborating account from ANOTHER poster. Did anyone else see that sort of thing 1974-1975? Anyone heard that sort of thing 1974-1975? (Remember you can tell me anonymously..) There's something ELSE I missed. Illuminati? Anyone? I can't wait to compare accounts of THIS announcement to lcm's announcement that the Word was over the whole world in the 90s.... I'm going to ask EVERYONE who was in during the Bicentennial to share on it in the next thread...looks like we'll be spending a lot of time there. (Thanks for the early warning. I WAS planning on cutting the following threads to 5-year blocks, with 2 threads per decade.) What about these conspiracy theories, everyone? Someone mentioned the John Birch Society once. Then there's the Marxist Minstrels, and some of that stuff. PLEASE continue ALL your stories, no matter who or what. (Just mind giving out full names, as usual.) Please share what you remember with the rest of us. Impurities? Pineapple? Please explain.

Anything and everything you'd like to share with everyone, except full names. I do not know what I'll find, nor do I have expectations. I'm trying to fill in the details the best I can. Observations about local activities, state-wide activities, national activities, comments made on tape, anything. Observations on local stuff plus House of Acts would help.Even using the twi-released stuff, the timeline is inconsistent and incomplete on that in particular, and it seems to be important. And did you actually call hq "Valhalla" or was that just this post? Thanks. I'll begin correcting my timeline on that the best I can, the next iteration of it. :) BTW, what year were the House of Acts Christians muscled out of things? When were H33fn3r and D00p shown the door? Hm. The Life Magazine article was on something that could be considered breaking news. Interesting.

Then you know more than I do, there. I'm trying to construct a more complete picture of the ENTIRE history of the organization. Each person's experience was different, but I'd like a more complete picture of the ENTIRE time so anyone who wants can get a grounds-eye-view of what happened. And yes, where there are trends, this will help make them clearer, but I'm looking for EVERYTHING, not just the trends. 1975 in Houston, 1 Corps grad. 1975 in Houston, no power struggles, no hq heavy involvement. ROA was egalitarian-everybody shared. Bible study, PFAL and other classes, period. When we cover the late 70s, I'd love to hear the '78 story. I want to do this one thread at a time so the threads don't get confused with each other.

Correct! And I didn't even have to go to my second quote! Go, Sharon.

Hello. I'm asking for anyone who joined or was in contact with twi in the years starting with their membership explosion. I'm setting the target years for this thread to begin just before the earliest members of the explosion, to before the US Bicentennial. Due to so many events and recollections for the time-frame, I'm cutting it before 1976. I'm hoping this will help keep stories focused better so people won't get lost. Those of you around then, please share ANY and ALL observations, no matter how insignificant you think they are. They may prove invaluable to the rest of us. ===== Here's a rough timeframe of some events in this time-period.... We begin in 1967. According to the 198 memorial booklet timeline, 1967 is when "Are the Dead Alive Now?" was published, and PFAL was filmed. Birth control pills became available in 1967, as were early legal abortions for cause. According to TW:LIL, 1967 was vpw's trip to the House of Acts and the Haight-Ashbury area, and his recruiting some Christians there for his organization. According to the memorial, his trip there was in 1968. In 1968, Martin Luther King was assassinated. As of 1969, sizeable numbers of young people had joined twi from both coasts. In 1969, vpw pushed out the Christians from the House of Acts, and demanded authority be from hq only, and money would go there only. In 1969 was the Zero Corps. (Later years produced the numbered Corps.) 1969 was Woodstock, at Max Yazger's farm in Bethel, NY. 1969 was when the first astronauts walked on the moon. In 1970, Life Magazine published "the Groovy Christians of Rye", on the Rye "beachhead" at Rye, NY (near Rye's Playland). In 1970, Ohio National Guardsmen open fire on a war protest at Kent State University, killing 4 students who became known as the Kent State 4. ("Four dead in Ohio.") In 1971, Time Magazine did one page on vpw. In 1971, vpw began his WOW Ambassador program, complete with hand-signal. According to his memorial, 1971 was when the Orange Book (PFAL) was published. (Leonard's class plus Bullinger's "How to Enjoy the Bible".) In 1971, various pamphlets called "Studies in Abundant Living" are collated and printed as Volumes 1,2, and 3 of "Studies in Abundant Living". 1972 is the Watergate scandal under Nixon. 1973 is the first Arab Oil Embargo, which limits gas and prices skyrocket. 1973, Roe vs Wade makes abortions generally legal. 1973, Ford becomes vice-president. In 1974, Emporia College in Emporia, Kansas is bought. It is renamed "the Way College of Emporia." Despite an absence of accreditation, licensed professors, and a school "library" composed ENTIRELY of used textbooks donated by way members, it is put forth as if it is a normal, accredited college. 1974, Ford becomes president. 1974, the US is in its worst recession since the Great Depression. In 1975, "Jesus Christ is Not God" is published. (This is the last book put together by vpw, unless you count Vol 4 in Studies in Abundant Living.) (We cut off this thread in 1975.) In 1976, campuses are purchased in Rome City, Indiana ("the College of Biblical Research") and Gunnison Colorado ("Camp Gunnison-the Way Family Ranch.") ==== Please note, if you need to be anonymous, you can pm it to me and I can take the information and put it in my vocabulary and writing style. Otherwise, please post directly here. (Hm. 1965 was when cigarettes were REQUIRED to have the Surgeon General warning.)

Still looking for any accounts....

My personal experience of him was quite different than most. When I interacted directly with him, he seemed a nice guy, levelheaded, and not off-the-mark. At the time, I was SCRUTINIZING him whenever I was around him, looking SPECIFICALLY for signs of problems. I did not find any. Granted-I'm possibly the only one here who can say that, and many people had negative experiences here and dealt with him more than a few weeks, but I wanted to put that out there. Under no circumstances am I claiming this made anyone else's situations no less real, nor am I saying this excuses him for what happened to them. My good experiences happened, and their bad experiences happened. (And they outnumber me.)

Shall we shave their heads now, or wait til they're lining up for Kool-aid or Flavour-Aid?

Hail, hail Paw! Who's appreciated far more than he knows.

"Lately he's been overheard in Mayfair."

Hello. I'm asking for anyone who's here who was actually IN twi or exposed to them regularly (neighbor, worked nearby) for the earliest years. If we can hear from people from before 1953, that's fantastic. However, I'm arbitrarily setting my target for what I consider the earliest I could reasonably expect people. So, I'll provide a mini-chronology of events from that timeframe to help you fix in your memory whether or not you were there. If you were, please share ANY and ALL observations, no matter how insignificant you think they are. They may prove invaluable to the rest of us. This was twi: the early years. 1953-1966. By all accounts, this starts with the first events that might draw people, and ends just before the membership explosions which began 1967 or 1968 with the hijacking of the hippies. (Depending on the source- TW:LiL says 1968, the 1985 memorial said 1967.) So, here's a few things that happened in that timeframe: 1953: BG Leonard's CTC class; first "PFAL" classes taught. 1953: JE Stiles' "Gifts of the Spirit", first edition of "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today" constructed from Stiles' book. [somewhere in this timeframe] Bishop KC Pillai takes PFAL, and teaches Orientalisms 1955-1956 or 1957. vpw does his world tour: India (supposedly also Great Britain, Europe, and "the Bible lands".) 1957: vpw quits the Evangelical and Reformed Church officially (or is forced to leave.) 1957: the farm is bought, work begins on it. 1959-1961: summer camps other than at the farm. 1961: vpw moves to the farm and conducts operations from there (at the BRC). 1962: Lamsa teaches at the farm's summer school. 1963: vpw films "the Teacher" =========== 1967: "Are the Dead Alive Now?" is constructed from Bullinger's books; PFAL is filmed (We're stopping in 1966, not 1967, so this comes right AFTER what we're discussing. =============== So, we want everything and anything that happened from 1953's PFAL origin to just before PFAL is filmed and ADAN is self-published. Please note: if you feel you can't post in your name, but wish to share, you can send me a pm and I can write up the contents (and change the writing style to my own to preserve your anonymity.) So, are ANY of those people here at all? ANYONE?

It worked in specific times for specific reasons. It worked with Moses during the Exodus because this was a specific crisis requiring hands-on attention. (Nations wanted to wipe them out.) It worked in the time of the Judges because each judge was MADE a judge to deal with the specific failures, shortcomings and problems Israel had in each case. In the time of Samuel, the people DEMANDED a man to rule over them "like all the nations." The results looked good for a little while, but were otherwise disastrous. And God had Samuel warn the people AHEAD of time what the consequences would be. He'd want people to serve him and cook for him, he'd take their women for his pleasure-hey, this sounds familiar..

I'll explain, but first you should sit down and watch the movie "Highlander", or 5 or 6 episodes of the television show. Once you've done that, you'll probably know what I was going to say anyway.

'templelady': "12th session PFAL My class Direct Quote "If you can't speak in tongues you aren't saved" " ========== Well, we have an eyewitness to at least ONE instance where it happened. Perhaps they refer to what she experienced, perhaps they refer to another experience, perhaps they just jumped to a conclusion. Tough to say.

As others have said, GOD saved your life. Anyone else "below" Jesus Christ in the story is nice but irrelevant. Give GOD the glory. He used whatever tools were at hand to save your life. This does NOT mean you owe the TOOLS your life. Loyalty is good-to a point. If you wanted me to follow you off a cliff, you PERSONALLY would have to be beyond exceptional. (I don't think anyone's that good who's not seated at the right hand of God.) Quite a number of people were delivered from quite a number of things. Your story is not completely unique. Please don't confuse being delivered DURING PFAL with being delivered BY PFAL. As Balaam learned, even a jackass can speak the truth, but you don't just make him your guru.... Others need deliverance of that type and magnitude-I agree. You're new around here and really should do some catching-up. A lot of "old light" around here will be "new light" to you. There are a LOT of Christians out there who know their stuff. Some know BETTER than twi's best people. There are a LOT of Christians who left twi and took their stuff with them. As far as I know, even the WORST of them is better than twi. There is a big difference between "a ministry that has the Word of God" and a ministry that IS the Word of God. You were taught-as were most of us- that NO Christian outside twi is competent spiritually. This was a lie then, and it's MORE of a lie now, as there are lots more EX-twi than twi'ers. You were taught-as were all of us- that twi had a special pipeline to God. It was founded by a man receiving special revelation that was unknown for the last 1800 years or more. This was a HUGE lie. twi does NOT resemble the 1st century church. Read the book of Acts and make comparisons all the way through. Acts: - no centralized authority -much power -no verse memorizing -no talk of money except for specific, one-time events twi: -obey leadership or ELSE! -talk ABOUT power but the leaders never SHOW it; only locals -intellectual memorizing of teachings ABOUT Scripture -mandatory 15% of your income which goes to hq and STAYS there vpw's "special revelation" was that he had books from a handful of FANTASTIC Christians (and a few others) and didn't tell us he did. He plagiarized whole books from Bullinger-like "Are the Dead Alive Now?". He plagiarized Receiving the Holy Spirit Today, and the entire PFAL class. The introductions to the White and Orange Books say he learned it all from God or the Bible as his only textbook and guidebook. That was a bold-faced lie. Others here have TAKEN the class he stole- which is SUPERIOR to PFAL, and PFAL was better than that horrid WAP thing they're using now. GOD saved your life. Don't swear blind lifelong allegiance to people because of what GOD did. (Or for any other reason.) Psst. You're not the only Christian looking out for those people. Lots of other Christians are, as well. Some are among the tens of thousands who escaped twi. Some never HEARD of twi. People who learned under BG Leonard, they're FAR better equipped to help them than anyone who relies on what twi teaches. Frankly, the deepest spiritual stuff ever taught- Advanced class and higher- demonstrated a LACK of understanding of a number of things. Think hard-I'm sure you noticed them and never asked questions..... Yes. God does not deliver people only to beat them down again. Staying with twi WILL do that, however. Like myself, I think you never saw all the REALLY bad stuff. Look around here-there's eyewitness accounts, accounts foolishly committed to writing or tape, and other things. I was VERY shocked to hear even the lighter stuff. I can't forgive the emotional rapists. They didn't emotionally rape me. They didn't physically rape me. (They did BOTH to other people, though.) They made the deliberate decisions to value money and property over God's people, and chose to take any action they could to keep the money. There's hundreds of personal accounts here. Or you can check the audio files and hear how someone's kid died because their family chose to leave twi. The worst of the bunch are still occupying the highest positions in twi. That won't change as long as twi exists. Read about all the things they did. After 10% of them, you may change your mind. Mathematically speaking, the probability is not zero. However, I won't expect it until I do things MORE likely, like win the Lotto. The evidence supports them making the APPEARANCE of change, wiping clean the OUTSIDE of the cup, whitewashing the sepulchre, while leaving the inside of the cup dirty, the sepulchre full of dead men's bones. They promise to never again get caught breaking the law. First, the people at the top would have to CARE. They do not CARE about the corruption. They are ORIGINATING the corruption. They LIKE the corruption. They MAINTAIN the corruption. The people at the top will never ALLOW real reform, since that means they will have to let go of "their" money. They may allow lots of TALK about change, and they may lie through their teeth, but that's appearances. The candidates are being drawn from some of the people on the planet LEAST capable of critical thinking and evaluative study. (Ask jkboeme-he can explain that one all day-and has.) The people training them were trained to be LOYAL above all else. Nobody exists in twi who CAN train properly. The thought police run the bod/bot. THOSE thought police have you convinced they're not thought police. They DON'T want twi people thinking for themselves. We can never "return" to a place we've never BEEN. There was an illusion of this, and there was a reality of it for a few months around 1970. That lasted until vpw purged out all the people saying that. (He found them useful before that.) He was lying. He didn't get involved because he had a heart of stone. He did not CARE about your problems. He was carefully taught by vpw NOT to care about anyone's problems. When he DID care, vpw taught him to STOP caring. (See the "vp and me in wonderland" thread for documentation of this happening.) They were never ON that track. The ministry had wonderful people locally, some good Bible teaching, and a bunch of leadership that wouldn't recognize God's Love if it honked their noses- starting with vpw. (See "the way:living in wonderland" thread for documentation of this.) I would agree in principle. I would also add that these are not the ONLY way God works with us. Locally, that may be true. (I don't know your local situation.) Ministry-wide, that is NOT true, no matter what they told you. I hope you have a good exit plan ready for when (not if) they kick out your local leader for actually encouraging you to think. If not, and you get stuck, you can always post here and ask for advice. We've been at this for years.

Well, Belle already beat me to everything I was planning on saying, so you can just re-read her reply and you'll have the essence of it. :) Since she did, I'll take this opportunity to address the initial post specifically. (I think we're drifting off the subject.) The question on the table: "Is it possible to fix the Way Corps?" I think it is a good thing when good people want to do their utmost for God. I think it is a good thing to want to improve in that ability. Training programs are a standardized way to do this, and are more efficient than some other ways. (Although programs sacrifice QUALITY and DEPTH for QUANTITY and SPEED. That's something to keep in mind with ANY program.) That over-simplifies what they need to learn, but yes.Of books, they know they know less than they think they do, and less than they CAN know just by going online. The more important lessons are harder to teach in a classroom, but some can be taught by DOING, and some by listening to someone with those skills. God's people need many things. The Way Corps learned ONE of those things- give them The Word- pretty well, but it learned almost nothing of all the others. Fixing that is NOT easy. The biggest problem there is that each can only offer what HE has, and the easiest thing for them all to offer is only what they all already know. Unless exceptional measures are taken, all that will happen is they'll learn a little bit, then think they learned EVERYTHING. When it comes to training, the LAST people they should go to should be twi, and the last people before THEM is each other. More benefit could be found by sending each in a DIFFERENTdirection, to learn from different people, different situations, learning different lessons. A few could go into OTHER Christians' programs, most should just get out there and DO things and try to work under, and learn from, quality Christians who have never heard of anything they were ever taught. That brings up several other problems. I explained what the problem is with "gathering them". You may just reinforce the BAD things they learned and fill a room with them. Some of them are convinced they received the greatest training in the world, and ANY words against that will be greeted with attacks and screaming. That's what they were TAUGHT to do by example. So, if you speak about the problems, you likely won't get them to agree they exist and are actually problems. "Help each other"- I answered this already, also. The last two, I almost feel bad to tell you. "Improve the Way Corps. Establish leadership." Overall, as a program, the Way Corps was a major failure. The useful Bible answers can all be fit into ONE year- which is what the college division did. That left 3 years' worth of time where little of use was taught. They did manual labor for twi and so on. The other really useful things were dangerous- rockclimbing and so on. Not everybody who wants to do their best for God should go rock-climbing- which we've seen. A lot of the remaining time was learning obedience to leadership above them, and learning to yell at people and ignore their needs. As for "establishing leadership", I'd hesitate to trust any Corps grad to be a good leader. Not all of them WOULD make good leaders, and their "leadership training" made for OBEDIENT "leaders", not GOOD ones. And vpw and lcm wanted it that way.

You guys provided all the answers, as good or better as I can, at the moment. I just wanted to add something on this comment, in case anyone's curious. In a large part, CG seems to have been (and is still?) a vpw worshipper in that he's often treated vpw's "work" on a subject as if there's little improvement that can be made on it. (This is not ALWAYS true-he disagreed with policy on vpw as to whether or not a tape-recording should include worship manifestations or not, and his explanation was the first time I remembered hearing BG Leonard's name. Further, he sought to improve the Advanced class, and some of his changes WERE improvements. But I digress.) As a result of CG's beliefs, CG spent a LOT of time editing vpw's work for later publication. If memory serves, "Order My Steps in Thy Word" was edited by CG and "written" by vpw. The book for "Living Victoriously" worked the same way, except it MENTIONED CG editing it. If it was representative of his work in general, then he printed all the substance and trimmed out insults and occasional cheapshots. (The taped "Living Victorously" contains cheapshots and insults not contained in the book, but much of the rest is word-for-word. Except for announcements and other taped comments not germane to the teaching.) CG published several books like this, compilations of things vpw taught- "Take God at His Word", "Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus" "Our Times" and so on. The timing of "Future Considerations" coming out seemed to me to have been dictated. Right after lcm drew his line in the sand and said "no more soup for you" (and thus "no way magazine for you"), CG came out with an alternative. The format was explained in either the first issue or in a cover letter included. I still remember the description/ Future Considerations had up to 3 parts per issue, and they varied issue to issue. "D'beni Baita" was from the Aramaic for "from the household". This was announcements, and was usually the smallest part. "Ek tou didaskalou" was from the Greek for "from the teacher". This was an article edited by CG and "written by" vpw. "Ek tou logou" was from the Greek for "from the Word." This was an article by CG, but, based on the description, could be by anyone EXCEPT vpw, who had his own category. Early issues seemed to be almost all "Ek tou didaskalou". Later issues often were all "Ek tou logou", like the 8-parter on Abraham that included every verse on him in Scripture. (It was called "an introductory study" on him, but it was basically book length in total. That bugged me by the start of Part 5.)

Actually, I've read their stuff and jkboehme's stuff. I don't agree with every single line of every single thing either has said. However, Jkboehme's got a higher batting average in my eyes. That is in SPITE of using the technical terms and not BECAUSE of them. (Yes, I can keep up with him when I want to.) I find he documents and cites more specifically and more accurately than they do, and makes it more clear when he's opining versus, say paraphrasing or summarizing. That may have never been implied to you. I don't remember being taught it myself. HOWEVER, not only were there many places you and I were not, there were different timeframes where different things where taught in different places. If I were to try to predict places where this sort of thing was overheard, I'd guess that one place and time was the exponential growth in 1969-1971 when vpw used hippies (Christian raw recruits with lots of heart) to market his product. When I hear them reminisce about what that time was like, I hear comments that sound a lot like that. So, it is possible that WAS taught OUTRIGHT, then and there, and other places. It's also possible someone misunderstood something, jumped to a conclusion, and this has become an urban myth about twi. (I know a few of those.) Not having heard the original quote or citation, I can't say for sure. However, I can say they didn't DOCUMENT their claim, which is sloppy. Finally, I HAVE heard DIFFERENT stuff that was stupider than that, which WAS taught at twi. My personal favourite was lcm giving a reason why you might not want to "speak the Word" to someone, based on a mangling of a verse, and the resultant misunderstanding vpw taught.