WordWolf

If those are the "By The Way" articles that vpw paid to have printed in local newspapers, please give the dates/whatevers on the articles. I still have the SET and can retrieve one if I have the dates or whatevers.

HOOK SHOT. He claimed to have invented the hook shot. We discussed it in this thread when we discussed the Sheboygan Redskins thing. The short of it is that he claimed to have been connected to the Sheboygan Redskins, then later, the claim was that he PLAYED on their team (which he did not-the entire team roster was posted on the GSC once, and his name wasn't on it), then came claims of him inventing the hook shot. He was probably a fair player in high school, but he never even claimed to be on his college's varsity team or earned a varsity letter. Since the colleges keep records, it was smart he never made such a claim- he could have been caught lying...

[WordWolf in boldface again.] [ So, then, your only justification for saying that Jesus Christ TOLD YOU that he appointed vpw his spokesman and is VERY interested in pfal is one line vpw himself wrote in one book? This may surprise you, Mike, but one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.... ]

Sushi, I was debating whether or not to mention that it was probably a desert-jackal described in the verses, since the gray (timber) wolf wasn't indigenous to Palestine that I'm aware of.

Since Mike requested, I'll document a few things I've said that Mike has said previously. Mike 2/2/04, 12:17am. "When you see Christ in his glory he will be holding a PFAL book in his hand and teaching you from it." ("So, Mike, you weren't kidding about JC coming with a PFAL book in his hand.") Mike, 2/3/04, 7:53pm. "Totally serious. I've already seen him this way more than once." Mike 2/3/04, 5:22am "Jesus Christ appointed Dr his spokesman. Jesus Christ is VERY interested in PFAL. He told me so." Thank you all and have a nice evening! "My oldest posts are missing! Anyway, I never said it-produce my oldest posts where I said that! You can't? Then that's proof I never said it!" Just in case any of you missed that one....

[WordWolf in brackets and boldface again.] [Fine. Discuss with the management how much you will pay for the terabytes of memory your endless treatises take up to store and provide access to. Posting at GSC is STILL not a Constitutional right. And, in case anyone recognizes my comments, they've been made before, many times, by myself AND others. Naturally, Mike's continually "new" to this. Mike's exposure to information he dislikes is much like some tender young maidens whose 'cherished virtue' returns after they misplace it, no matter how frequently. Oh, and Mike, if GSC posting was the be-all and end-all of things for me, I'd have your posts all ready for re-use, from 2003 on. ]

Yes, folks, we're looking at 1977-1980 this time. Please share all memories of this time, no matter how fuzzy or "trivial". Refresher: According to twi or history, this stuff happened... 1976, the "College of Biblical Research" and the "Way Family Ranch:Camp Gunnison"s land was purchased by twi. 1977, the PFAL '77 is done live at Ball State University. 1977, Howard Allen and "Uncle" Harry Wierwille were installed as Trustees on the Board of Trustees. 1977. Studies in Abundant Living #4 was self-published. 1977, Jimmy Carter becomes US President. 1978. the LEAD Outdoor Academy land was purchased in Tinnie, New Mexico. 1978, the Camp David Accord is signed. 1979, Advanced Class '79 ran. 3-mile Island near-meltdown. Iranian students storm their US embassy in Tehran. 1980, Jesus Christ Our Passover is published.

So I don't lose it, what someone said about Old Man Wierwille, (Ernst), when I asked about whether or not he terrorized the kids... per the locals.... "Ernst was an alcoholic (like Otto and VP), 6th grade education, physically battered and abused wife Emma Rein (in NC it is spelled Rhyne) and children Otto, Harry, Lydia, Sevillia, Victor and Reuben. He supposedly had drinking buddies in Shelby County Sheriff's department who bullied the school principal (not the superintendent as VP claimed)/ algebra teacher and had him either resign or be fired by the school board. Well, poor Victor couldn't go beyond what he was taught. Of course this is 2nd and 3rd hand information/rumor."

No names, but even the ones I thought were dead wrong, of those I knew, they all at least MEANT well and TRIED to do the right thing. (With one or 2 exceptions.)

Even "the Way:Living in Love" had a pic of the "God's blessings on you-SPLASH!" run to the pond. ====== Ok, so, judging from the one-sidedness of the posts, I take it that NOBODY had an experience that was any "darker" than a stupid prank, nothing worse than "Repeat after me, 'I, state your name'..." correct? So, then, we can put this little thing to bed, then?

vpw and lcm just announced this like it was true because they said it was true. It was evidently wrong because it was inconsistent. Supposedly, "seed of the serpent" was a cheap knockoff of the new birth. You JUST SAID THAT. However, the "seed of the serpent" included people all the way back in the book of Genesis, thousands of years BEFORE the new birth. Further, there is absolutely NO verse, and NO evidence to claim that ANYONE gets a "permanent devil-spirit" at any time. That was claimed, but never demonstrated. And no matter what the class setting, all the claims of such were just a song-and-dance.

Ok. Behold the context and environment! A bunch of youngsters assembled in a program originated on a cornfield farm, by a man with no training or experience in leadership programs OR training, who indoctrinated them in his doctrine, whose motto was "you can stay as long as your money holds", who sent home anyone who was having trouble at the early signs of trouble (by shoving them on a bus, not taking them to their doorstep; and no refunds) who periodically kicked out the corps until they recomitted themselves to him. They spent a lot of time doing manual labour fixing up the grounds, or lent out to farmers to pick his crops, while vpw claimed they didn't know how to work (despite his OWN background where he avoided manual labour all his life) they were subjected to his mood-swings and changes of expectations at a moment's notice, where no right answer was correct they were assigned things like exercise and hitchhiking, and told this would help them grow plus other things-that was just off the top of my head. The context and environment? A program that some wonderful, loving people went into, that attempted to grind them into cogs in the machine. They were in a "training program" designed and run by people with only the vague notion of what a training program includes, and subject to the whims of a capricious, unstable tyrant who would tell them he loved them one day, and insult and yell at them the next. It was "designed" to advance vpw's agenda. If they actually learned anything useful, it was almost incidental. The "feeble-minded" were in charge of the program, and thus it was unable to weed them out. Go ahead and rewrite the "good old days" in your brain, but we're discussing the actual EVENTS, so we're bound to clash when we meet.

[WordWolf in boldface and brackets again.] [Doojable, since you missed the earlier discussions, this is the fallacy known as "moving the goalposts". See, you and I want the truth, so when evidence shows we are wrong, we change our minds. Mike's approach is that he wants his doctrine, so when evidence shows he is wrong, he retains his doctrine and tries to change or discredit the evidence. When the plagiarism first showed up, Mike denied it outright. When it was proved he was wrong, he wasted no time switching to saying that everybody else plagiarizes, so it's ok. When it was proved he was wrong again, he wasted no time switching to saying that God told vpw to plagiarize, so it's ok. Yes, that means the God who said "subject yourselves to every ordinance of man for man's sake" now advocated breaking those ordinances. Lately, you've seen him starting a new tack. He's manufacturing personality defects in the REAL writers to try to say it would have been wrong to obey the law and footnote properly. Since he's fond of manufacturing his points, this is hardly innovative. He's claimed Bullinger didn't write his own books-but was proven wrong, and has claimed that Leonard approved of vpw stealing his work, and so on. Of course, he's completely skipping over how the first pfal class was 100% taken from Leonard's class when he says that Leonard's material had errors. Of course, he can't actually NAME an error- he's imagining there might have been one. Truth is irrelevant to Mike. Mike only cares that reality be rewritten so that vpw was right in what he did, no matter how many lies Mike needs to get there. Mike also rewrites the exchanges he has here in his mind. After having been systematically refuted on EVERY point, from the least to the greatest, he has turned around and said that he has been getting the better of all of us in discussion and besting us all. It would be funny if this wasn't what he really thought. Oh- and he thinks that it is NOT idolatry, but perfectly healthy and normal, that he has referred to vpw-and thinks of vpw- as follows: -He was born with an overabundance of brains and brawn -He was gifted, even OVERgifted -Where he walked, the earth shook Just thought you'd like to be kept up to speed.]

We've mentioned that before, as well. His lack of character reflects on his lack of integrity, which shows he's unfit for the office of leader. Right.And so the "law of believing", and the "every woman in the kingdom belonged to the king" parts of pfal, for example, should be rejected because they're error. For those of you who think that pfal is a new Bible, according to its OWN standard, if it is imperfect in ANY place, the whole Bible falls to pieces. Naming just those 2 examples, pfal falls to pieces as a Bible. Wrong. His sins demonstrate he was unworthy to be counted a minister of God. They don't, in and of themselves, address what he taught. Of course, we've said this lots of times, so by now, this is either you failing to read what is written, or you failing to retain what is written. You have a right to your opinion. We've SHOWN it IS relevant, however.

We left out learning to string chairs....

My guess- and this is only a guess- is that he wished to return to the United States. He may have moved to a place he liked better, where he was "plugged in" to people and places better. After all, Gartmore House was a beautiful place to visit, but-as he complained in his POP paper, it was NOT their first choice and was in the middle of NOWHERE, transit-wise.

A "parachute" is what a skydiver wears to slow his fall. In business slang, a "parachute" is the retirement plan (retirement money) set aside for an executive. A "Gold Parachute" is a retirement plan that has a lot of money-a LOT of money.

[vpw COULD have given credit to all the sources he USED. All OTHER writers do it all the time. Further, if he was going to forget SOMEONE, it should NOT be the 3 writers he completely stole PFAL from in its entirety.] [No worries.We all know EXACTLY whose ears are stopped up.] See, themex, that's where you and I agree, and you and Mike DISagree. Mike believes the Bible is NOT God's Word. Mike believes the PFAL COLLATERALS are God's Word. Mike believes that Jesus is very interested in PFAL. Mike believes Jesus appointed VPW the spokesman for Jesus. Mike believes Jesus told him this. Mike has said that when Jesus Christ returns, he will be holding a copy of the Orange PFAL Book AND be TEACHING YOU from it. themex, you and Mike DISagree on those things.

[ WordWolf in boldface and brackets again...]

[WordWolf in bold and brackets again.] [No, it's the same old, same old...] Your level of ignorance occasionally astounds me. The Way didn't PRODUCE a Companion Bible. They purchased the rights to PRINT a run of that book. If they made the slightest alteration to its contents, they would have been committing an illegal act and VIOLATING THE LICENSE THEY PURCHASED. EW Bullinger wrote the Companion Bible. ANYONE altering it in the slightest breaks the law, and whenever vpw used exerpts from it WITHOUT citation, he was breaking the law. So, twi had no authority to REMOVE his name from the book, nor to switch anyone else's name for it. That's not "noble" of them-that's avoiding a trip to prison.

Almost everyone I ever met was in LESS than 10 years, usually 5 years or less. Where did this "average" come from? I learned some things I found quite valuable. And, as soon as it was obvious a madman was in charge, I took off. It was much later that I discovered that I had been lied to many, many times, and the good in my life was purchased with destruction in the lives of my sisters in Christ. Ever know a guy who died directly as a result of twi? I knew a guy who blew his brains out because he couldn't deal with the options- lcm was boinking his wife, and supposedly, as the man of God, he was perfect.... ======= There are many Christians I COULD have learned all that from, WITHOUT the destruction of lives.

I beg to differ. Granted, he received it graciously, sent a very polite thank-you note, and, apparently, thought fairly highly of what we sent. I think it took a certain amount of maturity to do that. (He could have just lit a match and pretended we never sent it.) On the other hand, considering yourself a seasoned professional (like a PhD with a decade or more under his belt) and seeing some relative youngster unknowns (like undergrad college students) put together a refutation of one of your publications that exceeded the quality OF that publication can be quite a blow. It's human, and fallible, and I'd really be surprised if that didn't happen. I mean, he's not the ONLY experienced person who thought we couldn't have had the right of it at the time..... I'm thinking of the catchphrases we were presented with when we asked questions before sending it. (On the other hand, there were a few who knew we had something of substance from early on, and our ages did NOT refute that...)

Still got the draft version handy, and the more final one is around here SOMEWHERE. The substance was about the same in both. I might imagine 40 pages of refutation, covering ALL points, implications, and things that were muttered behind closed doors and later claimed by others (like the "Sarah" thing), I think, WOULD get someone's attention. I think the hit-and-a-half was not that it was so comprehensive, not that it answered EVERYTHING, not that it included the conclusions he SHOULD have drawn, not that it showed where the mistake was.... but that a couple of relative ciphers, guys with NO titles, whom he would view as relatively low on the scale with way corps 20-year longtimers around, produced that where HE did not. That HAD to sting, no matter HOW we tried to soften the blow. ============ Repeat after me: The phrase "What the Bible says God knows, He knows; what the Bible says God doesn't know, He doesn't know" conveys NO information, is an evasion, and is a NON-ANSWER meant to PREVENT discussion.

Also, please note that the ASKING price for books is not necessarily a price that people will EVER pay. Adam Smith's "invisible hand" dictates that supply and price determine DEMAND, which means that lower supplies will raise demand, if more people want copies than there are copies to be had. It also means that, if nobody wants to pay the price, the price should drop until a price is found that someone is willing to pay. (If I want to sell a copy of Harry Potter Book 6 for $1000, no one will buy it. So I drop the price to what they'll pay, which is something reasonable.) However, for some reason, rare books seem to be UNAFFECTED by Adam Smith's invisible hand. I was looking for a set of books. Books 1-20 were released in the US, and I have them. 21-28 had all been released in the UK, and were NEVER released in the US, AND are out-of-print. These are all PAPERBACKS released in the 90s. I put in an inquiry with a bookseller site. I figured they might ask something like 20 bucks or something for a paperback, maybe a little more. They wanted prices ranging between 120 and 200. POUNDS STERLING. That would translate to over $200 for the CHEAP one. And they were not "mint", "fresh-from-the-printers" copies. I laughed and deleted the e-mails. I figure if I ever need the cash, I can offer my set, if THAT's the kinds of offers floating around.... I think the name of the site was "Bartleby's".

There WERE more than a few people that bought his new thesis JUST because he said it. My first exposure to his new thesis was the direct result of someone who had a "duh, of course God's understanding isn't infinite!" view of things, which surprised me more than a bit. The documentation of his thesis was easy to refute, and showed that he didn't expose major stuff to others to see if it wasn't just the way he's seeing things now, as opposed to accurate and true. (This is where "peer review" comes in VERY handy.) By "easy to refute", I mean that the exact DOCTRINE was easy to refute from Scripture, and how he GOT there was easy to refute from Scripture. Hey, Raf, what do you think about the idea that you and I were the penultimate straw that broke the camel's back? (Which was NOT the idea at ALL at the time, but still.)