WordWolf

"Take it away" meant "next poster can post the next song." So, rather than wait, here's one. "Trees went by Me and 'Del' were singing 'Little Runaway' I was flying." This was what I was thinking of when I put Del Shannon's "Little Runaway" as a song.

Well, twisting some Scriptures and completely disregarding others. The most obvious disregarded one, to me, is Matthew 23:9. "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

And what did he say about how he ripped off Bullinger's books to form pfal and RTHST? TW:LIL, pg-210. "She gave me my first copy of Bullinger's How to Enjoy the Bible. She said, when she first heard me teach, that I taught like he wrote, and I'd never met the man or even read his stuff."

What did he say directly about how he got the 1st edition of RTHST, which was Stiles' book plus some books by Bullinger, and ONLY what they contained? (Mostly Stiles.) (1954) TW:LIL, pg-209. "Somewhere in there I wrote the first holy spirit book. I can't remember exactly what year. I'd been working those 385 scriptures and they began to all fall into place." "We're having the sixth edition printed now of that book: Receiving the Holy Spirit Today. It's a great piece of research." And, after having lied so thoroughly (and throughly) about it, he makes the following "disclaimer": "Lots of the stuff I teach is not original. Putting it together so that it fit-that was the original work. I learned wherever I could, and then I worked that with the Scriptures. What was right on with the Scriptures, I kept; but what wasn't, I dropped. Vale from Florida was the one who taught us about interpretation and prophecy. But he didn't understand the other manifestations. It took BG Leonard and others to teach us healing and believing. But in the holy spirit field, our piece of research is the most thorough and original coverage of the subject. And believe me, I've seen about everything in that field. No one really goes into it."

How about BG Leonard? vpw took the ENTIRE contents of pfal class 1.0 from Leonard's class, UNALTERED. What did he say about Leonard? TW:LIL, pg-207. "He loved me, and I learned some stuff from him. He had tremendous believing. That's why I love the guy." "The summer of 1953, our whole ministry went up-Dotsie and Donnie and some of the others from Van Wert. We took his whole trip- really learned a lot about the other manifestations of the holy spirit. But he worked from personal experiences. I worked what he taught from the accuracy of the Scriptures. When I came home, I made up my mind that I was going to tie the whole thing together from Genesis to Revelation. So I did, and in October, I had the very first 'Power for Abundant Living' class. At that time, the Foundational Class and Advanced Class were together-the whole thing in two weeks. But the syllabus today is basically the same. The basic principles from the Word are the same. The class has filled out. But I knew the greatness of our age-the age of holy spirit and that every truth must fit in the framework of the manifestations. I just had to teach it to somebody." "I taught without a syllabus, but the class was the same. You could throw the syllabus away now and I could still teach it. It's a burning reality in my soul."

TW:LIL, pg-179. "The Word is buried today. If there's no one around to teach it, God has to teach it Himself. You see, I am a product of my times. God knew me before the foundations of the world, just like He knew you and everyone else. We were all in God's foreknowledge from the beginnings. God knew I would believe His Word. And every day I am more and more deeply convinced of this ministry which teaches people the accuracy and integrity of God's Word." pg-181, reminscing after the 1942 promise... "That's where I was sitting when I prayed to God to teach me the Word and show me how." (Mind you, page 178, he said "I told Father outright that He could have the whole thing, unless there were real genuine answers that I wouldn't ever have to back up on." So, this watershed experience in his life, the details seem flexible. He even asked at least 2 different things...) pg-190. "If no one is around to teach you the Word, and you are hungry, then God has to teach you in the framework of your knowledgeable experience. For example, if you're an athlete, He'll do it through athletics. If you're a farmer, He'll teach you through farming." pg-201. "You see, learning is a process. You don't learn overnight. The holy spirit field-that's the field God raised me up for. There's not a question that cannot be answered biblically. And there's no one I can't lead into speaking in tongues if they are Christian and want to do it. No matter how much knowledge you have of God, God seldom allows you to teach more than people are able to receive. Some things God taught me that night in Tulsa, I've never taught- no one would have been able to receive them." Go ahead, stop implying and suggesting, come right out and say it instead... "Everything I learned, God taught me. That's what I teach you."

There's some good stuff on this subject, including some side-by-side between Stiles and vpw, on http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/tw_founder.htm

It is interesting to compare the Preface to the White Book, 7th Edition, which I already quoted, with the Preface in the 2nd edition. ===== Here's how one paragraph ORIGINALLY read in the 2nd edition, (pg-8): "The Word of God is truth. I prayed that I might put aside all I had been taught and start anew with the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbook. It took me seven years to find a man of God schooled in the Holy Spirit, a man who knew the Scripture on the Holy Spirit, and could fit it together so that I dod not have to omit, deny or change any one passage. He made the Scripture fit like a hand fits into a glove, and when you can do that, you can be assured of having truth." ======== Here's the corresponding paragraph in the 7th Edition, the one most of us got to read: ====== "The Word of God is truth. I prayed that I might put aside all that I had heard and thought out myself, and I started anew with the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbook. I did not want to omit, deny, or change any passage for, the Word of God being the will of God, the Scripture must fit like a hand in a glove." ====== Interesting how the other man just VANISHES from the picture, no? It's as if vpw later wants to take exclusive credit ("I started anew with the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbook") for something that was exclusively the result of Stiles-the UNNAMED Christian-working for God ("...He made the Scripture fit like a hand fits into a glove...")

I keep hearing that he supposedly gave "proper credit" in his books, and I thought it was worth the time as a refresher, and to make it handy for the next time someone makes this ridiculous claim. The Way:Living in Love, pg-174. (Same page as the basketball team.) "I don't remember much of the past. I'll have to renew my mind. Oh, yes, did I tell you I taught at Gordon Divinity School? Homiletics was my specialty- that's preaching. I took everything I could take at the Moody's Bible Institute, too, through their correspondence courses." I'm guessing he counted both of these. We know for a fact the Moody thing was a boldfaced lie, since Moody has NO record of him at ALL.

Ok, the White Book's Preface, pages ix to xi, which is the ENTIRE preface.) ======== "When I was serving my first congregation, a Korean missionary asked me, 'Why don't you search for the greatest of all things in life which would teach Christian believers the HOW of a really victorious life?' This challenge was the beginning of a search which led me through many, many hours of examining different English translations, the various critical Greek texts, and Aramaic 'originals', looking for the source of the power which was manifested in the early Church. Finally I realized that the experience referred to as 'receiving the holy spirit' in the Scriptures WAS and IS actually available to every born-again believer today. I believed to receive the gift of holy spirit and I, too, manifested. Ever since receiving into manifestation the holy spirit, I have had the desire to put in written form the longings and fears that were mine regarding the receiving thereof. I believe that sharing my quest with the believers who are today seeking to be endued with power from on high may be instrumental in leading them to the answer of their hearts' desires. I knew from the Bible that what God sent at Pentecost was still available. It had to be, for God does not change. I knew that the receiving of the power from on high on the day of Pentecost had meant increased ability for the apostles and disciples years ago, and that I needed and wanted the same blessing. I knew that if the Church ever needed the holy spirit in manifestation it needed it now. Throughout my academic training in a college, a university, four seminaries, from the commentaries I studied, and from my years of questing and research among the various religious groups claiming adherence to the holy spirit's availability, there appeared many things contradictory to the accuracy of the recorded Word of God. I knew their teachings were sincere, but sincerity is no guarantee for truth. The Word of God is truth. I prayed that I might put aside all that I had heard and thought out myself, and I started anew with the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbook. I did not want to omit, deny, or change any passage for, the Word of God being the will of God, the Scripture must fit like a hand in a glove. If you are a Christian believer, I sincerely encourage you to study this book. Do not allow your past teachings or feelings to discourage you from going on to receive God's best. If you need power and ability to face up to the snares of this live, you may find your answer while reading this book. It is my prayer that you may be edified, exhorted, and comforted. For those searching the Scriptures, desiring to know the reasons why, how, what or where, I suggest you do a careful study of the introductions as well as the appendices in this volume. For those who simply desire to receive, read chapters 1 though 5 and enjoy God's great presence and power. "II Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." To his helpers and colleagues every writer owes a profound debt. This seventh edition has been read and studies carefully by men and women of Biblical and spiritual ability. To all of these I am most grateful." ========= End of Preface.

What ELSE did the Orange Book say on the subject? [pg-119-120.] ===== "For years I did nothing but read around the Word of God. I used to read two or three theological works weekly for month after month and year after year. I knew what Professor so-and-so said, what Dr so-and-so and the Right Reverend so-and-so said, but I could not quote you The Word. I had not read it. One day I finally became so disgusted and tired of reading around The Word that I hauled over 3000 volumes of theological works to the city dump. I decided to quit reading around The Word. Consequently, I have spent years studying The Word- its integrity, its meaning, its words. Why do we study? Because God expects us as workmen to know what His Word says." ============= As a sidenote, if he read FOUR books a week (one more than he claimed), every week, every year, it would take 15 years to make it thru 3000 volumes without rereading any. (4 books times 52 weeks is 208 books a year. 15 years at that pace should do it.) That's while he was completing his education, working, travelling to India, and so on. That's leaving aside the issue of where one keeps 3000 books...

When looking at vpw's acknowledgements and bibliographies, we can see who he gives credit to, and who he doesn't. For those who've missed previous discussions, it might be worth going over his official statements and what they mean in plain English. ========== Ok, the Orange Book. There IS NO bibliography to this book. In case you're wondering, that would be one reason a donated book would be refused for a college library. The dedication is to his daughter. Remembering that this book is part Bullinger, part Leonard, and part Norman Vincent Peale/ positive thinking, we have seen no mention of any of them in the book. Even the "about the author" leaves out all 3 names. What DOES the introduction say? Here it is in its entirety. === "Introduction: the Abundant Life. Jesus' proclamation as recorded in John 10:10 is the foundational Scripture for this book. ...I am come that they [believers] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. This verse literally changed my life. My wife and I began in the Christian ministry, plodding ahead with the things of God, but somehow we lacked an abundant life. Then one time I was especially alerted when I read from the Word of God that Jesus said He had come to give us life more abundant. I was startled into awareness. As I looked about me at communities where I had served and among the ministers with whom I had worked, the abundant life was frequently not evident. In contrast to these Christian people, I could see that the secular world of non-Christians were manifesting a more abundant life than were members of the Church. Thus I earnestly began to pursue the question: 'If Jesus Christ came that men and women might have a MORE ABUNDANT LIFE, then why is it that the Christian believers do not manifest even an ABUNDANT LIFE?' I believe most people would be thankful if they ever lived an abundant life; but The Word says Jesus Christ came that we might have life not just abundant, but more abundant. If His Word is not reliable here in John 10:10, how can we trust it anywhere else? But, on the other hand, if Jesus told the truth, if He meant what He said and said what He meant in this declaration, then surely there must be keys, signposts, to guide us to the understanding and the receiving of this life which is more than abundant. This book, POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING, is one way of showing interested people the abundany life which Jesus Christ lived and which He came to make available to believers as it is revealed in the Word of God. This is a book containing Biblical keys. The contents herein do not teach the Scriptures from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21; rather, it is designed to set before the reader the basic keys in the Word of God so that Genesis to Revelation will unfold and so that the abundant life which Jesus Christ came to make available will become evident to those who want to appropriate God's abundance to their lives. " =========== That is the ENTIRE introduction. There is no other prefix, appendix, etc to the book.

Merry Christmas! Happy ChristmaHanuKwanzaakah! Happy Festivus! Jesus-y Jesusmas! (That should cover most of the posters. Oh, happy Winter Solstice.)

I vote for "none of the above". I say it was indicative of his mindset-it showed what he thought of David's SIN. It was what he and his sick mind did LATER with other comments and verses that REALLY did more damage. ANY document can be twisted if you distort it enough. You completely missed the point there. Outside of twi, NOBODY uses that verse as justification. IN twi, quite a few DID. Was that in SPITE of what vpw said and did, or BECAUSE of what he did? I'll quote vpw himself on this one. Back in the 1960s, vpw was chatting with someone and ASKED them to describe what orgies were like. (He OPENED the subject.) When they-reluctantly-described it, thankful to have been DELIVERED from it, vpw commented. vpw: "You know that's all available. God put it in I Corinthians 7:1 when He said 'It is good for a man not to touch a woman.' If it wasn't available to have sex outside the marriage, God would have said 'best' instead of 'good'." The reply: "I just thank God that He pulled our souls out of that pit of debauchery." The mind-frame of a man who would pervert Scripture and claim I Corinthians 7:1 permits orgies is the same one who would claim that "TECHNICALLY all the women in the kingdom belonged to the king." Later, people exposed to his teachings claimed that the only harm in guilt is the guilty feeling, and we can sin incredibly so long as we don't feel guilty. Did this have NOTHING to do with the mindset of their teacher? Did he really NEVER pass along to ANY of them this concept? We know he did not teach it to EVERYONE. We've heard he's been overheard passing similar things to lcm and others...

Well, the key was, as later groups saw more and more overtly, it's NOT the BIBLE, but the teachings of hq and leaders which supposedly REFLECT the Bible. The idea of you reading it yourself was-OFFICIALLY-encouraged, but in PRACTICE, DIScouraged. Rozilla has said that reading your BIBLE isn't necessary if you're reading their magazine and getting their tapes. Ever see a corps grad or BC or higher wince at the idea of people doing their OWN research and sharing it? I, myself, was told that had been a PROBLEM and was not seen as a good idea. (Which I translated as "don't let me know you're actually reading it/teaching it" since I was going to carry on regardless.) I was recommended instead to just go over the collaterals. So, when faced with a discrepancy between the Bible and the leadership, you were expected to follow leadership, which led to the claim that "God will cover"- follow leadership even off the Word, and everything will be fine ANYWAY.

Please cite the exact verse that entitled a king-under the Mosaic Law- to "all the women in the kingdom", including-since this was the SPECIFIC example being explained- women who were already married. If "technically" (as vpw said) this was true, then "technically" Nathan would have had NO grounds to confront David. As it was, he did-David violated some of the 10 Commandments here. "Thou shalt not commit adultery." "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife..." I can get the exact verses for that if you need them.

Congratulations! Best wishes on the next steps of your journey! Feel free to drop in and say hello at some point. Later, when you're up to it.

You cannot put new wine in old skins. I got that one from Jesus. The ORGANIZATION certainly CAN die. It's a bunch of names and slogans, some buildings, some books and programs. Christians managed just fine BEFORE them, and WITHOUT them. They'll survive long AFTER them, too.

Bingo. I didn't even get to my favourite quotes, either... :) Your turn.

Is that the Dreidel Song?

(new movie) "Those are for sinners. You should be smoking these. New Testament cigarettes."

The title is "Christmas Wrapping" (Or "Rapping"), by the Waitresses, but yeah, that's close enough. Your turn.

Oh, that's easy! They taught BOTH at DIFFERENT TIMES! That way, an innocent hears the SECOND one, and says "they never taught women were to prostitute themselves to the mog" and hardcore apologists could say "Those of you who heard this and still thought they taught the other thing are lying or mistaken. How COULD they teach ONE thing and the OPPOSITE?" Worked pretty effectively, too. Some people are a decade out or more and still saying it.

*sets up the aluminum pole* I think we should go to the Feats of Strength, since we specialize in the Airing of Greivances already....