WordWolf

I find falling thru a suspended ceiling VERY distracting, myself. I was also ticked to find out that Judd Nelson improvised these lines while climbing thru the library ceiling in "the Breakfast Club"-which meant there wasn't a complete joke, and thus, no punch line. (At least, that's what AMC said when they aired this with trivia included.)

Well, I could just say "this is what I wanted", and leave it at that, but there's other reasons. This thread/book gave us a unique look behind the curtain into how lcm became the way he did, and what vpw was like when he thought nobody was looking. Here, we can see just how disposable he viewed "his kids", and how he went out of his way to control his image, but never went beyond the rudest accomodations for the corps, and how people were worth much less to him than "my stuff", which was actually the MINISTRY's stuff that vpw treated like his own personal toy chest. A lot of people only knew him from tape and "stage".

I wanted to bring this back...

Here's edition 4.5 of my timeline. I added Old Man Wierwille to the mix. This timeline is mostly from publications OF TWI. ========= Let's see. What did vpw AUTHORIZE to be revealed about himself..... victor paul wierwille was born to a large family of German descent. (Born December 31, 1916.) According to locals, Ernst, his father, was an alcoholic with negligible education, with a bad temper who acted as a bully. This was true in his dealings with locals AND with his own family. Each child had their own chores. Little Victor chose to neglect his chores, and would vanish for hours into the woods nearby. (It has been noted that this running off may have been as much to avoid an abusive father as it was to avoid doing any work. Or it may be unrelated.) When he was young, he once told a minister that he wanted to be a man of God like him. Other than this statement, Little Victor showed no actual involvement in the church, no actual effort or work in the things of the church. So, this seems to suggest an interest-not in being a man of God- but in being the man the whole community turned out to see, to have their respect. As a teenager, young Vic continued to lack any qualities of a man of God. In fact, he went out of his way to earn a reputation going in the opposite direction. He was a bully, a showoff and a braggart. (He seems to have been taught this at home.) He did all sorts of things for attention. He was quick to start a fight or mouth off at others. He had a quick wit. One of his common ways of showing off was to tear up and down the streets of New Knoxville on his motorcycle, trying to get attention. His demonstrated talents seemed to be limited to his quick wit and his ability to play a guitar, which he showed competency in. Old Man Wierwille was preparing to pass on the family farm to young Vic, as was the family tradition. Young Vic balked at this. He'd had plans to go to college. At first, he considered a few fields-business and so on- but by this time, he had decided upon the seminary. (This was before the time he referred to as "believing the Bible as the Word of God".) Old Man Wierwille was skeptical of this, and said that young Vic, having shown lack of hard work on simple manual labour on the farm, would never make a good preacher. Young Vic convinced him he would do better with books than with sweating out in the field. Young Vic went to school for the ministry. His community thought it was some kind of joke- everyone knew he lacked the proper character. (He never overcame that impression with them.) Victor had the option to study "Bible Languages" or other subjects requiring hard study. He instead chose to study Homiletics, the "softest" option he could have learned. (He never overcame his deficiency in study in Bible languages, church history, etc.-not even to the level of an informed layman as of 2004.) Victor was married July 2, 1937(Mr was 20, Mrs was 21). He graduated with a BA from Lakeland College in 1937. Donald was born in 1940. Victor graduated Princeton Theological Seminary in 1941, to earn his Masters in Practical Theology from Princeton Theological Seminary, also in 1941. He did his "trial sermons" in 1941 in Payne, Ohio for the Evangelical and Reformed Church. According to his memorial in 1985, he started his first pastorate July 1941, and was ordained July 29, 1941. (According to his account in TW:LIL, his first pastorate began in 1944 in Van Wert, Ohio, and continued until 1957.) Victor entered his first pastorate and wasted little time becoming a bully and a control freak AGAIN. He himself claims he started his job by immediately doing whatever the elders told him not to do- even though it hampered his ability to do his job properly. According to him, they confronted him on this, he mouthed off at them, and they just let him go about his business, and the local church prospered as a direct result of him. He was known for building a fairly interesting sermon, and getting people involved, including the youths. (This was STILL before the time when he claimed he believed the Bible was the Word of God.) He said the following year, (1942) he slowly became discouraged and was searching. He was still the man he had been, which is to say he was prideful, arrogant, boastful, liked attention, and viewed the clergy as a PROFESSION and not a holy calling. (He could have been just as "called" as an accountant or actuary, say.) During 1942, he claimed he was ready to give up being a minister. About a year later (Payne, 1942, August), he meets Rosal1nd R1nker. She was a former missionary to China and Korea. She's remembered as the anonymous person who asks vpw "Why don't you search for the greatest of all things in life which would teach Christians the HOW of a really victorious life?" This woman fixed a great deal of attention on him, and had a forceful personality. She spent some time with him alone. It was of this time that he later claimed he asked forgiveness of God. He also credits her with DOGGING HIM "on the Bible being the Word of God", and she "got me STARTED on the right track". which, until this time, he hadn't believed, not even in all his years of school. During 1942, he claimed he was ready to give up being a minister in August AND September. One month later (September 1942), an event happened that he later showed a habit of re-writing. As Victor told God he was getting ready to quit (again), He claimed that God spoke to him and said He (God) would teach him (Victor) His Word (God's Word) like it had not been known since the 1st century, if he (Victor) would teach it to others. (This is the famous 1942 promise.) Victor of course lacked the education in church history to contextualize this claim-since it was inaccurate as stated. This implies that this was a made-up story, or it came from a god lacking knowledge in history. Victor later added a second part to his story- a snowstorm. He said that he required PROOF of God, and asked God to let him see it snow. A moment later, he opened his eyes, and he saw a veritable blizzard out his window. The later addition to this story suggest that he felt it needed more support after using the initial story. Victor showed no marked improvement, neither in character, nor in behaviour, thru the rest of the 1940s (nearly the entire decade after this supposed promise), which strongly supports the rather direct assertion that he lied thru his teeth. October 3, 1942, vpw does his first radio broadcast. He continued to do a radio show under one name or another for several years- Vesper Chimes, aka Chimes Hour Youth Caravan. Its name changes to Chimes Hour Youth Caravan in 1947. Rhoda joined its staff in 1947. In 1948, vpw is issued a "Doctorate" from Pikes Peak Seminary, an organization lacking accreditation and formal classes (among other things.) At one point, Rufus Moseley attempts to minister Holy Spirit to vpw, but vpw demonstrates an inability to receive it. In 1951, he visits missionaries in Honduras. In 1951, vpw makes another claim he's ready to give up on the ministry (even after, supposedly a direct promise of God about really important stuff which promptly failed to materialize.) In November, 1951, vpw attends the Full Gospel Rally, in Tulsa, Oklahoma (a big Evangelical conference.) He made several claims of this conference. People at the conference OTHER than vpw supposedly had no difficulty beginning speaking in tongues. He claims he faked speaking in tongues in a clever way, and others were unable to tell. He is further disillusioned about working for God. He then claims a miraculous snowstorm blocked him into the city entirely, and ALL evidence there was that there WAS no blizzard (and there was a WEALTH of evidence-at the airports, Amtrak and bus depot, the hotel staff, the attendees, etc) was concealed by angels. vpw also, apparently, never approached a window, or they made an illusion at the window. Supposedly, a woman comes up to him and tells him that she knows a man who can help him- JE Stiles. He claims God told Stiles to attend the conference with the sole purpose of ministering the Spirit to vpw. vpw meets with Stiles, and makes a few chauvanistic observations to himself, before going off with Stiles. Stiles works with him for hours and hours, hammering across to vpw what the Bible says on speaking in tongues, and working over his doubts one by one for hour upon hour. Finally, vpw was able to speak in tongues. It was during the 1950s that vpw's behaviour was noted to finally improve, although he still did not stop including inappropriate words or concepts in his sermons. In March, 1953, vpw finds out about BG Leonard, and pushes his way into BG Leonard's CTC Gifts of the Spirit class, which Leonard permits. vpw takes this class twice, bringing several people with him the second time. (That second time was July 1953.) vpw then went off for a few months by himself, then told Leonard that he'd like to run Leonard's CTC Gifts of the Spirit class locally for his congregation on a one-time basis. Seeing the benefit to other Christians, Leonard agrees. vpw then runs the first of "his" PFAL classes, (October 1953) and takes a photograph of that class. He tells the students that this is "his" class called PFAL, with NO mention of Leonard's class from which 100% of the content has been directly lifted. The students have no reason to think he's lying. vpw sends the photograph to Leonard and said tells Leonard that this is a photo of the class that took Leonard's class on a one-time basis that was run locally. Leonard takes vpw at his word, and has no idea that vpw continues to run Leonard's class with vpw's name on it, defrauding both Leonard AND the students. To this day, many students STILL think this was was vpw's class, even when evidence is introduced to the contrary. Later, vpw added the contents of JE Stiles' work on "Gifts of the Spirit" and Bullinger's work on the Holy Spirit as well as "How to Enjoy the Bible", and expanded the class into a class that was the sum of the 3 men's work-Stiles, Bullinger and Leonard-rather than just Leonard. vpw later makes a few offhand comments here and there that the material in the class is not original, but its compilation was. (However, as it was constructed, vpw could have been sued by copyright holders for Bullinger, Stiles, and Leonard. Leonard found out but chose not to prosecute.) In 1953, vpw also takes JE Stiles' "Gifts of the Spirit" book, changes a few words, and self-publishes it as the 1st Edition of "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." (Later editions would include incorporation of material from Leonard and Bullinger, and would include more cosmetic changes in the order of the words and the specific words used in an attempt to make it look less like Stiles' book.) vpw runs "his" PFAL classes continually from 1953 onward, with some success. Dr E.E. Higgins was one of the students in the October 1953 class. She's known as the anonymous person who would call vpw at night and ask what God showed him that day. In 1954, Dr Higgins first introduced vpw to EW Bullinger's books, and gave him his first copies of the Companion Bible, and "How to Enjoy the Bible." The contents of both these books later became integral parts of "vpw's" class. According to his published memorial, Bishop KC Pillai took PFAL in 1954, and began teaching a class on "Orientalisms of the Bible". (Pillai also wrote 3 small books: "Light Through an Eastern Window" and Volumes I and II of "Orientalisms of the Bible.") According to the memorial in 1985, 1955 was the year they officially chartered "the Way". In 1955, JP was born. 2 months later, VPW leaves JP with family for the next year or so, taking his wife and eldest son on a tour of the mission fields in India, on the Evangelical and Reformed Church's dime. (1955-1957) (Per TW:LIL) He is irritated that he's reminded he is not officially designated as a spokesman or investigator of theirs. According to his account in TW:LIL, there he meets Bishop KC Pillai, whom he later invites to teach. According to the memorial, this tour of the mission fields from 1955-1956, and includes stops in Great Britain, Europe, India, and "the Bible lands." According to the memorial, 1956 is when he wrote "the Dilemma of Foreign Missions in India." (According to TW:LIL) In 1957, vpw returns to Van Wert. He cuts his ties with the Evangelical and Reformed Church, and takes "his" PFAL class with him. In 1957, he and Harry buy out their brothers and buy the family farm outright. Rather than take ownership themselves, they declare it the property of "the Way", a church organization (thus tax-exempt.) (Per TW:LIL, Harry said this was the time they chose the name "the Way".) Work begins on fixing up the farm. In 1959, he runs a Wisconsin Summer Camp. In 1960, he runs an Indiana Summer Camp. In 1961, he moves to the farm (refurbishment being sufficient for the move). Bishop Pillai arrives and teaches at the summer school. (Per TW:LIL.) In 1961, he runs a Miamisburg, Ohio Summer Camp. In 1962, he moves the summer school to the farm (refurbishment being sufficient to hold classes there in the new BRC.) In 1962, Lamsa teaches at the summer school. (Lamsa is another unconventional teacher who claims special knowledge of the Bible and special status as a man of God.) In 1963, vpw goes to Lima, Ohio and films the sessions called "the Teacher". (Despite this, success STILL has not taken off as vpw wished.) According to the memorial, 1967 is when "Are the Dead Alive Now?" (which is adapted from some of Bullinger's books) was published, and PFAL was filmed. This was the edition of PFAL that incorporated Bullinger's books (the contents, but not the books themselves) into the curriculum. According to TW:LIL In 1967, vpw reads about the Christians at the House of Acts. vpw goes there, impresses them, and convinces them he has extensive, EXCLUSIVE knowledge they lack. He then turns those he can from unorganized Christians into a recruitment arm for his class and organization. They agree to handle things on the East and West coasts, and many young Christians are impressed with THEM and join. According to the memorial, his trip to Haight-Ashbury/House of Acts was in 1968. As of 1969, sizeable numbers of young people had flocked to twi from both coasts as a result. Once there was sizeable membership in both coasts, vpw pushed out the Christians from the House of Acts and insisted authority would come FROM hq and tithes would go TO hq. No exceptions. At that point (1969), vpw made his first attempt at a Way Corps, which resulted in the famous "Zero Corps". At some point-presumably early in the way corps history, and possibly as early as 1969, vpw (according to Mrs W's account) first begins to tell his "snow on the pumps" account to people, starting with the way corps. In 1971, vpw began his WOW Ambassador program. This program underwent some changes, but primarily was a one-year committment to get sent out, support yourself, find housing, and run PFAL classes. According to his memorial, 1971 was when the Orange Book, "Power for Abundant Living" was first self-published. It contained mostly material from Leonard's class and from Bullinger's book "How to Enjoy the Bible". A number of pamphlets called "Studies in Abundant Living" accompanied the PFAL class from fairly early on (the filmed class names "Studies in Human Suffering", later renamed "Job:Victim to Victor".) In 1971, the first 3 volumes of "Studies in Abundant Living" are published. In 1974, Emporia College in Emporia, Kansas is bought. It is renamed "the Way College of Emporia". Despite an absence of accreditation, licensed professors, and a school "library" composed ENTIRELY of used textbooks donated by way members, it is put forth as if it is a normal, accredited college. In 1975, "Jesus Christ is Not God" is published. This is the last book-not counting Vol 4 of Studies in Abundant Living- that is actually put together by vpw. In 1976, campuses are purchased in Rome City, Indiana ("the College of Biblical Research) and Gunnison, Colorado (the Way Family Ranch-Camp Gunnison). In 1977, the PFAL '77 is done live at Ball State University. According to the memorial, in 1977, Howard Allen and "Uncle" Harry Wierwille were installed as Trustees on the Board of Trustees. In 1977, Volume 4 of Studies in Abundant Living was published. In 1978, the land for the LEAD Outdoor Academy was purchased in Tinnie, New Mexico. In 1979, Advanced Class '79 ran (live, I imagine.) In 1980, "Jesus Christ Our Passover" was published. This was the first book written by competent staff and researchers. According to the book itself, it is written "by Victor Paul Wierwille", with no mention of anyone else. It is a higher-caliber book than twi normally self-publishes. In 1982, twi celebrates its "Fortieth Anniversary" since the radio shows that weren't called "the Way". In 1982, vpw installed LCM as the new president of twi and vpw becomes "president emeritus". In 1982, "Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed" was published. It also is written by staff, and says "by Victor Paul Wierwille" on the cover. It relies largely on the calculations of another writer as well. This book also saw the breakthrough of proper crediting, since it actually named the other writer (Martin) and his book. In 1984, a live PFAL class was taught at Camp Gunnison, and a manor house is purchased in Gartmore, Scotland. It is named the Way College of Biblical Research. (aka Gartmore House, or "the big house" to the villagers of Gartmore.) In 1985 the "Word over the World Auditorium" opens at the organizations hq on the farm. vpw dies May 20, 1985 at age 68. Volume 5 of Studies in Abundant Living is published posthumously. Its contents are from vpw, it is edited by Chr1$ Ge** ============ I STILL need to put something better about Lamsa (I'm open to suggestions).

[WordWolf in brackets/boldface.]

Ok, here's the fourth draft of my timeline. Dr Higgins is added in this iteration. This timeline is mostly from publications OF TWI.) ========= Let's see. What did vpw AUTHORIZE to be revealed about himself..... victor paul wierwille was born to a large family of German descent. (Born December 31, 1916.) Each child had their own chores. Little Victor chose to neglect his chores, and would vanish for hours into the woods nearby. When he was young, he once told a minister that he wanted to be a man of God like him. Other than this statement, Little Victor showed no actual involvement in the church, no actual effort or work in the things of the church. So, this seems to suggest an interest-not in being a man of God- but in being the man the whole community turned out to see, to have their respect. As a teenager, young Vic continued to lack any qualities of a man of God. In fact, he went out of his way to earn a reputation going in the opposite direction. He was a bully, a showoff and a braggart. He did all sorts of things for attention. He was quick to start a fight or mouth off at others. He had a quick wit. One of his common ways of showing off was to tear up and down the streets of New Knoxville on his motorcycle, trying to get attention. His demonstrated talents seemed to be limited to his quick wit and his ability to play a guitar, which he showed competency in. Old Man Wierwille was preparing to pass on the family farm to young Vic, as was the family tradition. Young Vic balked at this. He'd had plans to go to college. At first, he considered a few fields-business and so on- but by this time, he had decided upon the seminary. (This was before the time he referred to as "believing the Bible as the Word of God".) Old Man Wierwille was skeptical of this, and said that young Vic, having shown lack of hard work on simple manual labour on the farm, would never make a good preacher. Young Vic convinced him he would do better with books than with sweating out in the field. Young Vic went to school for the ministry. His community thought it was some kind of joke- everyone knew he lacked the proper character. (He never overcame that impression with them.) Victor had the option to study "Bible Languages" or other subjects requiring hard study. He instead chose to study Homiletics, the "softest" option he could have learned. (He never overcame his deficiency in study in Bible languages, church history, etc.-not even to the level of an informed layman as of 2004.) Victor was married July 2, 1937(Mr was 20, Mrs was 21). He graduated with a BA from Lakeland College in 1937. Donald was born in 1940. Victor graduated Princeton Theological Seminary in 1941, to earn his Masters in Practical Theology from Princeton Theological Seminary, also in 1941. He did his "trial sermons" in 1941 in Payne, Ohio for the Evangelical and Reformed Church. According to his memorial in 1985, he started his first pastorate July 1941, and was ordained July 29, 1941. (According to his account in TW:LIL, his first pastorate began in 1944 in Van Wert, Ohio, and continued until 1957.) Victor entered his first pastorate and wasted little time becoming a bully and a control freak AGAIN. He himself claims he started his job by immediately doing whatever the elders told him not to do- even though it hampered his ability to do his job properly. According to him, they confronted him on this, he mouthed off at them, and they just let him go about his business, and the local church prospered as a direct result of him. He was known for building a fairly interesting sermon, and getting people involved, including the youths. (This was STILL before the time when he claimed he believed the Bible was the Word of God.) He said the following year, (1942) he slowly became discouraged and was searching. He was still the man he had been, which is to say he was prideful, arrogant, boastful, liked attention, and viewed the clergy as a PROFESSION and not a holy calling. (He could have been just as "called" as an accountant or actuary, say.) During 1942, he claimed he was ready to give up being a minister. About a year later (Payne, 1942, August), he meets Rosal1nd R1nker. She was a former missionary to China and Korea. She's remembered as the anonymous person who asks vpw "Why don't you search for the greatest of all things in life which would teach Christians the HOW of a really victorious life?" This woman fixed a great deal of attention on him, and had a forceful personality. She spent some time with him alone. It was of this time that he later claimed he asked forgiveness of God. He also credits her with DOGGING HIM "on the Bible being the Word of God", and she "got me STARTED on the right track". which, until this time, he hadn't believed, not even in all his years of school. During 1942, he claimed he was ready to give up being a minister in August AND September. One month later (September 1942), an event happened that he later showed a habit of re-writing. As Victor told God he was getting ready to quit (again), He claimed that God spoke to him and said He (God) would teach him (Victor) His Word (God's Word) like it had not been known since the 1st century, if he (Victor) would teach it to others. (This is the famous 1942 promise.) Victor of course lacked the education in church history to contextualize this claim-since it was inaccurate as stated. This implies that this was a made-up story, or it came from a god lacking knowledge in history. Victor later added a second part to his story- a snowstorm. He said that he required PROOF of God, and asked God to let him see it snow. A moment later, he opened his eyes, and he saw a veritable blizzard out his window. The later addition to this story suggest that he felt it needed more support after using the initial story. Victor showed no marked improvement, neither in character, nor in behaviour, thru the rest of the 1940s (nearly the entire decade after this supposed promise), which strongly supports the rather direct assertion that he lied thru his teeth. October 3, 1942, vpw does his first radio broadcast. He continued to do a radio show under one name or another for several years- Vesper Chimes, aka Chimes Hour Youth Caravan. Its name changes to Chimes Hour Youth Caravan in 1947. Rhoda joined its staff in 1947. In 1948, vpw is issued a "Doctorate" from Pikes Peak Seminary, an organization lacking accreditation and formal classes (among other things.) At one point, Rufus Moseley attempts to minister Holy Spirit to vpw, but vpw demonstrates an inability to receive it. In 1951, he visits missionaries in Honduras. In 1951, vpw makes another claim he's ready to give up on the ministry (even after, supposedly a direct promise of God about really important stuff which promptly failed to materialize.) In November, 1951, vpw attends the Full Gospel Rally, in Tulsa, Oklahoma (a big Evangelical conference.) He made several claims of this conference. People at the conference OTHER than vpw supposedly had no difficulty beginning speaking in tongues. He claims he faked speaking in tongues in a clever way, and others were unable to tell. He is further disillusioned about working for God. He then claims a miraculous snowstorm blocked him into the city entirely, and ALL evidence there was that there WAS no blizzard (and there was a WEALTH of evidence-at the airports, Amtrak and bus depot, the hotel staff, the attendees, etc) was concealed by angels. vpw also, apparently, never approached a window, or they made an illusion at the window. Supposedly, a woman comes up to him and tells him that she knows a man who can help him- JE Stiles. He claims God told Stiles to attend the conference with the sole purpose of ministering the Spirit to vpw. vpw meets with Stiles, and makes a few chauvanistic observations to himself, before going off with Stiles. Stiles works with him for hours and hours, hammering across to vpw what the Bible says on speaking in tongues, and working over his doubts one by one for hour upon hour. Finally, vpw was able to speak in tongues. It was during the 1950s that vpw's behaviour was noted to finally improve, although he still did not stop including inappropriate words or concepts in his sermons. In March, 1953, vpw finds out about BG Leonard, and pushes his way into BG Leonard's CTC Gifts of the Spirit class, which Leonard permits. vpw takes this class twice, bringing several people with him the second time. (That second time was July 1953.) vpw then went off for a few months by himself, then told Leonard that he'd like to run Leonard's CTC Gifts of the Spirit class locally for his congregation on a one-time basis. Seeing the benefit to other Christians, Leonard agrees. vpw then runs the first of "his" PFAL classes, (October 1953) and takes a photograph of that class. He tells the students that this is "his" class called PFAL, with NO mention of Leonard's class from which 100% of the content has been directly lifted. The students have no reason to think he's lying. vpw sends the photograph to Leonard and said tells Leonard that this is a photo of the class that took Leonard's class on a one-time basis that was run locally. Leonard takes vpw at his word, and has no idea that vpw continues to run Leonard's class with vpw's name on it, defrauding both Leonard AND the students. To this day, many students STILL think this was was vpw's class, even when evidence is introduced to the contrary. Later, vpw added the contents of JE Stiles' work on "Gifts of the Spirit" and Bullinger's work on the Holy Spirit as well as "How to Enjoy the Bible", and expanded the class into a class that was the sum of the 3 men's work-Stiles, Bullinger and Leonard-rather than just Leonard. vpw later makes a few offhand comments here and there that the material in the class is not original, but its compilation was. (However, as it was constructed, vpw could have been sued by copyright holders for Bullinger, Stiles, and Leonard. Leonard found out but chose not to prosecute.) In 1953, vpw also takes JE Stiles' "Gifts of the Spirit" book, changes a few words, and self-publishes it as the 1st Edition of "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." (Later editions would include incorporation of material from Leonard and Bullinger, and would include more cosmetic changes in the order of the words and the specific words used in an attempt to make it look less like Stiles' book.) vpw runs "his" PFAL classes continually from 1953 onward, with some success. Dr E.E. Higgins was one of the students in the October 1953 class. She's known as the anonymous person who would call vpw at night and ask what God showed him that day. In 1954, Dr Higgins first introduced vpw to EW Bullinger's books, and gave him his first copies of the Companion Bible, and "How to Enjoy the Bible." The contents of both these books later became integral parts of "vpw's" class. According to his published memorial, Bishop KC Pillai took PFAL in 1954, and began teaching a class on "Orientalisms of the Bible". (Pillai also wrote 3 small books: "Light Through an Eastern Window" and Volumes I and II of "Orientalisms of the Bible.") According to the memorial in 1985, 1955 was the year they officially chartered "the Way". In 1955, JP was born. 2 months later, VPW leaves JP with family for the next year or so, taking his wife and eldest son on a tour of the mission fields in India, on the Evangelical and Reformed Church's dime. (1955-1957) (Per TW:LIL) He is irritated that he's reminded he is not officially designated as a spokesman or investigator of theirs. According to his account in TW:LIL, there he meets Bishop KC Pillai, whom he later invites to teach. According to the memorial, this tour of the mission fields from 1955-1956, and includes stops in Great Britain, Europe, India, and "the Bible lands." According to the memorial, 1956 is when he wrote "the Dilemma of Foreign Missions in India." (According to TW:LIL) In 1957, vpw returns to Van Wert. He cuts his ties with the Evangelical and Reformed Church, and takes "his" PFAL class with him. In 1957, he and Harry buy out their brothers and buy the family farm outright. Rather than take ownership themselves, they declare it the property of "the Way", a church organization (thus tax-exempt.) (Per TW:LIL, Harry said this was the time they chose the name "the Way".) Work begins on fixing up the farm. In 1959, he runs a Wisconsin Summer Camp. In 1960, he runs an Indiana Summer Camp. In 1961, he moves to the farm (refurbishment being sufficient for the move). Bishop Pillai arrives and teaches at the summer school. (Per TW:LIL.) In 1961, he runs a Miamisburg, Ohio Summer Camp. In 1962, he moves the summer school to the farm (refurbishment being sufficient to hold classes there in the new BRC.) In 1962, Lamsa teaches at the summer school. (Lamsa is another unconventional teacher who claims special knowledge of the Bible and special status as a man of God.) In 1963, vpw goes to Lima, Ohio and films the sessions called "the Teacher". (Despite this, success STILL has not taken off as vpw wished.) According to the memorial, 1967 is when "Are the Dead Alive Now?" (which is adapted from some of Bullinger's books) was published, and PFAL was filmed. This was the edition of PFAL that incorporated Bullinger's books (the contents, but not the books themselves) into the curriculum. According to TW:LIL In 1967, vpw reads about the Christians at the House of Acts. vpw goes there, impresses them, and convinces them he has extensive, EXCLUSIVE knowledge they lack. He then turns those he can from unorganized Christians into a recruitment arm for his class and organization. They agree to handle things on the East and West coasts, and many young Christians are impressed with THEM and join. According to the memorial, his trip to Haight-Ashbury/House of Acts was in 1968. As of 1969, sizeable numbers of young people had flocked to twi from both coasts as a result. Once there was sizeable membership in both coasts, vpw pushed out the Christians from the House of Acts and insisted authority would come FROM hq and tithes would go TO hq. No exceptions. At that point (1969), vpw made his first attempt at a Way Corps, which resulted in the famous "Zero Corps". At some point-presumably early in the way corps history, and possibly as early as 1969, vpw (according to Mrs W's account) first begins to tell his "snow on the pumps" account to people, starting with the way corps. In 1971, vpw began his WOW Ambassador program. This program underwent some changes, but primarily was a one-year committment to get sent out, support yourself, find housing, and run PFAL classes. According to his memorial, 1971 was when the Orange Book, "Power for Abundant Living" was first self-published. It contained mostly material from Leonard's class and from Bullinger's book "How to Enjoy the Bible". A number of pamphlets called "Studies in Abundant Living" accompanied the PFAL class from fairly early on (the filmed class names "Studies in Human Suffering", later renamed "Job:Victim to Victor".) In 1971, the first 3 volumes of "Studies in Abundant Living" are published. In 1974, Emporia College in Emporia, Kansas is bought. It is renamed "the Way College of Emporia". Despite an absence of accreditation, licensed professors, and a school "library" composed ENTIRELY of used textbooks donated by way members, it is put forth as if it is a normal, accredited college. In 1975, "Jesus Christ is Not God" is published. This is the last book-not counting Vol 4 of Studies in Abundant Living- that is actually put together by vpw. In 1976, campuses are purchased in Rome City, Indiana ("the College of Biblical Research) and Gunnison, Colorado (the Way Family Ranch-Camp Gunnison). In 1977, the PFAL '77 is done live at Ball State University. According to the memorial, in 1977, Howard Allen and "Uncle" Harry Wierwille were installed as Trustees on the Board of Trustees. In 1977, Volume 4 of Studies in Abundant Living was published. In 1978, the land for the LEAD Outdoor Academy was purchased in Tinnie, New Mexico. In 1979, Advanced Class '79 ran (live, I imagine.) In 1980, "Jesus Christ Our Passover" was published. This was the first book written by competent staff and researchers. According to the book itself, it is written "by Victor Paul Wierwille", with no mention of anyone else. It is a higher-caliber book than twi normally self-publishes. In 1982, twi celebrates its "Fortieth Anniversary" since the radio shows that weren't called "the Way". In 1982, vpw installed LCM as the new president of twi and vpw becomes "president emeritus". In 1982, "Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed" was published. It also is written by staff, and says "by Victor Paul Wierwille" on the cover. It relies largely on the calculations of another writer as well. This book also saw the breakthrough of proper crediting, since it actually named the other writer (Martin) and his book. In 1984, a live PFAL class was taught at Camp Gunnison, and a manor house is purchased in Gartmore, Scotland. It is named the Way College of Biblical Research. (aka Gartmore House, or "the big house" to the villagers of Gartmore.) In 1985 the "Word over the World Auditorium" opens at the organizations hq on the farm. vpw dies May 20, 1985 at age 68. Volume 5 of Studies in Abundant Living is published posthumously. Its contents are from vpw, it is edited by Chr1$ Ge** ============ I STILL need to put something better about Lamsa (I'm open to suggestions).

Let's explain this "parroting." Parroting, as I see it, is when someone just repeats either the words of someone else, or the actions of someone else. They usually are done without any actual THINKING and without regard for whether or not what is said or done is appropriate, and might even be horribly bad in a situation. Examples of parroting words: Someone in "leadership" has produced a teaching claiming God is not All-Knowing. When someone challenges the Scriptural accuracy of such a claim (with verses that say the opposite), they hear-from several leaders at different levels- "All I know is that what God's Word says He knows, He knows." This, of course, does NOTHING to address the issue. Someone in the rank-and-file challenges the debt policy of twi, and how it's costing them a LOT of people who leave or are thrown out. He claims this policy is based on a misunderstanding of Scripture. He's tired of seeing people he respects leave over foolishness. The response he gets? "It sounds like you have been reading internet rumours." Of course, this has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. A high school class has a visitor-a survivor of the Holocaust. A few students-twi innies- begin reciting what they were taught in twi- denouncing her and calling her a LIAR, and reducing her to tears. Of course, one person's EYEWITNESS account should count for any number of people's SPECULATIONS, but in twi, no dice. (Yes, all of these have happened.)

Since quoting it didn't result in a clickable link, here it is again... http://www.greasespotcafe.com/editorial/top-ten-list.htm Personally, I'd go thru all the links off the main page, in all the menus http://www.greasespotcafe.com at least once a year. You forget what's in them after a while.

How about reproof for wearing stuff with Christian slogans on it? Nobody had the guts to come up to my FACE and tell me, but they muttered behind my back about me not being "serious". Wearing a target 24/7 was not a sign of being "serious". You want to be "serious", you had to put on a suit and never smile. Fine. I'm STILL not "serious."

Wasn't that the latest Harry Potter flick?

You'll be missed. We'll try and keep the party going til you return.

I was going to make just 1989-1990 one thread, since so many people left in that "year". In April 1989, after all the leadership/corps were asked to swear an oath of allegiance to craig, a letter was sent out to EVERYONE. That letter was identical in every state, except the names were changed. Basically, it said that "some leaders in your state are evil and are abusing their offices as leaders, so we fired them. By name, they are (names)." The irony on that is that the people abusing their offices as leaders were the ones doing the firings. The bland, non-specific nature of the claims, and the flat addition of all these people-whom, locally, had EARNED respect- made the letter highly suspicious at best. It looked like a form letter but was claiming not to be. (Little did I know it was the same in structure as the letter that was presented to the bot by cg a few years earlier- vague accusations lacking specifics.) With that, believers in a lot of locations now had more confidence in the people being fired than in the people doing the firing. Some sent letters asking specifically what their leaders did. twi sent back form letters saying, in essence, "don't worry about that-just trust us without question." So, about 4 out of every 5 believers walked. twi themselves made this a LOT easier, by dismissing all the leaders at once, thus ensuring anyone who left had a ready-to-use support structure to utilize. I dropped in on Rock of Ages '89. My intentions were to see things for myself, and handle things for myself. If things went well, apologies would be issued and I'd be RIGHT THERE when they were. If things went badly, I would use this one last chance to buy out the bookstore. I had also attended ROA '88. Now, I had heard ROA's had been decreasing in quality steadily starting 1985. I had heard 87 was hardly worthy to be compared to 86. I attended ROA 88, and had a good time. I had nothing to compare it to, but it seemed to be worth attending. Events did not seem forced, and there were many joyful people showing spontaneous joy. ROA '89 was far short of that. ROA '89 was like someone trying to put on an ROA after a description of ROA '88. Everything seemed forced and mechanical. There were errors (obvious errors) in the keynote teachings, and EVERYTHING-I mean EVERYTHING-invoked either the current bot or the wierwille family. And the constant "stand for the leader" thing got SO blatant, overused and cliche, that at one point, Howard Allen himself signalled people not to stand for him. (It seemed like he thought he'd gotten ENOUGH forced adulation for one day or something.) In fact, that struck me as the LEAST-rehearsed, most spontaneous gesture all week. One consistent hallmark was that the keynote teaching was ALWAYS preceeded by a song where we were asked to stand for the song, and the keynote speaker came out during the song's closing while we were still singing. The net result was them basically "tricking" people into standing for the speaker. That struck me as plastic and rehearsed. ROA 89, actually, is worth several more posts. The amount of monitoring of conversations and groupthink was amazing. I met a complete stranger who was a new student on the last night, and explained a few things to him-not hitting him with everything. One of the first things I said was that conversations were being listened in on. We spoke and walked a bit, then one comment I made was rebutted by a monitoring resident corps person-who had no idea he just proved all my EARLIER points by showing he was listening in.

Just so I know-is this the song lyic line?

The problem I have with this is the problem with Byzantine text in general. Later text shows writers who, often, could not resist "jazzing up" the text. Similar issues to these guys having names is how the Magi became exactly 3 guys, who were also KINGS, (but not from Libya), and then having the names Gaspar, Melchior and Balthasar. History's first known "harmonies" can illustrate what is common beliefs of the time. If that's what you were hoping to illustrate-it does. At the time of Tatian's Diatessaron (was that the Old Syriac one?), the common belief was that there were two. So, that was not a "recent invention". Either it was the original belief, or it is a very old belief. Since we don't have the documents Tatian worked from, we can't prove more than that in this case, however.

You want to see spooky similarities, I once posted this: ======== "He said things were going to happen that didn't. Scandals and serious accusations of corruption dogged his 'ministry', especially sexual accusations. He lived with many luxuries, complete with planes. He plagiarized 'his' work, and claimed it was revealed to him by God. He claimed it was revealed to him ALONE in this century. He claimed 'his' ministry was the sole 'one true church' today. He promised that financial success and an 'ABUNDANT' life were there for people who followed his instructions. He died never having offered reparations or apologies to even SOME of the Christians whose lives he ruined. He died on January 16, 1986 at the age of 93." ========= http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/why_hwa.htm http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/perfect.htm http://ejm.tripod.com/nobody_held_a_gun.htm

Good morning, strawman! See, having studied and analyzed what vpw HIMSELF said about his personal history, and then using a few outside references as addendum, it never seemed to me what you're suggesting here. I imagine that SOMEONE might hold that position, but I imagine ALL positions are held by SOMEONE. The vast majority HERE, however, holds a more "reasonable", logical view. See, history doesn't happen all at once. People can plan ahead, but they make their plans, and execute their plans, and they must face reality interfering with those plans all the time. Sometimes it moves things along, sometimes it hinders them, sometimes it stops them dead in their tracks. (Do you think lcm would have continued his mad steering if he'd known the internet was going to come along any make him unable to make information- and PEOPLE-vanish?) In the earliest of years, vpw slacked out on all attempts to work (ditched on chores and so on.) His only connection to holiness was-supposedly-one time he told an out-of-town visiting minister (who got treated well and respected) that vpw wanted to be a man of God like him. (He NEVER followed up in the church in ANY capacity.) As a teenager, he showed off for attention, and lacked integrity. He earned a reputation as a bully and a showoff. When it came to college, he'd considered business, and entertainment, and the seminary,(etc.) and selected the seminary out of the possible "professions"-hardly a "calling of God". When he went to the seminary, he chose the SOFTEST option-"Homiletics" rather than "Bible Languages" or another subject requiring dedicated study. When he entered into his first pastorate, he established himself as a bully and a control freak. Was that "his plan" all along- be a control freak? No, but we must struggle against our "natures" if we are to overcome them- and he did no such struggling. What he wanted, ultimately, was: A) I want attention. I want respect. I want lots of both. B) I want an "easy" job where I can bs. C) I want a job where I am in CHARGE and not accountable. D) I want money and things. Supposedly, he kept getting ready to quit a lot in the first few years. (No commitment.) Other than being entertaining, and keeping the teenagers involved, he was unremarkable as a minister. He did a radio show from 1942 thru sometime past 1947, while "earning" his "Doctorate" from Pike's Peak Seminary, by mail correspondence. In 1951, he meets Stiles, who ministers to him, and walks him thru speaking in tongues for the first time (which takes a few hours.) This marks the first time his conduct improves at all. However, by 1953, he's able to completely rip off Leonard's CTC Gifts of the Spirit class and call its entire contents "his own". In 1953, he also completely rips off the contents of Stiles' "Gifts of the Spirit" book and call its entire contents "his own". (He later added to both, but NEVER claimed they weren't "his own".) 5 years later, vpw leaves the denomination that had supported him up until this time, forms a church corporation (tax-exempt), and put the family farm in its name (exempting it from taxes.) In 1962, he has Lamsa teaching at his farm. (Lamsa claims special knowledge of the Bible, and special status as a man of God.) In 1963, he films "the Teacher." In 1967 or 1968 (twi's own sources conflict on this), vpw visits the Christians in Haight-Ashbury. What does he tell them? Well, from Lamsa, he learned to claim he has special knowledge of the Bible, and special status as a man of God. From Kenyon, Bullinger, Stiles and Leonard, he got knowledge the average Christian didn't have. He claimed this wasn't due to authors or other Christians-but from his own special connection to God, which he NOW attributed to an incident in 1942-over 20 year ago, which now involves the voice of God and a miraculous snowstorm. (Later, he also added a miraculous snowstorm to the 1953 account of the Stiles incident.) He convinces them he knows special things (which he does to a degree- but he lied about the reason.) He's an interesting teacher with a unique doctrine. He takes the class he got from Leonard and charges them for it. He takes the holy spirit experience and training from Stiles, and adds it to the class, thus using it as a method of social control and making a normative experience of it, also taking credit for THAT. So, when did the "snowstorm" come in? Sometime between 1951 (Tulsa and Stiles) and 1967/1968 (meeting the hippies in Haight-Ashbury at the House of Acts). He used that story with them. Most likely, it was invented at least a few years after 1953 (steals Leonard's class), since the story supposedly explains-and is supported by-the special knowledge he used in "the class". By 1967, he's released "Are the Dead Alive Now?" (a rewrite of a few of Bullinger's books), so I'd say the LATEST he began to claim this was 1967, after the release of ADAN and before the Haight-Ashbury trip. WHY did he go? Well, he'd always been good with youngsters, and taught interestingly. He now had special doctrines, and claim to a title of specialness (a class and books). What he lacked was NUMBERS-numbers of easy-to-convince zealots. That means they had to lack experience, and lack the coolness acquired by age. Both of those mean he needed YOUNG people. If I were to connect the dots, I'd say that he was looking for these young people from the time he left his denomination in 1957, if not earlier. As soon as he hears about large numbers of young, zealous Christians, he heads right over there. BEFORE this, there's some matter of his involvement with his secretaries in a FEW places, and other infidelities. When he was there, he noted how free they were with affection. He also asked someone for the DETAILS of what an orgy was like-pressing the questions. Did he hijack the hippies with the specific intention of getting the horizontal mambo on with some of them? I don't think that was the MAIN reason-but I could be wrong. If it was not the #2 reason, though, I'd be shocked. I think that, having NO opportunity, he would have MADE one again, and being presented with one, he made the most of it. After all, he also had no problem showing pornography to teenagers. (Including stuff I as an ADULT have never actually seen-and I've seen a few things, especially since I hang out in Manhattan.) ======== [snip]

Is that from the "Highlander" movie? (Movie 1.) It reminds me of Connor MacLeod over his lost love's grave.

Like Mount Sinai?

Please continue on that last point.

[WordWolf in boldface and brackets.] [Meanwhile, we were discussing a few Greek words and the crucifixion.]

Now that we're really spending time on this "numerical" thing, I've looked close enough to see there's no way it CAN be correct. Now, supposedly, "heteros" (different other) is used when referring to ONLY TWO and "allos" (other of the same kind) is used when referring to MORE THAN TWO. ========== John 19:32 "Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other (ALLO) which was crucified with him." ===== Ok, there were either 2 people crucified with Jesus, or there were 4 people crucified with Jesus. Two of them had their legs broken before Jesus was approached. They broke the legs of the first, and the "other" ("allo".) Now, that either means the "other" was "of the same kind", or he was "another of more than two." Supposedly, if there were EXACTLY two on that side, the word would have been "heteros", or "your whole Bible would fall to pieces." However, it is the other of the SAME KIND, which means they were not of DIFFERENT KINDS- which would be "heteros" again. So, "heteros" doesn't mean "exactly two" AND both criminals in this account were of the SAME KIND. If one committed Crime A ("robbery") and the other committed Crime B ("malefacting"), then they would be of DIFFERENT KINDS- which is one of vpw's major points to attempt to prove there were 4 criminals. So, the criminals approached before they came to Jesus-using vpw's premises- are both of the SAME KIND- both "robbers" or both "malefactors". Therefore: A) "heteros" never means "other when there's exactly two" B) Jesus was approached after the legs of 2 criminals of the same type were broken. Under vpw's construct, there was one "robber" and one "malefactor" on each side of Jesus, but this is impossible if John 19:32 is correct. (And John 19:32 is correct.) ========== I would never have noticed this if WTH hadn't been so insistent on this point. I don't think this is the definitive "smoking gun" that there were exactly 2 criminals, but it strengthens that case at the expense of the 4 criminals case.

skyrider, comparing the "kinder, gentler twi" and churches: Xena,quoting a twi innie's comments about the Utah landscape....

Bet that had no effect on his salary checks arriving on time, however...

Correct! Technically, I'm not sure their cover included the "now" quote, but that's the same song the Smiths did. And most people know it as the theme to that show. Morrisey's trademark whine is pretty distinct. I was getting ready for the other lyrics they use for the show- "I am human and I need to be loved Just like everybody else does." "See, I've already waited too long And all my hope is gone." I figured by THAT time, SOMEBODY'd know it. (Or at least I hoped.) ======= So, Belle, correct, and your turn.