WordWolf

Picard, Troi, LaForge, & Data came back from a conference. Yes, it's TIMESCAPE. Your turn.

For those wondering, that's this thread here.... http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...c=7363&st=0 Personally, I find this other thread useful for a different look, one from inside, when the cameras weren't rolling... "vp and me in wonderland" http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...c=8019&st=0

You mean like when he told JD how God was ok with orgies, and used Scripture to rationalize it? I bet EP missed each time we discussed it so far...

[That's the net result of dismissing all problems WITH this program, its execution, and the "aggressive marketing" categorically-that the program is NEVER to blame, but some OTHER source (the victims conned into taking it) are ALWAYS to blame. (Again, not all people who took it feel they were damaged. Bully for them- I'm addressing the victims.)] [There are degrees and degrees of risk. Leaving one's home contains risks. Blindfolding yourself and running around on the highway contains risks. It's amazing I need to spell this out-again- but the issue is "DO THE BENEFITS OUTWEIGH THE RISKS, and CAN WE ACHEIVE THE BENEFITS WITH FEWER RISKS?"] [However, the response so far has been to sweep the claims of harm under the rug- or just to try to remove any legal responsibility for the harm inflicted from the program that inflicted the harm. If those are my ONLY two choices- and any HEALTHY group would at least CONSIDER the THIRD option of a COMPLETE OVERHAUL- then I'd rather "throw the PROGRAM in the dumpster" than the current ces/stfi approach- which is to throw the PEOPLE in the dumpster.] [And the point I made earlier is that all risk =\= growth. And relabelling damage into "growth" in no way makes it growth. Then again, some will argue ALL experiences = growth, and that means that digging your way out of the rubble of the World Trade Center, or surviving rocket attacks in Iraq as part of a convoy both produce growth. Under that model, Momentus always produces growth. However, in each case, does the growth justify the risks involved?] [What's that behind me? Feels like smoke being blown. I almost miss when people who found me frustrating and a trial actually ADMITTED it and didn't pretend they existed on some more profound spiritual plateau...]

Dick Van Patten Spaceballs John Hurt

Looks like we need another clue or something.

"You can't keep playing Parises Squares like you're twenty-one years old. One of these days you're going to fall and break your neck... and I won't be able to heal that so easily." "Actually... I wasn't playing Parises Squares..." "Mmm... Worf's calisthenic program again..." "No..." "Oh? What were you doing?" "I was trying to feed Spot." "Data's cat?" "I told Data I'd feed it while he was away. All I remember is setting down the food... and then a hissing ball of fur came out of nowhere. I hate cats." "So just as I'm leaving the reception, a Ktarian walks up to me and says... '...So Diane... I understand you're an empath. I'm a very...sensitive man myself. I'm doing a thesis on interspecies mating rituals. Would you care to join me in some empirical research?" "Don't tell me -- Doctor Mizan." "That's right." "He's notorious. But he really is an expert on interspecies mating practices." "Did you help him with his research, Counselor?" "Absolutely not." "But I thought that topic interested you." "Yes... but..." "I'll explain it to you later, Data." "It wasn't any better at the physiognomy workshop. Doctor Vassbinder gave an hour long dissertation on the ionization effect of warp nacelles -- before he realized the topic was supposed to be psychology." "Why didn't somebody tell him?" "There was never an opportunity, never a pause. He just kept talk-ing like he was speak-ing in one in-credibly long, run-on sen-tence... .....It was almost hypnotic." "Geordi -- I believe I have an explanation. According to the plasma conversion sensor, the starboard engine has been in continuous operation for over forty-seven days." "Forty-seven days? Let's take a look at that sensor -- it must be malfunctioning." "I'll check the fuel consumption logs..." "My internal chronometer and the ship's computer are perfectly synchronized. There does not appear to be a temporal discrepancy." "Captain -- I believe his species mistook the artificial singularity, which the Romulans use in their engine, for a natural one... a black hole. They tried to use it as a nest. " "In much the same way that deep sea divers can experience nitrogen narcosis -- you experienced a form of temporal narcosis." "I have boiled the same amount of water in this kettle sixty-two times. In some cases, I ignored the kettle. In others, I watched it intently. In every instance, the water reached its boiling point in precisely fifty-one point seven seconds."

"Maury, I am out of control. Yeah, I use drugs. I can do what I waunt, biatch! Yeah, I have sex, and I don't use protection!" Cartman getting on the Maury Povich show. " Don't worry. There are no stupid answers, just stupid people. " Mr Garrison's typical snarkiness. "Do your impersonation of David Caruso's career!" An often-quoted line from the first episode--when Kyle needed Ike to drop into the snow. "You know what? I've learned something today..." Stan at the end of many episodes. Respect my authorit-ay!" Cartman, with one of his most famous lines. "But, I'm a psychic." "No, dude. You're a douche." "I'm not a douche. What if I really believed dead people talk to me?" "Then, you're a STUPID douche." Stan and John Edwards. We discussed this episode on the GSC before. "TIMAH! And the Lords of the Underworld!" Timmy's famous "TIMAH!" and "his" rock-band. "But, ladies and gentlemen of this SUPPOSED jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!" "Dammit!" "What?" "He's using the Chewbacca Defense!" "Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this SUPPOSED jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests." Johnny Cochran and the famous Chewbacca Defense. If you've never seen it, you should catch it off YouTube at some point. It's cited online as a tactic of distraction. "But what if when I'm putting on the nose, the snowman comes to life and tries to kill me?!" "Tweek, when has that ever happened except for that one time?" A reference to one of the aborted pilot episodes, and Tweek is mentioned here. That's the jumpy kid whose dad runs a coffee shop, and drinks loads of coffee. "We have to return the 'Lord of the Rings' to the Two Towers." Their LotR spoof episode, where they took the tape of LotR back to the Two Towers video store. "You want some Cheesy Poofs, too?" "Yeah, I want Cheesy Poofs!" C'mon, where else have you heard of Cheesy Poofs? "You know who I am, don't you?" "Well, you ain't Fiona Apple, and if you ain't Fiona Apple, I don't give a rat's a@$$." I mentioned this once. This is what Officer BarBrady said to Barbra Streisand. "Step one: Steal underpants, Step two: (silence), Step Three: Profit!!!" This was the grand plan of the underwear-stealing gnomes, who only lacked a way to get to the profit stage. It's a catch-phrase in some circles. Go, Raf!

Unmistakeably.

And that's ~3000 in the US, at most-including the children. And there are still adults leaving. And there are still kids leaving when they're of age. And new people are almost impossible to bring in, or especially RETAIN. Small wonder twi's been hiding their numbers. Oh, and the way corps has been graduating classes as big as FIVE MEMBERS lately. And some of them are people forced to retake stuff as a show of loyalty. Sooner or later, each frog eventually notices that the water in the pot is approaching a boil, and some continue to jump ship. Some, of course, will proudly boil rather than leave "God's pot".

I thought that was worth repeating. This was worth repeating, also...

[sounds like you're calling the speaker "evil" for exposing a liar and a thief. Or did you mean that differently? That's fascinating- all the prophets of old would likewise be considered "evil" for performing their assigned function. Many people in power claimed that, and inflicted suffering on them for that. Remember what they did to Jeremiah? And he wasn't one of the one who was killed outright for speaking up for God. You place yourself in the same camp as their afflicters when you claim those who speak up are automatically "evil." (I suppose the lookout on the Titanic-who spotted an iceberg- he was also "speaking evil" or some other renamed foolishness.) vpw performed direct evil. He lied, he plagiarized, he stole, he deceived, he raped, he drugged, he exposed himself to females, he played a pornographic bestiality video for some of the corps, he screamed at people who failed to prostrate themselves sufficiently for him, and other things. All of those have been documented, in detail. By eyewitnesses and victims, and sometimes official documents of twi. They're NOT hard to find.] [And vpw was firmly wound in it, and saw to it that others were caught as well.] [ultimately, yes. This does not dismiss the functions of RIGHT ACTION and ABSTAINING from even the APPEARANCE of evil, let alone the PERFORMANCE of evil.] [And all the OTHER truths are those you care NOTHING about- like the ongoing performance of evil-so long as you approve of the performer's doctrine and delivery- and it's not YOU or YOURS that are being victimized. I bet your pious posturing tune would change in an INSTANT if one of those so-called servants of God drugged and raped your wife or daughter. Would it be "Oh, turn to Jesus, sweet one, he will deliver you from your suffering?" NO- it would be "He did WHAT? I'll take care of this-where'd I leave my pistol and baseball bat?" And if your response would NOT be outrage, then SHAME ON YOU. SHAME ON YOU for having such a callous, atrophied heart that you can't see the need to avenge the suffering of the innocent.]

"I recall discussing VPW with John Lynn 15 or so years ago, and John wanting me to see how much "evil" was involved in the Way. He didn't think I was seeing it for some reason. I did, but I still don't care to focus on that crap." [in other words, John Lynn himself was well aware of the evils in twi (and is now oblivious to evils in ces/stfi even when specifics are brought to him by people who know better), and you consider the evils done by vpw himself, lcm and the trained cadre under vpw as INSIGNIFICANT. Women were raped, women were drugged, THEN raped, children were beaten 1/2 to unconsciousness, some developing long-term psychological damage, some children were molested and twi'ers did a breakin to steal evidence against the "minister" who did it, and relocated him-more than once, one man blew his brains out because lcm insisted on repeatedly having sex with that man's wife, vast coverups of all the above were done, women were raped as the result of mandatory hitchhiking to LEAD-and vpw himself blew off the accounts and did nothing to change the program, one corps participant was crippled from injuries caused by an accident in an unsafe vehicle used by the corps- then was kicked out of the corps and committed suicide, people leaving twi were told it would be better if they just killed themselves, the corps were treated like slave labour for life-by vpw himself, and the doctrine of "the lockbox"-all these things were PERMISSABLE for the top echelon and anyone else should remain silent- besides other evils that escape me at the moment- and you considered all of that INSIGNIFICANT.][ "All that evil is fairly minimal when compared to the tremendous Truth that was held forth by Dr W. Likewise John L." [First of all, lives were ENDED, lives were LOST, lives were RUINED, and you consider those "fairly minimal." I thank God you are not in charge of determining the value of MY OWN LIFE. I consider each person worth more than that- even when they utter such callous, despicable things. To you, lives are EXPENDABLE so long as the organization and its programs are reflecting the doctrines you want. That's what you just said. Second of all, you appear remarkably ill-informed as to the proven doctrinal errors in twi at the pen of vpw, and the practical errors he did and taught were perfectly acceptable (if you were in the inner cadre) and are remarkably ill-informed to the degree that the entire package of twi- excepting the permissiveness and policies I objected to- were all ripped off from other Christians. The entire pfal class was taken straight from the works of other Christians- Leonard, Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger- with vpw's name added and their names removed. All the early twi books were taken directly from the books of other Christians- with vpw's name added and their names removed. All the later twi books were the work of twi research people- with vpw's name added and their names never mentioned- and not even mentioned by category (as in "the research dept worked on this".) Third of all, you seem determined to make THE SAME MISTAKE and give John L a free pass. People's lives were ruined? Some had breakdowns? Some were destroyed by Momentus, "personal prophecies", and ridicule from the pulpit? Oh, that's not important- he's teaching the Doctrine I respect! Ignore the lost and damaged lives. In conclusion, you're reflecting a position of "I got mine-who cares if you suffer?" All the pious posting on the internet can't wipe away a callous heart, nor excuse it.] "it's the same old story, the same old spiritual battle," [it is indeed. Lives are STILL being sacrificed at the whims of leadership, and other lives are GLOSSING THAT OVER. I consider that SPIRITUAL DARKNESS. You may consider that something else- like "excusable" or "crap" or "minimal". Jesus cares about ALL Christians- not just the leaders- and would NEVER allow the one lost sheep to be cast aside. He makes sure the lost sheep is found. How do you think he'd address the attitude that suffering Christians are "minimal"?]

"You can't keep playing Parises Squares like you're twenty-one years old. One of these days you're going to fall and break your neck... and I won't be able to heal that so easily." "Actually... I wasn't playing Parises Squares..." "Mmm... Worf's calisthenic program again..." "No..." "Oh? What were you doing?" "I was trying to feed Spot." "Data's cat?" "I told Data I'd feed it while he was away. All I remember is setting down the food... and then a hissing ball of fur came out of nowhere. I hate cats." "So just as I'm leaving the reception, a Ktarian walks up to me and says... '...So Diane... I understand you're an empath. I'm a very...sensitive man myself. I'm doing a thesis on interspecies mating rituals. Would you care to join me in some empirical research?" "Don't tell me -- Doctor Mizan." "That's right." "He's notorious. But he really is an expert on interspecies mating practices." "Did you help him with his research, Counselor?" "Absolutely not." "But I thought that topic interested you." "Yes... but..." "I'll explain it to you later, Data." "It wasn't any better at the physiognomy workshop. Doctor Vassbinder gave an hour long dissertation on the ionization effect of warp nacelles -- before he realized the topic was supposed to be psychology." "Why didn't somebody tell him?" "There was never an opportunity, never a pause. He just kept talk-ing like he was speak-ing in one in-credibly long, run-on sen-tence... .....It was almost hypnotic." "Geordi -- I believe I have an explanation. According to the plasma conversion sensor, the starboard engine has been in continuous operation for over forty-seven days." "Forty-seven days? Let's take a look at that sensor -- it must be malfunctioning." "I'll check the fuel consumption logs..."

"Is anyone else having problems concentrating on this? I just can't seem to concentrate." "Maybe we should send you to a concentration camp." "Maury, I am out of control. Yeah, I use drugs. I can do what I waunt, biatch! Yeah, I have sex, and I don't use protection!" " Don't worry. There are no stupid answers, just stupid people. " "Do your impersonation of David Caruso's career!" "You know what? I've learned something today..." "Well, that about does it. If you have any questions, I'll leave information packets up front." "Oh that's good, we need some more toilet paper." Respect my authorit-ay!" "But, I'm a psychic." "No, dude. You're a douche." "I'm not a douche. What if I really believed dead people talk to me?" "Then, you're a STUPID douche." "Umm, Mom..." "Yes, honey?" "Um, can I got to the Special Olympics and beat all the special children?" "No, honey, I believe that is for special children." "You mean, I'm not special? I thought you said I was special!" "Okay, children. Let's all gather around and bob for stupid apples now. You go first, Bebe. That's good. Just use those mouth muscles like the girls in Beijing." "TIMAH! And the Lords of the Underworld!" "But, ladies and gentlemen of this SUPPOSED jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!" "Dammit!" "What?" "He's using the Chewbacca Defense!" "Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this SUPPOSED jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests." "But what if when I'm putting on the nose, the snowman comes to life and tries to kill me?!" "Tweek, when has that ever happened except for that one time?" "We have to return the 'Lord of the Rings' to the Two Towers." "You want some Cheesy Poofs, too?" "Yeah, I want Cheesy Poofs!" "You know who I am, don't you?" "Well, you ain't Fiona Apple, and if you ain't Fiona Apple, I don't give a rat's a@$$." "Step one: Steal underpants, Step two: (silence), Step Three: Profit!!!"

*looks it up* Correct! Your turn.

The last one wasn't Deanna doing an impersonation, it was Picard.

You are trying far too hard....

"Is anyone else having problems concentrating on this? I just can't seem to concentrate." "Maybe we should send you to a concentration camp." "Maury, I am out of control. Yeah, I use drugs. I can do what I waunt, biatch! Yeah, I have sex, and I don't use protection!" " Don't worry. There are no stupid answers, just stupid people. " "Do your impersonation of David Caruso's career!" "You know what? I've learned something today..." "Well, that about does it. If you have any questions, I'll leave information packets up front." "Oh that's good, we need some more toilet paper." Respect my authorit-ay!" "But, I'm a psychic." "No, dude. You're a douche." "I'm not a douche. What if I really believed dead people talk to me?" "Then, you're a STUPID douche." "Umm, Mom..." "Yes, honey?" "Um, can I got to the Special Olympics and beat all the special children?" "No, honey, I believe that is for special children." "You mean, I'm not special? I thought you said I was special!" "Okay, children. Let's all gather around and bob for stupid apples now. You go first, Bebe. That's good. Just use those mouth muscles like the girls in Beijing." "TIMAH! And the Lords of the Underworld!"

"You can't keep playing Parises Squares like you're twenty-one years old. One of these days you're going to fall and break your neck... and I won't be able to heal that so easily." "Actually... I wasn't playing Parises Squares..." "Mmm... Worf's calisthenic program again..." "No..." "Oh? What were you doing?" "I was trying to feed Spot." "Data's cat?" "I told Data I'd feed it while he was away. All I remember is setting down the food... and then a hissing ball of fur came out of nowhere. I hate cats." "So just as I'm leaving the reception, a Ktarian walks up to me and says... '...So Diane... I understand you're an empath. I'm a very...sensitive man myself. I'm doing a thesis on interspecies mating rituals. Would you care to join me in some empirical research?" "Don't tell me -- Doctor Mizan." "That's right." "He's notorious. But he really is an expert on interspecies mating practices." "Did you help him with his research, Counselor?" "Absolutely not." "But I thought that topic interested you." "Yes... but..." "I'll explain it to you later, Data." "It wasn't any better at the physiognomy workshop. Doctor Vassbinder gave an hour long dissertation on the ionization effect of warp nacelles -- before he realized the topic was supposed to be psychology." "Why didn't somebody tell him?" "There was never an opportunity, never a pause. He just kept talk-ing like he was speak-ing in one in-credibly long, run-on sen-tence... .....It was almost hypnotic."

[bravo. I'm overjoyed for you. I never said NOBODY benefitted from this program-or at least THINKS they did. My comment was a PARAPHRASE- that people have been saying that this program is ABOVE REPROACH, and that any complaints are entirely due to the participants and not the program. THAT's where your posts-and others-have gone. To claim NOW that you're saying that some normal people even CAN be harmed by this program would represent a CHANGE in your posts-and I don't even see you saying that NOW. Are you aware that some perfectly-healthy people have been strongarmed into taking this program, and have been harmed by it? Or is your position that those who have been harmed were already damaged, and the program is STILL fine?]

I can't name the artist, so if this one depended on me, the odds would be very slim I could give the correct answer....

I disagree with you about regrets at the Bema, but if you want to discuss it, we can open a thread in the Doctrinal forum and not derail this one. I agree with you here. It's up to God, and to the individual Christians in question.