WordWolf

"Oh is there concrete all around, Or is it in my head?"

"Ssssh!" "What was that?" "SSSSHHHH!" "Good plan."

Hello. This thread will probably be moved to the DOCTRINAL forum, because that's where we discuss DOCTRINE. In fact, there's already some older threads on this subject there already. Here's a link to one. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=8105 BTW, here's some advice for new arrivals here... http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=7913

You've already sat in judgement on those who've examined direct testimony. Actually, we have testimony from some of those who came forth and admitted they knew thiswas going on, and they buried it, as well. There's a complete picture painted here. The physical evidence shows that vpw had arranged for places to meet women privately. There are people who say they're aware vpw was cheating on his wife with young believers, which by itself was an abuse of his office and trust, even had that all been consentual. We have people who've said they've encountered women right after they claimed they were raped by vpw or that vpw seemed ready to rape them. We have people who are aware of the "exit counselors" and the network covering vpw's tracks. We have victim accounts-all of which harmonize- that they were told similar or identical raps. We have victim testimony that vpw had their "From Birth to the Corps" paper in their hand, and he claimed their past sexual trauma could be healed by sex from a real man of God, as he put his moves on them. We have victim testimony that some were drugged into unconsciousness, which skips a few steps there. We have eyewitness testimony that vpw had sent for someone, and when that woman arrived, he was completely unclothed. And-unless you are ready to call Jim D. a liar, we have a witness who said that all the way back at the House of Acts, vpw was interested in what orgies were like, and vpw volunteered that they were permitted by God Almighty, complete with the verse used to permit it. Now, if we had all this in a court of law, the civil case would be a breeze, and I think a criminal suit-with its higher criteria for a conviction- would be a strong enough case that vpw would be desperate to get out of it. The combination of "the lockbox" (vpw had a doctrine he taught his cadre that instilled a code of silence-complete with a NAME), his well-crafted public image, his well-crafted and well-orchestrated criminal enterprise (I mean the components of his rape machine, from before to after), and the lack of communication before the internet, allowed vpw a "freedom" he would not have today. lcm was caught because A) he didn't have as well-crafted a public image, so he could be questioned B) he thought he wasn't doing wrong, so he didn't orchestrate so well to cover his tracks C) communication after 1985 has improved drastically over the years, allowing witnesses and victims to communicate vpw knew he did wrong, and did everything possible to cover his tracks short of murder, but even what he did, if done during the internet age, would have eventually been caught. On 9/11, many people saw the planes hit, and the buildings damaged and collapsed. Many people only know about this from video footage and news reports. So, some claim it happened, and some saw no signs of it on their own. That's why you even have some people to this day who claim there were no planes. (I know someone who saw one plane hit, and told me ON 9/11.) Testimony that some people didn't see something is not considered "proof it didn't happen" by any reputable investigator, attorney or judge. And if vpw was still alive, and insisted he was completely innocent and is being framed, would you say "Well, that's it, he's being framed", and turn away? I'll save you some time-he never admitted to anything, not even a lie when caught with proof he lied- he always went to the next lie in line. So, he'd SAY "I'm innocent, they're lying, I didn't do it." The prisons of the US are FULL of people who claim they're 100% innocent, even with overwhelming evidence they did it. Death Row's got people who swear they didn't do it. There's criminals who say they didn't do it when videotaped evidence shows them doing it. Asking vpw would tell us little. When he was alive, he silenced critics before they had a chance to speak. That's clever, effective, efficient, and shows PREMEDITATION and AWARENESS THAT HE WAS DOING WRONG. We know full well how he responded when alive. He did such a good job that people to this day can face his victims and say "You're lying." Did Jesus pay the price for vpw's sins? Yes, and that's STILL a non-issue, unless you're saying what he did was completely excusable.

Incorrect. They would be called eyewitness accounts and witness testimony. This is considered superior evidence to all other forms, which legally are considered circumstantial. Any attorney could tell you he could make or break any case based on the eyewitness testimony. All the circumstantial evidence in the world can't beat enough eyewitness testimony. However, when he WAS alive, he had a circle of people who appear to have contrived to set up women to meet him alone, a PLACE to meet them alone- with a bed, people to "exit counsel" them and see if they looked like they'd talk to someone like the police, and when women looked like they WOULD talk, they were rushed off-grounds and everyone was told they were "possessed" and not to talk to them. Before the internet, it was a LOT harder to tell your story. Plus, vpw had succeeded in making a public image that lent credibility to anything he said, and he cashed in that currency when he said to ignore them. This is why I address people in public here. There's less "he-said, she-said" involved. Ah, it sounded like you were claiming there WAS no abuse.Which was it? Non-issue, if it means supposed leaders get a free pass and carte blanche to rape, drug, or otherwise abuse anyone for whom Christ died.

It's after their time. "SOWING THE SEEDS OF LOVE," by Tears for Fears. One of the bands named after a therapeutic technique.

I'm thinking it's Neville. You're forgetting that the last chapter of the last book- like the first chapter of the first book- is separated by time. The last chapter will show us the survivors years later. That's plenty of time for either student to return as a teacher, or for Harry to be elected Minister of Magic, and especially to raise a family with Ginny. Unless we're looking thru the Veil and Arch into an entirely different land: the Deathly Hallows. And Voldemort followed him through. Which, BTW, was one scenario I suspected.

Hm. I was WONDERING if it was.... but that's got to be "GREASE"! "GREASE" is the word!

It's called "MASKS", and yes it is. For some reason, I have a lot of trouble keeping interest whenever it airs. But it's your turn.

"I want you to start a new piece... I'd like you to sculpt... music." "Music? Counselor. Music is a collection of acoustic vibrations. How can I reproduce a sound with clay?" "Think of the effects that sounds have on people... the images that music brings to your mind... then give them a form." "Worf said he's going to be teaching us some Mok'bara throwing techniques today." "More like falling techniques...the last time we did that I was sore for a week." "What's this?" "I have no idea." "Maybe Will left it here... a little present?" "It's not quite his style." "Then maybe you've got a secret admirer." "They must be changing the snacks around here." "I don't recognize it. " "Well, whatever you do, don't put it in your mouth...... ....This is terrible." "I like it." "Then you can have it.. but it's not what I ordered." "Let's see what they're trying to 'poison you' with... Wait a minute... this stuff is bio-organic... there are oxygenated cells... serum electrolytes... This looks like some kind of... blood." "You're joking." "I'm serious." "I'm gonna have a little talk with the bartender." "It might not be his fault. We should check out the replicator." "If this really is an archive from some ancient civilization, we should allow it to do so. But we must be careful..." "This 'library' seems designed to do far more than simply store information. Who knows how much we could learn from it?" "I've seen these things all over the ship. They all look the same... primitive and non-functional." "Ceremonial... and deceptively primitive. Only an advanced technological culture could have built that object out there. These artifacts must have played a ritualistic role in their society." "Masaka is waking." " I'm not "Masaka", Captain...I am Ihat."

"I want you to start a new piece... I'd like you to sculpt... music." "Music? Counselor. Music is a collection of acoustic vibrations. How can I reproduce a sound with clay?" "Think of the effects that sounds have on people... the images that music brings to your mind... then give them a form." "Worf said he's going to be teaching us some Mok'bara throwing techniques today." "More like falling techniques...the last time we did that I was sore for a week." "What's this?" "I have no idea." "Maybe Will left it here... a little present?" "It's not quite his style." "Then maybe you've got a secret admirer." "They must be changing the snacks around here." "I don't recognize it. " "Well, whatever you do, don't put it in your mouth...... ....This is terrible." "I like it." "Then you can have it.. but it's not what I ordered." "Let's see what they're trying to 'poison you' with... Wait a minute... this stuff is bio-organic... there are oxygenated cells... serum electrolytes... This looks like some kind of... blood." "You're joking." "I'm serious." "I'm gonna have a little talk with the bartender." "It might not be his fault. We should check out the replicator." "If this really is an archive from some ancient civilization, we should allow it to do so. But we must be careful..." "This 'library' seems designed to do far more than simply store information. Who knows how much we could learn from it?"

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories....9646&EDATE= "NEW YORK, March 20 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Scholastic Inc., the global children's publishing and media company, announced today that all 12 million copies of the U.S. edition of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows will be printed on paper that contains a minimum of 30% post-consumer waste (pcw) fiber. Moreover, 65% of the 16,700 tons of paper used in the U.S. first printing will be certified by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), the global standard-setter for responsible forest management. This historic commitment is the largest purchase of FSC certified paper to be used in the printing of a single book title. In addition, the company announced that the deluxe edition of the book (100,000 copies) will be printed on text paper that is FSC certified and contains 100% post-consumer waste fiber. All jackets will be FSC certified and contain 30% post consumer waste and will be manufactured using energy generated from wind power. For future printings of all books in the Harry Potter series, Scholastic plans to use paper with a minimum content of 30% pcw, and that is FSC certified when available. The vast amount of paper needed to print 12 million copies of the 784-page Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows makes the decision by Scholastic to invest in environmentally preferable paper a significant step in the company's ongoing commitment to responsible environmental stewardship. " That's 784 pages for Book 7.

Orange Book, pg-29-31. ========= "Whenever I read this record from Mark 3, it reminds me of the times I was practicing the principles of the greatness of God's Word in other countries of the world. On one occasion when I was teaching in Jubbulpore, India, a lady who had worked in a mission service for thirty years was delivered by God's power of a number of sicknesses which appeared incurable. This deliverance caused such a stir in the city of Jubbulpore the morning after the miracle occurred, that when my family and I were ready to board the train and leave Jubbulpore, hundreds of people gathered at the railroad depot. This crowd, which was composed mainly of Hindus, wanted me to lay my hands on them individually because they thought that I must have some special powers in my hands since I had laid my hands on the woman the previous day." So, we have vpw himself praying for the woman, and she was delivered. Within 24 hours, there was a crowd looking for healing. And they were non-believers, Hindus, who all just happened to hear about this, and believed it such that they showed up in a crowd. Could have happened. Presuming he prayed and she was delivered. "They felt that if I just laid my hands on them, they too would be delivered." I'm unsure of Hindu beliefs in India enough to know if this is typical. "Just before the train on which we were traveling moved out of the depot, a high-caste Hindu, whose paralyzed arm was hanging limp at his side, ran up to our railroad compartment. He said to me, "Will you pray for my arm?" However, he immediately added, "But I do not believe in your Jesus." " Supposing this is true, there was a crowd, and the majority of the people would have been low-caste. The high-caste guy was willing to shove his way through a crowd of low-caste people, and thus being in physical contact with them, to shove through them and get to the front of the group, on the chance that this guy could help him. Forgive me, I can't picture this guy having the strength to shove through-unless he could use both arms. "What would you have done? I asked him if he believed God would deliver him. He said, "I believe that God will heal me if you pray for me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." So again I asked him, "Do you believe God will set you free?" And he said, "I believe God will heal me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." I laid my hands on him, and I prayed that God would set him free in the name of Jesus Christ. When I finished I said to him, "Now lift your arm." He began to put it up, and suddenly he thrust up both of his arms. He leaped and shouted with tears streaming down his face. Once he had lifted his arm a little, he realized the miracle. He was totally set free. About then the train began moving, and I said, "Praise God; thank God that you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ." " So, God was fine with this healing. And it was instant. And vpw was preaching from the back of the train. And allowed to stand there-WITH A CROWD SURROUNDING THE BACK OF THE TRAIN- while the train prepared to move. And he was allowed to be in physical contact with someone on the ground as the train is moving forward. I just don't think the trains in India are run that badly. It's too cinematic. The only thing we're missing is the train whistle and sunlight breaking out from the clouds. "At the next stop, a man came to our compartment in the train, saying that he was representing his master who wanted to come and meet the man of God. He said his master was so-and-so, a member of Parliament in New Delhi, who was also riding on the train. The member of Parliament then came to our compartment to tell Mrs Wierwille and me that what he had seen in Jubbulpore was the most tremendous Christian event that he had ever witnessed- that a man of God would bless all God's people irrespective of whether they were Christian or Hindu. He offered us the keys to his city and said that any time we wanted to minister in India, the doors of India and the Far East would be open to us to teach the accuracy and the greatness of God's Word. " And a guy in the train was able to see what happened completely in the back of the train, with his own eyes. And had influence in ALL OF INDIA. And gave vpw a standing invitation to come minister and teach in ALL OF INDIA. And gave him the keys to New Delhi based entirely on an incident NOT in New Delhi. And vpw remembered all this, but never followed up in India despite having an open door. This sounds scripted to me. And not scripted WELL, either. The only hitch is the existence of some photos I've never seen, which depict an incident I've never heard described well.

Orange Book, pg-29-31. ========= Whenever I read this record from Mark 3, it reminds me of the times I was practicing the principles of the greatness of God's Word in other countries of the world. On one occasion when I was teaching in Jubbulpore, India, a lady who had worked in a mission service for thirty years was delivered by God's power of a number of sicknesses which appeared incurable. This deliverance caused such a stir in the city of Jubbulpore the morning after the miracle occurred, that when my family and I were ready to board the train and leave Jubbulpore, hundreds of people gathered at the railroad depot. This crowd, which was composed mainly of Hindus, wanted me to lay my hands on them individually because they thought that I must have some special powers in my hands since I had laid my hands on the woman the previous day. They felt that if I just laid my hands on them, they too would be delivered. Just before the train on which we were travelling moved out of the depot, a high-caste Hindu, whose paralyzed arm was hanging limp at his side, ran up to our railroad compartment. He said to me, "Will you pray for my arm?" However, he immediately added, "But I do not believe in your Jesus." What would you have done? I asked him if he believed God would deliver him. He said, "I believe that God will heal me if you pray for me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." So again I asked him, "Do you believe God will set you free?" And he said, "I believe God will heal me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." I laid my hands on him, and I prayed that God would set him free in the name of Jesus Christ. When I finished I said to him, "Now lift your arm." He began to put it up, and suddenly he thrust up both of his arms. He leaped and shouted with tears streaming down his face. Once he had lifted his arm a little, he realized the miracle. He was totally set free. About then the train began moving, and I said, "Praise God; thank God that you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ." At the next stop, a man came to our compartment in the train, saying that he was representing his master who wanted to come and meet the man of God. He said his master was so-and-so, a member of Parliament in New Delhi, who was also riding on the train. The member of Parliament then came to our compartment to tell Mrs Wierwille and me that what he had seen in Jubbulpore was the most tremendous Christian event that he had ever witnessed- that a man of God would bless all God's people irrespective of whether they were Christian or Hindu. He offered us the keys to his city and said that any time we wanted to minister in India, the doors of India and the Far East would be open to us to teach the accuracy and the greatness of God's Word. ===============

Let's see. What happened now. http://www.time.com/time/business/article/...1601131,00.html "Procter & Gamble Co. has won a jury award of $19.25 million in a civil lawsuit filed against four former Amway distributors accused of spreading false rumors linking the company to Satanism to advance their own business." etc. (Read either link for the whole story.) Of course, the thing was an urban legend from the beginning. http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/procter.asp And a lot of urban legends concerning Satanism, One World Order, occultism, and all sorts of related things were passed along as part of the curriculum. I'm fairly certain twi passed this one along, too.

Why do the posters at the GSC tell the stories they do- stories about vpw, twi, and so on, and Momentus, ces/stfi and so on?

I'm not asking "how do we define 'grossly unfit'?" Suppose we're hearing about a leader in a Christian organization. He could have embezzled the funds, visited prostitutes, raped and murdered his congregation, (adults, teens or children) all of the above, or other things I didn't mention. Once determining he/she is unfit, what should be done? Forgive him and leave him in office? Remove him from office?

That's why I try to confine myself to songs released before 1986. Very few people here have even HEARD songs that rhyme with "umpty." (They were unable to identify Fiona Apple's hit "Criminal", so I've adjusted my expectations.) Please re-select and post again.

"I want you to start a new piece... I'd like you to sculpt... music." "Music? Counselor. Music is a collection of acoustic vibrations. How can I reproduce a sound with clay?" "Think of the effects that sounds have on people... the images that music brings to your mind... then give them a form." "Worf said he's going to be teaching us some Mok'bara throwing techniques today." "More like falling techniques...the last time we did that I was sore for a week." "What's this?" "I have no idea." "Maybe Will left it here... a little present?" "It's not quite his style." "Then maybe you've got a secret admirer." "They must be changing the snacks around here." "I don't recognize it. " "Well, whatever you do, don't put it in your mouth...... ....This is terrible." "I like it." "Then you can have it.. but it's not what I ordered." "Let's see what they're trying to 'poison you' with... Wait a minute... this stuff is bio-organic... there are oxygenated cells... serum electrolytes... This looks like some kind of... blood." "You're joking." "I'm serious." "I'm gonna have a little talk with the bartender." "It might not be his fault. We should check out the replicator."

Correct. Your hunch is 1/2 right.

Harry's family, well, the tail wagged the dog here. JKR needed his family gone, so, they died from some normal reason like illness. James Potter's parents were on a bit in years before he was born, and he was an only child, so he got all their money. As to Ron's family, I think you're right about there being not enough time to include EVERYTHING. Besides, it is not their story. There's a lot that we might want to see that's not in there. (Like the US. Other than a sentence in Book 4, and a few teams in "Quidditch Through the Ages", the US is outside the scope of the series.)

On the one hand, yes, Ollivander gave specifics as to the wand and the wizard. On the other hand, we've seen wands swapped, and the users seemed to do just fine. The jury's out on that one. Trevor, though, has been labouring under SOMETHING. There's been speculations that-like Bertha Jorkins (mentioned in Book 4) and Percy's boss (in Book 4), he's been fiddled with magickally, and that's why his memory leaks like a sieve in the early books. (See also the Muggle who runs the campsite for the Quidditch World Cup, also in Book 4.) Like Merope, he has been bullied (by Snape, if no one else.) He's also had Gran waiting for him to become the next Merlin. That's enough for "performance anxiety" right there. He first started to come into his own with the DA's sessions in Book 5. There's more to be seen from him in Book 7, I'd say...

"I want you to start a new piece... I'd like you to sculpt... music." "Music? Counselor. Music is a collection of acoustic vibrations. How can I reproduce a sound with clay?" "Think of the effects that sounds have on people... the images that music brings to your mind... then give them a form." "Worf said he's going to be teaching us some Mok'bara throwing techniques today." "More like falling techniques...the last time we did that I was sore for a week." "What's this?" "I have no idea." "Maybe Will left it here... a little present?" "It's not quite his style." "Then maybe you've got a secret admirer."

Oh. THAT one. I never saw it.... Just how many movies had those two acting in it, BTW?