WordWolf

"A what?" "Certainly you know what a 'headache' is, Doctor." "Of course. But I don't often encounter one." (Personally, I think that's bs, since Geordi REGULARLY got headaches due to his 'VISOR' interface. Also, 1000 people on the ship, and NOBODY complains of headaches? C'mon....) "What are these Ferengi up to? 'Stand by, Enterprise.' Stand by for what?" "It may be true that headaches were once quite common... but this was in the days before the brain was charted... ... before we understood the nature of pain... when we were suffering from such things as the common cold." (Personally, I think that's bs, since we've seen characters GET colds, including Wesley. But this script suggests otherwise. Somebody's overly optimistic about the future....)

Actually, one amazing thing I found, when I was REQUESTING personal accounts of each of the ex-twi presidents (including rfr), was that some people did have pleasant recollections of vpw, at least some of the time, and some people did have pleasant recollections of lcm, at least some of the time, but NOBODY had a single positive memory of rfr to add to the discussions. EVERYBODY who interacted with her personally had bad things to say about her, without a single exception to toss into the mix. Of course, those who know anything about her would need to be limited to staff/ex-staff, and those "in" from about 2000 on. Most posters dont fit in either category, and not everyone who does has something to recall about her. Me, I'm waiting for the announcement that she's received twi's standard treatment- that is, that she's been kicked out with no means of support because she's too old to be of use. It's gone around; I'm waiting for it to come around....

I agree- plagiarized error is no less error than the original error, and who plagiarizes it doesn't make it any LESS error. So, it was error when Kenyon taught it, it was error when vpw plagiarized Kenyon, it was error when Hinn plagiarized Kenyon, and so on. Hagin HAS had no formal theological training. He has not even received a Bachelors or Masters inTheology, let alone any formal study of Bible languages or history. I also agree trying to absolve plagiarism-and claim accuracy- by clever words and lying about their BEING plagiarism in no way absolves plagiarism, neither does it prove accuracy. Even if a lot of people taught the same thing as Hinn, a lot of people can be wrong. "Vox populi" is not a God-given measure of truth. I think gnosticism has remained around and was still around before Kenyon spread his version of it as the precursor to the Word-Faith movement. Further, the feel-good aspect of it for the wealthy and the financially-affluent - "if I am successful, it is because I earned it through my faith and positive believing, and those who suffer earned their suffering through their doubt, fear and negative believing"- make it appealing to those who have the microphone. That's why it was such an easy sell for Oprah, for example. I don't know about it "taking over", though, I think that overstates the case. No, they exist anywhere someone has a faulty doctorate and plagiarizes and so on.Skipping the real work and lying were hardly invented by vpw, nor did he own a charter on the process of swindling under the flag of God. Some people still do it now. In other words, "if you're successful, people will accuse you of plagiarism, lying about your credentials, and other wrong things." I disagree. I find that a smokescreen to excuse the actuality of plagiarism, lying about credentials, and other wrong things. Those are wrong whether or not a man catches you, and even if I like the person who did them.

Hmmm........ ============ "Benny Hinn was born in 1953 in Israel to a Greek father and an Armenian mother. He was raised in the Greek Orthodox [false] religion. Hinn claims that while he was a young boy of 11 years of age in Israel, God first appeared to him, and has been appearing to him ever since. At the age of 14, Hinn moved to Canada with his parents. While attending high school there, he says he had visions of himself preaching before huge crowds. He also claims that God healed him of a stuttering problem so that he could become a preacher. Yet in spite of the visions and God's appearing to him for several years, Hinn marks the year of his being born again as 1972 when he was about 20 years old. It was at a Kathryn Kuhlman service the following year that he says he had a "profound spiritual experience." Hinn readily admits that much of the misunderstanding that has arisen from his teachings is the result of his lack of formal Bible training. In fact, almost immediately after his having been "born again," Hinn says, "The Lord launched me into ministry almost overnight." "Although Hinn states that his ministry throughout the 1970s was shaped by the writings of men like D.L. Moody and R.A. Torrey, he was a strong proponent of "revelation knowledge" -- new truths revealed to him by God directly -- that were not contained within Scripture. Only recently has he stated that he will no longer claim revelation knowledge as the authority for his teachings. [see the end of this report of Hinn once again claiming revelation knowledge]." ============= Sounds vaguely familiar.... For those who missed the similarities I saw, they are, in order... A) a claim to have been marked out for God at a young age. B) a claim of a special vision for God- which completely failed to transform his life and ministry C) lack of formal Bible training, but God supposedly selected HIM D) a claim to have received direct revelation not contained in Scripture

"Five Steps in Action form 1.Ask without fear, knowing that God said you would receive His Holy Spirit. 2.Speak no more English. 3.Come unto Jesus. Open your mouth wide and drink in the Holy Spirit, breathing in as deeply as possible. You are to know that at this moment you receive the Holy Spirit by faith. As you breathe in, you are being filled with the Spirit. " (this is an occult technique in which the prana energy fills the air, nowhere does Scripture tell one to do this to receive the Holy Spirit ,who already lives inside all the believers. While I believe in a continual filling as the Scripture teaches, this is not what they are describing.1 Cor.12:13 "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit." What Spirit than are they receiving if they breathe him in.) [it needs to further be pointed out that this also is found in Oneness Pentecostalism. In J.E.Stiles booklet " Why receive the Holy Spirit and how to receive him" on p.21 states "Now as you open your mouth, and breath in, don't pray, don't talk don't say a single word, just breathe in deeply... If you will sit quietly for a time...just breathing in the breath of God, you certainly will feel a moving of the Spirit.. Just lift your voice and speak the sounds that seem easy to make,...After you have spoken for considerable time, stop and breathe deeply again and you will get a a fresh anointing.] 4."Raise your voice. Use your lips, tongue, and voice to speak out the praise in an unknown language as the Spirit gives you the utterance. [Recently at John Hagee's Church Kenneth Copeland spoke explaining how his wife got filled with the Spirit "And the church Gloria came from, dear God. She was raised in a little church out in the country, they didn’t have a pastor half the time. Didn’t believe anything. She’d been saved and filled with the Holy Ghost 3 months before she ever heard the word new birth. She did not know what it was! "(Aug 18,1999 Hagess program on TBN) How is this possible in light of her booklet instructing others to be filled a certain way by asking specifically and breathing the Spirit it in. This shows these people are confused. 5.Allow the rivers of living water to flow from you with the greatest of freedom. You are magnifying God-extolling (praising enthusiastically) the Father God who is Love and offering up the praise of thanksgiving unto Him. 'Now that you have received the Holy Spirit, rely on the Word that Jesus spoke, "He shall remain with you forever." (note: He will remain with you forever long before you did all this, if you received Christ the way the Bible teaches. She goes on to say Jesus said the holy Spirit would be given to teach you, not just some things, but ALL the truth." =============== I'm dubious about the leap they make about "prana energy." I think Stiles' error was more about garbling his explanation rather than streamlining it. (Eventually, vpw managed to streamline it from this version here.) One irony with un-plagiarized material is that often someone doesn't try to improve on the 1.0 version of an explanation, which means it could be explained better, and the current form can lead to misunderstandings. However, I do think this all shows Kenyon AND Stiles were both ripped off by more than just vpw.

I've come to much the same conclusions. Most of these people ripped off Kenyon's doctrines, and formed the "Word-Faith" movement, usually while pretending Kenyon never existed. That conclusion's pretty common around here, BTW, or at least not UNcommon.

"A what?" "Certainly you know what a 'headache' is, Doctor." "Of course. But I don't often encounter one."

I think some leaders (vpw was one) are less than keen about encouraging a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ- because that takes away from their own unstated goal to be lord INSTEAD. Heck, my own reluctance to do so might have a lot to do with my own thoughts about being "lord".....

No, you were trying to push an agenda and a point-of-view, including "facts" that have been disproven already here-but you haven't taken the time to learn that. And this "malice and hatred" thing is an exaggeration. What I am is bored more than anything. And any negative emotion is not towards a poster- just towards his or her lies and deceptive doctrine. "Try to get answers?" No, you would have read enough to get some learning by now. "Try to invent answers" would be more like it.

Sounds like the Original Series. Is this "Who Mourns for Adonais?"

Kurt Russell Big Trouble in Little China Kim Cattrall

I always found twi's definition to be soulless and convey no understanding, even without "in the household" added. The definition I used worked with what I found in the Bible. Agape is the Love of God, or the Love from God, either demonstrated by God Himself or someone else as made available by God. That's how I called it. "Agape is the Love of God, or the Love from God."

I started right after vpw left also. I left right after lcm demanded his oath of loyalty. I knew there were problems, but I grossly underestimated them, and figured that private conversations among the top echelon (Regional Directors, Limb Coordinators, etc) would be enough to fix lcm. (I missed the "fog" entirely during the fog years.) Right after I actually said that to someone, lcm sent out a letter. It said, in effect, "We're firing all the staff in your state because they've turned from serving God to serving their own lusts." Now, I may not have been the sharpest tool in the shed, but I could vouch for people I'd spent a lot of time with, and seen when the masks come off, and I'd seen some of the other people on the list, and at least one had achieved the status of a local legend. I knew THEY weren't anything like the letter said, and most of the people I had heard in leadership positions and respected were all placed in the same category. I found it difficult to accept that they were SECRETLY evil, only on the word of a man who didn't interact with them regularly, and was having trouble tracking properly. So, I went off to ROA '89, after a lot of people walked. 1/5 the attendance of ROA '88 were there. Most of the people who'd made THAT one rock were not at ROA '89. Many of those who WERE at ROA '89 were making their goodbyes- at least among those I'd met and interacted with. Many were like myself- there to look at things for myself so I could form an informed opinion. (And attempt to buy out the bookstore, foolishly ignorant of how much of its contents were available commercially.) By the end of the week, it was obvious that A) most of the talent had either walked or been fired B) the thought police were monitoring conversations- and one jumped into a conversation and confirmed that minutes after I claimed that the upcoming conversation would be monitored- inadvertently confirming my claims to a total stranger who now realized things were worse than he's imagined C) events were orchestrated to SIMULATE the things I valued, while missing the mark of SUBSTANCE. The only exception was the Afternoon (nee Teen) Stage- which, naturally, lcm ended soon after, eliminating the last substance the ROAs had left. In short, just going from lcm's statements and direct observation at the ROA, I was able to prove to my own satisfaction that the situation on-grounds was wrong and unable to be fixed. That's independent of the positive examples I'd seen from the people who were canned because they wouldn't swear allegiance to lcm. And when I scrutinized THEM in detail, I wasn't able to find problems like I could find with lcm- and I looked VERY HARD. Were they without problems? No- but they were a LOT harder to find, and I was unable to find them when I was looking. Mind you, if I found THEM just as damaged, I would have walked away from ALL of them and seen what other Christians had to offer. (A few years earlier than I did, I mean.) The availability of what I perceived to be competent Christians at my local area made it a lot easier for me to leave. Basically, almost the entire structure of "the ministry" in my area was still intact- just not working for lcm anymore.

I'm proud to have made this link work.... Kareem Abdul Jabbar Enter the Dragon Chuck Norris If I could think of anything non- Bruce Lee flick that Bruce Lee starred in, I would have linked to him instead...

Check your own sentences- you went from "It was the FEAR-in the HEART-of that mother- that killed her child" to "the fear the mother had which CONTRIBUTED to the death of her child". Perhaps you did that unconsciously, but don't try to shift the blame like that. vpw said the sole cause of the child's death was the fear of his mother. Therefore, he said the mother killed the child, and the murder weapon was her fear. "It wasn't HER, it was her FEAR." Yeah, and it wasn't the crazy man, but the bullets from his gun that killed those kids in Virginia Tech, and bombs don't kill people- but the EXPLOSIONS do. If you can't see how silly it is to try to say vpw didn't say she killed her child via her fear, you're in the extreme minority. Lots of us got that the FIRST time thru pfal, and there's been posters who posted about mothers who became fearful of damaging their own children via their thoughts as a direct result of sitting thru Session 1. And if you still believe the LAW of Believing kills people and deflects crashes like in Session 1, that is NOT my fault. And he was wrong TWICE. Medicine shows that having a positive attitude contributes to good health, in that being depressed can weaken the responses of the immune system. No COMPETENT medical source has ever claimed that even 70% of health, let alone diseases, are rooted in anything psychosomatic, let alone "SPIRITUAL." (How many medical sources USE the word "spiritual", for that matter?) And the Bible does NOT indicate that MOST material manifestation is the result of our spiritual attitude, let alone ALL. If that was really true, all the most ardent vpw worshippers would have hit the Powerball lottery or cleaned up at Las Vegas at Slots by now. Your presumed spiritual attitude would have manifested bags of material wealth for you. What the Bible ACTUALLY says is that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. What vpw did was blame anyone who suffered for being in the position of suffering, since they were supposedly the ones who could determine their circumstances. Didn't waste any time putting the blame BACK on the imaginary mother, did you?vpw couldn't possibly have been blowing smoke up our keisters, so there must be some way to completely reinterpret what he said, adding special conditionals that completely redirect from his emphatic "GOD WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE" to keep you from suffering consequences you fear. If your conscience is fine with that, that's your business. I would agree, but the yelling is tacky. lcm in particular was famous for making claims to the effect that God wouldn't do anything for you if you didn't tithe. (Specifically, he talked about God spitting.)

There's a saying, popular on the Snopes boards (no, I don't post there), that "The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'."

the Rocketeer Bill Campbell "Bram Stoker's" Dracula

Wasway got it- Lou Gramm's "Say Hello to the Night (Lost in the Shadows)", off the Lost Boys soundtrack. You posted Wasway's answer-correctly. Therefore, it is George's turn.

Ok, just saw this movie recently, and she was in it, playing herself at the Academy Awards... Naked Gun 33 1/3 Weird Al Yankovic UHF

It was one of the best rock soundtracks ever recorded, IMHO. (Although Lou Gramm hardly did the ENTIRE album...)

1. Head south on Congress St toward Quaker Ln 0.1 mi 2. Turn left at Milk St 0.3 mi 3. Continue on Central St 0.1 mi 4. Turn right at Long Wharf 0.1 mi 5. Swim across the Atlantic Ocean 3,462 mi 29 days 0 hours 6. Slight right at E05 0.5 mi 7. At the traffic circle, take the 2nd exit onto E05/Pont Vauban 0.1 mi 8. Turn right at E05 5.7 mi 9. Take the exit onto A29/E44 toward Amiens Toll road 27.8 mi 10. Take the exit toward Dieppe/Amiens/Calais/A151/Rouen Toll road 1.1 mi 11. Merge onto A29/E44 Toll road 22.6 mi etc.... Just wanted to save time for the people who didn't want to wait for the download..

NomoreKoolaid

Also notice the "examples" used to "prove" that this fear-thing supposedly worked, and the believing-thing supposedly worked did NOT come from verifiable sources, but rather from ANONYMOUS ANECDOTES, nothing we can prove ACTUALLY HAPPENED, but we are meant to believe them ENTIRELY. Examples: A mother kills the child through her fears. (Every day, LOTS of mothers fear for their children's safety, and every day, LOTS of mothers see their children home safely.) A man begins to get a crippling paranoia he will become a car-crash statistic as he drives, but after a pep-talk, he returns to being a safe driver. (Ok, this one is possible, but hardly a "law"- it's more how someone can cause a self-fulfilling prophecy, or follow a pep-talk.) A pair of men sit in a room and focus their minds on their goal- which then shows up and makes itself known to them, all as the result of their sitting in the room and focusing. They become rich philanthropists, but nobody likes them despite their charitable contributions. (And yet we can't FIND a record of them- is it possible they never existed?) BTW, this story is in TW:LiL and made a big impact on lcm, as he himself recorded in his own book, "vp and me". Funny how he took all sorts of photos of all sorts of things, but we he never went back to that woman and said "Can I get a photo of those drapes for my scrapbook?" despite using it as an illustration for years, and supposedly he was one of the main participants in that story.

"One must hide when the sun gets higher. I___don't____know____what____this____ mad-ness____means." But I, I keep moving on Till the darkest thought makes me want___to___try___these___wings"